Evangelism ¿ Say What

Fish Catcher Jim

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#41
Being a good citizen is still a good work and something that our Lord expects, -- just not evangelism.
Well I totally disagree! !
Where it is Not every aspect of evangelism it most certainly is a part.
It is a witness.

Walking in Godly Love is not the same as any ol Joe doing good. No Sir, it goes way above and draws attention unto itself.

There are many forms of evangelism
Blessings
FCJ
 
#42
Well I totally disagree! !
Where it is Not every aspect of evangelism it most certainly is a part.
It is a witness.

Walking in Godly Love is not the same as any ol Joe doing good. No Sir, it goes way above and draws attention unto itself.

There are many forms of evangelism
Blessings
FCJ
With great respect (and I do respect both you and Abdicate greatly), your reply is to my point. You said "it draws attention unto itself", and I would agree, although I would say that it draws attention to who our Lord is.

You can not be a witness if you do not make the object of that witness known.

If the world around does not know this about the good deed doer, that he does this because of the Lord he serves, how would that aid an onlooker know the Lord any better? Otherwise, the attention that you say it draws would be to the brother doing the good things.

Again, I am not denigrating the good mannerly acts or any other acts of good citizenship. I think they are very laudable and in keeping with the dictates of our Lord. I just don't see how they teach anything to anyone else about our Lord, which is what evangelism is, unless the viewer knew that about the brother.

They may teach the brother doing the good acts a few things (like how thoughtful obedience can be joyful)
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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#43
With great respect (and I do respect both you and Abdicate greatly), your reply is to my point. You said "it draws attention unto itself", and I would agree, although I would say that it draws attention to who our Lord is.

You can not be a witness if you do not make the object of that witness known.

If the world around does not know this about the good deed doer, that he does this because of the Lord he serves, how would that aid an onlooker know the Lord any better? Otherwise, the attention that you say it draws would be to the brother doing the good things.

Again, I am not denigrating the good mannerly acts or any other acts of good citizenship. I think they are very laudable and in keeping with the dictates of our Lord. I just don't see how they teach anything to anyone else about our Lord, which is what evangelism is, unless the viewer knew that about the brother.

They may teach the brother doing the good acts a few things (like how thoughtful obedience can be joyful)
Lol I think you are still missing the point.
Yes preaching and teaching is a good part of evangelism and yet it is only a part.

A Godly man Walking In Godly Love will outshine and do good person. It's the Love of God flowing through that gets the attention and this does draw men unto it.
They don't understand it and will ask about it and want it.

You can not be a witness if you do not make the object of that witness known.
Our entire life or the way we live or the way we do or do not do things is as a witness and a part of evangelism.

We are to draw them unto us which is drawing them unto the light in us which ultimately is Christ.

Blessings
FCJ
 
#44
Lol I think you are still missing the point.
Yes preaching and teaching is a good part of evangelism and yet it is only a part.

A Godly man Walking In Godly Love will outshine and do good person. It's the Love of God flowing through that gets the attention and this does draw men unto it.
They don't understand it and will ask about it and want it.



Our entire life or the way we live or the way we do or do not do things is as a witness and a part of evangelism.

We are to draw them unto us which is drawing them unto the light in us which ultimately is Christ.

Blessings
FCJ
Peace.

I do see the point about living our lives as Christians is a whole-life commitment, and one cannot be a good witness for the Lord if he does not show the Lords influence in all that we do.

I think we are in strong agreement regarding the Christian way of life and are bickering about categories and nomenclature. I apologize for what may seem pointless.

:) :D :)
 
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#47
Could this be discipleship? The teaching part?
It could be if the observer knew that the good acts were because of the Lord. I think that without that knowledge, much of the context for the lesson is lost.

It also could be part of discipleship of the brother doing the good acts (practicing what he has learned will strengthen his lessons about obedience and service).
 
#48
Well. Was going to add something but maybe just leave it as already said what I think evangelism is.
I havent baptised anyone yet but I do witness, which to me is not quite the same as evangelising. I have also taught the bible in schools and the good works I do each day are to glorify Him not myself because He gives me them for me to do. Im more into discipleship.
In terms of spreading the word and the Good News its often a one on one encounter with someone, ive given away a lot of bibles and also when the opportunity presents its itself just placed tracts round the neighbourhood.
If someone who isnt christian asks for prayer I see that as their hearts are open to recieving from God.

To be an evangelist and have His power as the kingdom of God comes not just in word but power, well I think God does prepare us if He calls us specifically for that task. He will say or impress on whoever he calls to tell the gospel to someone or a group of people. I can say Ive sown a lot of seeds but I also know to prepare the soil is just as important.
 
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#49
Want to add just finished reading a biography of 'Billy Graham' the greatest evangelist.

It seems he was not involved with any baptisms at all nor preached about it and just handed it over to church volunteers to do the rest. I would say he was more of a revivalist than an evangelist. He would do crusades but the people that went were people who were mostly already raised in church. Maybe he was asking for confimation or a commitment rather than a true born again expericence, there seem to be no records of people being healed or delivered at his crusades.

I havent seen a broadcast of his preaching, but from this book it doesnt seem he presented the gospel in full. Jesus died yes, for our sins but he doesnt say he was raised to life. He does talk about repentance but he doesnt say anything about baptism. i just find that rather odd.

Ive no doubt that Billy Graham had a relationship with Jesus and his children are following the Lord but am a bit confused about his campaigns. He was raised presbyterian so he was already baptised as a baby. But what about all the people that werent?
 

Fish Catcher Jim

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Staff member
Senior Moderator
#50
Want to add just finished reading a biography of 'Billy Graham' the greatest evangelist.

It seems he was not involved with any baptisms at all nor preached about it and just handed it over to church volunteers to do the rest. I would say he was more of a revivalist than an evangelist. He would do crusades but the people that went were people who were mostly already raised in church. Maybe he was asking for confimation or a commitment rather than a true born again expericence, there seem to be no records of people being healed or delivered at his crusades.

I havent seen a broadcast of his preaching, but from this book it doesnt seem he presented the gospel in full. Jesus died yes, for our sins but he doesnt say he was raised to life. He does talk about repentance but he doesnt say anything about baptism. i just find that rather odd.

Ive no doubt that Billy Graham had a relationship with Jesus and his children are following the Lord but am a bit confused about his campaigns. He was raised presbyterian so he was already baptised as a baby. But what about all the people that werent?
That book is Wrong!
Or your perception to what was said is not understanding correctly.
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

<>< Radically Saved ><>
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Senior Moderator
#51
Want to add just finished reading a biography of 'Billy Graham' the greatest evangelist.

It seems he was not involved with any baptisms at all nor preached about it and just handed it over to church volunteers to do the rest. I would say he was more of a revivalist than an evangelist. He would do crusades but the people that went were people who were mostly already raised in church. Maybe he was asking for confimation or a commitment rather than a true born again expericence, there seem to be no records of people being healed or delivered at his crusades.

I havent seen a broadcast of his preaching, but from this book it doesnt seem he presented the gospel in full. Jesus died yes, for our sins but he doesnt say he was raised to life. He does talk about repentance but he doesnt say anything about baptism. i just find that rather odd.

Ive no doubt that Billy Graham had a relationship with Jesus and his children are following the Lord but am a bit confused about his campaigns. He was raised presbyterian so he was already baptised as a baby. But what about all the people that werent?
There were lots of healings and MANY got saved through Billy Graham.

When he was still in Bible school he preached a sermon and gave an alter call.
Many came forward and were saved.
This opened his eyes that God was taking him in this direction and it grew and grew from there.




I havent seen a broadcast of his preaching, but from this book it doesnt seem he presented the gospel in full. Jesus died yes, for our sins but he doesnt say he was raised to life. He does talk about repentance but he doesnt say anything about baptism. i just find that rather odd.
That is totally incorrect information.
Who wrote this book any way?
He was big on repentance and he preached the Hole Gospel.

Blessings to you
 
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Cturtle

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#52
Want to add just finished reading a biography of 'Billy Graham' the greatest evangelist.

It seems he was not involved with any baptisms at all nor preached about it and just handed it over to church volunteers to do the rest. I would say he was more of a revivalist than an evangelist. He would do crusades but the people that went were people who were mostly already raised in church. Maybe he was asking for confimation or a commitment rather than a true born again expericence, there seem to be no records of people being healed or delivered at his crusades.

I havent seen a broadcast of his preaching, but from this book it doesnt seem he presented the gospel in full. Jesus died yes, for our sins but he doesnt say he was raised to life. He does talk about repentance but he doesnt say anything about baptism. i just find that rather odd.

Ive no doubt that Billy Graham had a relationship with Jesus and his children are following the Lord but am a bit confused about his campaigns. He was raised presbyterian so he was already baptised as a baby. But what about all the people that werent?
I think that what you wrote about his handing the people off to churches speaks to his working close with local churches, so that it was like a team effort. He preached the way God gifted him to, people accepted Christ as Savior and the churches did the rest. In my opinion... that's the way it should be when you have an evangelist like Billy Graham or Reinhardt Bonke. Their responsibility is to help people understand their need for Jesus... then the local churches do the discipling and baptizing.

There is no way that he could baptize them all. Way to many people. And healing may not have been his gift, so it was not something he concentrated/focused on. I do believe he did exactly what God called him to do.

We also have to remember what era he started to speak in. A lot (or the majority) of people in the early days of his ministry probably did go to church... but they may not have made the decision to follow Christ.
 
#53
The book is by Sam Wellman and is part of the series Heroes of Faith. i found it a bit boring to be honest it didnt really give a good picture of who Billy Graham was, just recounted how many countries he went to and he did this and he did that kind of biography. From reading it got the impression young Billy was impressed by the revivalist preachers at the time. One called Mordecai Ham (his real name? I dont know) and that he idolised him and that was why he wanted to become a preacher. Also it didnt really say why he insisted that his wife Ruth give up her missionary dreams to marry him.

Maybe theres a better biography out there. Just found it a bit odd. Also he seemed to curry favour with all the american Presidents, but the only professed christian one Jimmy Carter he didnt get along with.

I dont know I wasnt around when he came to NZ so but people talk about him a lot so wanted to find out more about him. I've read one book of his about Angels. Ive never been to a revival crusade so, not sure what its all about. I think these days people are evangelised in different ways not mass crowds anymore. I always thought that you can talk about God anyone can but to demonstrate His power is another thing. The book seemed to measure his success by the crowd turnout, not whether anyone was healed or delivered. I wanted to read more about what actually happened in his crusades than just he went here and there and x number of people turned up.
 
#54
I would have liked the book to maybe quote some of the sermons he preached in full.
Its seemed to gloss over a lot and just gave the impression all his testimony was Billy just said he was a sinner and that he needed God. Jesus died for your sins. Accept christ and be saved.

Theres probably a lot more to it than that. But it would be edifying to know what he actually said, so that people at that time would have found the courage or honesty to come forward. I mean theres lots of different sins that people hide from God. What ones was Billy Graham picking out?
 
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#55
I think that what you wrote about his handing the people off to churches speaks to his working close with local churches, so that it was like a team effort. He preached the way God gifted him to people accepted Christ as Savior and the churches did the rest. In my opinion... that's the way it should be when you have an evangelist like Billy Graham or Reinhardt Bonke. Their responsibility is to help people they need Jesus... then they work with the local churches to do the discipling and baptizing.

There is no way that he could baptize them all. Way to many people. And healing may not have been his gift, so it was not something he concentrated/focused on. I do believe he did exactly what God called him to do.

We also have to remember what era he started to speak in. A lot (or the majority) of people in the early days of his ministry probably did go to church... but they may not have made the decision to follow Christ.
In acts 2:41 it says

Then they that gladly recieved his word were baptized: and that same day were added unto them three thousand souls.
 
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#56
Off topic but thought I would chime in here. I agree with Lanolin that baptism is a necessary part of being born again that needs to be presented; Repent towards God the Father, be baptized into Jesus Christ , be filled with Holy Spirit. All three are necessary. If people had a clear understanding of all those things from the get go, they may not have to struggle for years as I did in their walks. I never really understood that anything spiritual happened through baptism, that the old me died and a new me was born of that water. I never really understood sin then no longer had any dominion over me as a new creation. Baptism isn’t just symbolic. It’s a spiritual act and when people have that understanding and are prayed for after baptism, demons manifest and leave!
As far as being filled with Holy Spirit, we are sealed when we repent but we need Him in fullness to walk in power to be a witness for Christ. The gospel of Jesus Christ should be presented not in word only, but in power.
That’s my 2 cents. :)
 

Fish Catcher Jim

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#57
Off topic but thought I would chime in here. I agree with Lanolin that baptism is a necessary part of being born again that needs to be presented; Repent towards God the Father, be baptized into Jesus Christ , be filled with Holy Spirit. All three are necessary. If people had a clear understanding of all those things from the get go, they may not have to struggle for years as I did in their walks. I never really understood that anything spiritual happened through baptism, that the old me died and a new me was born of that water. I never really understood sin then no longer had any dominion over me as a new creation. Baptism isn’t just symbolic. It’s a spiritual act and when people have that understanding and are prayed for after baptism, demons manifest and leave!
As far as being filled with Holy Spirit, we are sealed when we repent but we need Him in fullness to walk in power to be a witness for Christ. The gospel of Jesus Christ should be presented not in word only, but in power.
That’s my 2 cents. :)
I agree as do most that Baptism is a vital part of being born again.

The dispute seems to be who and when.
Some folks think that an evangelist needs to baptize everyone who gives their life to Christ at that time.

They don't take in account that they do as they are lead to do. It's not up to them how they do things but is up to how the Father tells them.

Blessings
 

Cturtle

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#58
As I was searching/studying Scriptures about baptism... I came across this one...
1 Corinthians 1:17 (KJV)
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

I'm not saying baptism is not important... for I feel it's very important. But some people's calling does not include baptizing people... just like the apostle Paul
 
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Cturtle

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#59
I would have liked the book to maybe quote some of the sermons he preached in full.
Its seemed to gloss over a lot and just gave the impression all his testimony was Billy just said he was a sinner and that he needed God. Jesus died for your sins. Accept christ and be saved.

Theres probably a lot more to it than that. But it would be edifying to know what he actually said, so that people at that time would have found the courage or honesty to come forward. I mean theres lots of different sins that people hide from God. What ones was Billy Graham picking out?
From what I understand... it was more of the anointing of The Holy Spirit that spoke through him to people's hearts that caused people to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior... not necessarily the words he spoke. Meaning that if anyone else were to speak the same words that Billy Graham spoke... unless they carried the anointing he had, they may not get the same results.
 
#60
From what I understand... it was more of the anointing of The Holy Spirit that spoke through him to people's hearts that caused people to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior... not necessarily the words he spoke. Meaning that if anyone else were to speak the same words that Billy Graham spoke... unless they carried the anointing he had, they may not get the same results.
Ok, not sure, I would think evangelising someone involves baptism. Whether one person does it or two....but baptism is just as important. when Paul was preaching the gospel, he had helpers like Barnabas and Apollos.
When Phillip was sharing with the eunuch , he wanted to be baptised straight away and so nothing hindered Phillip from ministering to him. He didnt say oh wait go talk to someone else.

I know from my own experience baptism is very important to God. Jesus grand commison was not just preaching but baptising. I know many babes in christ who were never told about baptism and thus flundered around in their stumbling attempts at walking in CHrist like starving and neglected plants. It doesnt matter if you feed a plant heaps of food, if they have no water they will die.

And I dont think God wants to grow a lot of thorny, bitter plants bearing bad fruit.
 
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