Very nice site, I currently have and use Logos silver edition.....
Do you use original languages in bible study and teaching?
- Thread starter YeshuaFan
- Start date
I invested $$$$ in Logos while at seminary and though it did help me, I could have benefitted with bluelettebible.com which I believe was at no cost? and was shared to me by some of my classmates, after the fact. lol!
I had Gramcord while in school, and would have gotten Accordance, but was Apple only at that time, so went to logos!
Yup "Blue Letter" is still free.
What is interesting to me is while my Logos currently has roughly 400 books on it, use it mainly for the reference works such as dictionaries and introductions!
Never.
Why?
Because the revealer of the word is Jesus.
The verse says...."you have no need of any man teach you", yet the NT says that God gives "teachers"..
So, is that a contradiction?
It is not.
Its an interesting thing to note, that most believers are .."""" looking for""""" ........ vs realizing """""they have become."""""
In other words.....>"in Jesus are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge", and if you are truly born again, vs just being water baptized, then "Christ in you, the hope of Glory", means you are "One with God", "in Christ".
So, if God and Christ and the HS are in you, then you dont need a man to teach you......you need instead the revelation of what is being taught by the man, revealed to your inner man or "spiritual eyes being enlightened".
See, the word of God is "spirit and truth", and you dont read that to understand it, you discern it spiritually as REVELATION.
And what does that mean?
It means that Christ in you, reveals His word to you,...... not to your mind, but to your Spiritual understanding.
So this is not me teaching you, this is God revealing what im teaching, in you.
See that?
For example......let say i wrote a Thread on...."what is the difference between Salvation and Discipleship".
Most believers don't even realize that there is a difference, yet, Salvation is not Discipleship.
And 1000 people read my Thread......
And yet, only 200 "get it". Only 200, come to SEE that Salvation is Christ on the Cross, 2000 yrs ago, saying "it is FINISHED".
So, there is your salvation. He did it.
So, you have the 800 who think....>"no, im working it out to try to finish it for myself", (Legalism)... who wrongly perceive what they are doing is their salvation being maintained, and then you have the 200 who have been enlightened and understand that Salvation is "the Gift of Salvation" that they were given, as "faith is counted as righteousness"... "Justification by faith"...... as proven by being born again, as that is the only proof of Salvation.
Fruit proves fruit.
Being Born again proves Salvation.
So these 200, have no issue with understanding the distinction between What God did for them, which is John 3:16, and what they are to do because they have been born again, and now because they are, they "present their bodies a living sacrifice' (discipleship), because they are saved, and never do they do this to try to keep their salvation or maintain their peace-fellowship with God, that is only created and maintained by the blood of Jesus.
Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2
So, 1000 people hear this same message, and yet 800 can't SEE IT, and the 200 who do, were taught it not by my Thread, but by the Christ in them, who reveals it inside them, Spiritually, = as revelation knowledge.
The other 800 are trying to SEE the Cross of Christ with their "natural mind" and the natural mind is enmity against the Spirit of God, and cannot see the Things of God or understand them, because the things of God are "spiritually discerned" ONLY.
And about those "greek texts".
Well, here is the issue.
Unless you can read and speak "koine greek" fluently, then when you are using that Greek to try to understand a real bible, then because you can't actually read Koine Greek, you are reading what a translator has translated, and you think that this is you reading the greek.
Wrong answer, Saint.
Its not. Its actually you reading what a translator has translated into the english, and you never considered that maybe this translator is not born again, and so, their translation would not based on "rightly dividing" or "spiritually discerning".
Thus you become the theological victim of a bad translator, and never knew it, because you trusted their translation, and have no way to KNOW if its accurate, or how terrible it is...... because you can't read Koine Greek.
And a person says...."but i spent $400 on this book, so that means the translation has to be better than my Bible."""""""
Really?
See, the reality is, you spent $400 to read the translator's translation of the Greek, and you have no way to know if this person is being honest, or if this person is a atheist who enjoys pretending to translate the "greek", accurately, so that he can ruin the Faith and Theology of Christians.
You spent $400 for some translators "unknown" translation, when you could have spent $60 on a time tested and time proven BIBLE that has all sorts of legit study helps, etc.
This....."well, yeah i have a bible, but what i use is the Greek Text translated, because i can't read Greek and so, that is how i know its true".
So, this is a weird FAD that has happened to the body of Christ, that is caused by someone in a Pulpit who can't read Greek saying...>"well in this verse the Original Greek says", and in fact they can't even read Greek.
See the problem?
You can't know, because you can't read Greek, and you probably have not considered that the Devil is very clever and he in fact has his greek translators and he has his bible versions, just like he has his "christian forums" and "denominations", and etc.
He is a master of deception.
Its what he does.
Its who he is.....
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Forgive my bluntness, but using your criteria, is not God’s Word and Spirit sufficient for that, to those who are born again?
There is this additional problem…
1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV
[12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Are you asking me, "is God's word and Spirit, sufficient, to show me how to read Greek"?
Thats a no.
No I was not asking you that, let me approach this from a slightly different angle. Could you not use the same argument you use for Greek, use with the English language and it's corresponding dictionaries? Either way, Greek or English, we are dependent on the language aspect and the better we know the languages (be it English, Greek or Hebrew) the better grasp of the subject matter that we are reading.
The Lord has given to us the original language texts to study , and the various bible study tools to be used!
That would require diligent studying!
the hebrew and greek texts are what the Lord used to record down His inspired books to us in, and superior to any and all translations!
Not at all.
Let me show you something really interesting.....
God in His foreknowledge, knows all things, before they happen.
And that is very interesting, in all cases, especially concerning the fact that God wants ALL people to be able to read His word.
"the Preaching of the Cross" is the Gospel of Salvation, and if you can't understand it, language wise, then how can "faith come by hearing, and hearing by the word of God'?
How many people in this world, dont Speak, OT Hebrew, and 1st century Koine Greek?
A.) most of the planet.
So, what did God do about that?
Well, He always knew (foreknowledge) that as time progressed in the "time of the Gentiles", that the world was going to end up, as "most of the world, speak's english".
In fact, it would be difficult to find a place in the world today, where English is not taught to the culture.
A.) Most People in the world, have been taught the fundamentals of the English Language, including the America Hating communist and muslim countries.
B.) This is required as a part of their studies, worldwide.
So, God KNEW that the universal language was going to one day become, English...... and that is why about 5oo yrs ago, the English Bible's became the word of God.
And that is even moreso true today, in these end times.
God is not foolish. He would not have as His word , what nearly 100% of the planet can't read or speak. = Koine Greek, and Hebrew.
Oh, I agree, you might take that up with Behold
And if you can read and speak, Koine Greek and OT Hebrew, fluently, then by all means., get one of the 30 "extant" Greek texts, after you pursue with due diligence a deep course in manuscript evidence so that you can determine, on a scholarly level, which of the 30 greek new testaments is the real one, or 2, and why not use the Latin Translation instead.
However, if by "study" you mean....>"i have a few Greek Lexicon study bibles, and each is translated by a different translator, and they dont all say the same thing, so, i will just go with the one i think makes the best sense, per verse............if that is what you mean, then by all means, never do that.
Here is what Paul told us to do.
The word of God is Spirit and Truth.. and you study it, by learning how to "rightly divide it", which is to "spiritually discern it", as the word of God is "Spiritually Discerned".
You read a novel, and you "discern" the scriptures. This is not even related as "study".
So, if you can't even read Greek, then there is no way you can even begin to spiritually discern it.
God knew all this, and that is why English is the universal "gold standard", and the English Bibles are the way to go.
The Inuits have about 50 words for our one word ‘snow‘. Greek and Hebrew have the same type similarities when compared to English.
I know where you are coming from, but don’t you think one year of Greek is better than none at all?
At least you won’t have the wool pulled over your eyes by theological hucksters pointing to the Book of Romans and saying “In this verse the Hebrew says…”
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Yet, how many people on this Forum, or in your Church, and denomination, speak Koine Greek and OT Hebrew fluently and read it fluently?
That is the same in the WORLD.
So, God "foreknew" all this, and that is why we have "english, as the universal language situation, vs, Hebrew and Koine Greek, that only .0001% can read fluently.
Im not anti greek texts and anti hebrew manuscripts.
I have access to a Hebrew New Testament.
My wife is a messianic Jew who speaks Hebrew fluently, as well.
Im use to it, but i know that English is the bible.
Im pro-logic and value common sense and can recognize truth, especially when its obvious.
I dont have to be filled with the Spirit to realize that God is not using languages that most humans can't read or speak, as the "bible".
See post #58