Doctrines of Grace

[Abdicate]

I watched the Ragamuffin Movie last night about Rich Mullins. It's rated PG-13 and I didn't know why. We watched if carefully, ready to stop at any moment, but it contains his drinking and smoking problem with some cussing. I can understand, but I loved the movie and I loved his music. Why? Because he was a man like us, trying to do the right things, but he had his vices. It was a very good movie, not some low-budget church film. It was very well done. Get the tissues ready too…

The point is, no one is perfect, but we're always ready to pounce on someone for some insignificant infraction. (I’m guilty too and don’t always catch myself either). At the same time, we are to help each other and rather than give the speaker the benefit of the doubt, we immediately reject their words, even if they may come from God Himself. I ponder everything, mull it over, swallow if it’s for me, spit it out if it’s not, after honest reflection. Am I always right? Never! God’s the only one that’s perfect. I just know I won’t be judged by God for it

 

[Ravindran]

If God had NO intention of ever paying for YOUR sins.. This means Christ did NOT die for YOU.... You are FULLY OBEDIENT to God by Not accepting Christ... Since you did not express your will against God's Will - you have no sin... Thus - you have no need for Christ.

Sorry buddy.. Wrong conclusion!! Unbeliever can be obedient to God's will.. For instance, God's will is not to lie.. An unbeliever can refrain from telling lies.. He is being obedient to God.. The point is, salvation is a gift from God..

We are clay and He is Potter.. He is the one who can soften us, mold us and make us.. Can the clay resist Potter and get thrashed? Certainly yes.. But remember, Potter is the one who actually prepared the clay by mixing water and mud.. He knows very well about the condition of clay.. Still He tries to mold the clay.. The clay resists and is broken..

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Nope, you don't understand. I do need christ, because without God's grace we all deserve hell. But I taught you what scripture clearly teaches, and that is that Jesus died for those chosen by God. Jesus died for his sheep out of the whole world, not for the entire world itself.

God's grace is given to us only through Christ -- so we especially need Him.

 

[Major]

If Jesus did die for literally every single person, or the whole "world", why does Jesus say in John 17:9

"I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."

John 6:39
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

John 12:19
So the Pharisees said to one another, "See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!"

Did the Pharisees literally mean every single person? No, by the world they mean't Gentiles.

Revelation 5:9
9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation."

This is the meaning of all people, and the whole world.

Jesus bought our salvation, and all those who he died for will be saved. If Jesus simply made it possible to be saved, why then did he say in John 10:28-29

28 "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand."

But then there is John 3:16.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Christ died for the whole world but each individual person must come to Him and accept Him as Saviour and Lord.

"God will have all men to be saved" (1 Timothy 2:4).

Calvin himself says, "Christ brought life, because the heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish."

 

[LysanderShapiro]

We know Christ died for the world because mankind's soul's have been tainted with sin since the fall of man. The point was to put together what Adam had broken apart.

Major cited why we know that what Christ did was for the entire world. We just have to accept the entire world might not open the door.