Well the earth is the setting for hell after judgment, and will burn out after the new earth and heaven is made. Also Jesus said that no one has been to heaven but the son.
Do Babies Go To Heaven When They Die?
- Thread starter Aenon
- Start date
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
You're going to have to give actual scripture references if you want your argument to be valid.
I allready posted it i was late.
Yes, and at the time this was spoken, it was BEFORE the resurrection. That is already over. People are in heaven now. Before that, they were in the heart of the earth/paradise/abraham's bosom. Also, how do you reconcile this verse with verses like 2 Kings 2:1?
I was only saying of what i know about what i believe. I could not know what you believe, but what you ask me to show you i learned over years. I dont think i can prove my argument in a matter of minutes or hours of posting. Sorry but i have to leave it alone for now. What you hold dear to and your understanding of truth does not need to match up with mine.
Godbless and be at peace.
Godbless and be at peace.
While I understand your comments and actually your thinking.......we must be careful to understand the Scriptures if we use them as the basis of our understanding.
You stated in comment #62,
"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. (John 3:13).
One must understand the context of every verse and in this case, John 3:13 is the answer to those who today feel that Elijah and Enoch went to heaven when translated. UP TO THE POINT IN THE NEW TEST., no one had gone to heaven confirming John 3:13. The Old Test. saints went to the Paradise side of Abraham's bossom in Luke 16.
Then when Christ assended to heaven( Acts and Ephesians 4) He took those Old. Test. saints who were in Paradise to heaven with Him. So NOW, today, in the age of grace, the church age....believers of Christ who die, go straight to heaven.
2 Corth. 5:8 confirms this..........
"To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord". But when Jesus was here, no other man had up to that point assended to "heaven".
I encourage you to re-think that idea. I do not know of any Bible verses which give an absolute location of the Lake of Fire. I am aware of some which will cause us to have an idea, like maybe Sodom & Gomorrah and even the Dead Sea, but they are not definate.
It seems to me that this is one of those things we are simply not supposed to know.
Agreed with Aenon!
Hell does not exist yet?????
Hebrew........."SHAOL".
Greek..........."HADES".
Luke 16:23......
"And in HELL, he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham a far off, and Lazarus in his bosom".
And that is why you are here, to discuss and learn. Patience and forgiveness is needed with so many posters...including myself....humble thoughts humble thoughts humble thoughts....
I encourage you to use common sense!!! You will find scripture ties up 100% with logical thought.
On heaven for example. There was no atonement yet for sins. The moment Jesus died and was resurrected all those in Abraham's bosom and all those that die in Christ now qualify by His blood to go straight to the very presence of God in heaven. Regarding John 3:13 note that Jesus said that at the time that He had not yet died for our sins.
My
You are implying that Lazarus's opinion / desire / will to be rasied from the dead was zero? Jesus ''forced'' Himself upon Lazarus?
This also makes no sense. You are implying that while we have free will hatred, Christ regenerates our stony hearts? If I am putting words in your mouth please say so and rephrase this. If this is what you mean, then I disagree 100%. The bible is quite clear that WE have to accept Jesus from free will before any regeneration takes place. If we hate Him, we cannot accept Him.
You said that ''God is not a respecter'' and then ''God's electing had nothing to do with the people themselves, but only God's grace''. How can God's electing of people have nothing to do with people? But only grace? So God does NOT have grace on those going to hell?
Would you mind clarifying your understanding of election?
No, God was not wrong. God knows and sees the full picture, we do not. Death for all is inevitable. God would only be guilty of being evil / dumb if He sent a baby to hell. God is not dumb or evil.
You don't believe in paradise and heaven? Either way doesnt matter. All babies go to heaven when they die. That really is not up for debate or my opinion
I think the real issue is that many can't see babies growing up and going to hell if they have been in heaven. I wonder why that is when those living in the millennium will clearly live with the physical presence of Jesus and us saints, yet when they are tempted by the devil and rebel against God, they will go to hell.
Thanks for clearing that up. For a second there I thought you were implying babies go to hell. And yes I do believe in heaven.
Check out the passion of Jesus towards children.
Mat_18:6
but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mar_9:42
"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
Luk_17:2
It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.
Mat_18:6
but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mar_9:42
"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
Luk_17:2
It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.
If we are all reserrected together how can some be in heaven. If our love ones are in heaven now then they are allready reserrected.
You must have missed my first post then. I am asking paradise and heaven.........you stated quite clearly that you do believe in heaven....why would I ask that......
We need to distinguish between going to heaven and the physical resurrection when Christ returns.
This will be my last post. I say that people do not go to heaven when they die because the scriptures say we sleep after we die, awating reserrection.
Job 14:12
so he lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, people will not awake or be roused from their sleep.
And
Daniel 12:2
New International Version (NIV)
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Also 1 corinthians 15 :20-23 and verses 50-54 show that dead will rased from the dead on the day that Jesus returns at the last trumpet.
As to the question to where the lake of fire will be, read 2 peter 3:7-13 indicate that the lake of fire will be on earth.
I hope this will be helpful.
Job 14:12
so he lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, people will not awake or be roused from their sleep.
And
Daniel 12:2
New International Version (NIV)
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Also 1 corinthians 15 :20-23 and verses 50-54 show that dead will rased from the dead on the day that Jesus returns at the last trumpet.
As to the question to where the lake of fire will be, read 2 peter 3:7-13 indicate that the lake of fire will be on earth.
I hope this will be helpful.