Did he not create the brain, that we have on loan from our Creator?
Yes they may be evil too. That's why it's important to mind the only One who isn't evil. Mt 19:17
Evil
- Thread starter Wan
- Start date
Of course God does not want us to be his puppets. We can still refuse him. There is a world of difference between voluntary and involuntary servitude.
And then there's slavery...
In some churches when you volunteer there you aren't appreciated at all, which has put me off doing anything with them. It seems rich priveliged christians get an easier ride than poorer ones.
James 2:5 NKJV
Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
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Slavery is involuntary, and you can't change your mind after the fact nor simply walk away. Service is always voluntary, and service is reaffirmed with every act.
For example, imagine the knights of the round table. Were Percival or Gawain slaves? No, yet they served with honor and love the man they called King.
Serving God is no different. I understand the struggle. For many years I wrestled with this. It's only now starting to make some kind of sense.
Hello JPPT1974;
Thank you for sharing your good point. We have always enjoyed your encouragement and insight. We hope you can post more in the fellowship.
God bless you, JPPT1974, your family and Merry Christmas.
we have never had knights.
The only knights in NZ are politicians and they have all walked away or resigned cos they have family to look after. I have my family to look after.
Does God need looking after? No He doesn't.
In some churches you have to make a pledge or oath to serve them. Then you can not leave. They make you sign something, and your income away...to give to them. You can't be a member unless you sign something or serve them in any capacity until this is done. (it will just be looked at but won't be appreciated)
If you then need to leave, they shun you.
If you then need to leave, they shun you.
Also God only wants able bodied people, anyone with a disability or health issue, it seems, cannot serve, or, in some instances will be barred. At least in some countries where they have armies, who say they are serving God. Women are discouraged from serving, except for cleaning toilets and making teas, cleaning up bodies, staying at home looking after children with no help etc.
This is the rational behind going to war. People use God to justify it. Then people say those who don't sign up to serve are cowards, even if they have to look after their own families first. Because nobody else will look after them. Govts don't do this...well some of them.
Also, anyone who doesn't kill anyone on orders is told they are disobedient.
Don't think Satan doesn't have an army as well, and also requires obedience. He can masquerade as God.
This is the rational behind going to war. People use God to justify it. Then people say those who don't sign up to serve are cowards, even if they have to look after their own families first. Because nobody else will look after them. Govts don't do this...well some of them.
Also, anyone who doesn't kill anyone on orders is told they are disobedient.
Don't think Satan doesn't have an army as well, and also requires obedience. He can masquerade as God.
Hello Lanolin;
Back in 2015 I preached a sermon Jesus Prunes His Tree While Planting Another
Jesus Curses the Fig Tree, Cleanses the Temple, and The Lesson from the Withered Fig Tree reference Mark 11:12-25
I am not qualified to know the autonomy of Christian Churches on all four corners of the earth because I'm not there to witness each one.
What you share is a very bleak attitude of these Churches. This is sad.
I don't know or ever knew a group of grown up adults (Church members) who would succumb to signing an agreement of offerings, or be manipulated to serve in order to be a member.
When our Church's pulpit committee was interviewing the next pastor to succeed me, there was one candidate that expressed he would instill a bylaw of having the members sign an agreement of a percentage they would give annually.
This is not Biblical and he was immediately disqualified.
God does amazing things with His weakest servants, especially those who are handicapped, physical and mental well being whether man or woman. God reserved specific anointing roles for women and men throughout the Bible.
Next June 2024, I'll be blessed to be married 39 years. In all these years there were very tough and very happy times.
But I would never make my wife stay home, barefoot, and raise children and clean the toilet. God sent me a wonderful woman. So why would I disrespect her or myself?!?
If my wife and I were manipulated to serve under these conditions just to be members we would say, no thanks, and if we're shunned because of that, then they can take a hike because that is not a Christian Church and our True God makes a way out of nonsense flags. We're not going to waste our oxygen on a false doctrine.
Lanolin, what you shared constitutes evil. We who follow Christ are given academic discipline to understand what the Word says about protecting us from evil. We are covered by Christ and empowered to walk away.
God bless you, sister.
part of the teaching of the Model prayer is Deliver us from evil. you want to see what evil is watch the news you will see it first hand.. it effects us all
Because I didn't grow up in church, I didn't know which churches were good and which were evil. I thought they were all meant to be good and when I came to faith, I was excited, until I learned about church membership.
One church wanted to know how much I earned, so I could give them ten percent or more every week. I didn't even have a paid job! They printed out little slips so you can write your credit card number on it. I didn't even have a credit card. That was part of joining a church.
Not all churches are like this, but many do similar things. One church I visited had a new pastor that ran it as a business with a cafe attached and would guilt their parishioners into giving all their pay as offerings. They would quote that they would be robbing God if they did not do this.
One church wanted to know how much I earned, so I could give them ten percent or more every week. I didn't even have a paid job! They printed out little slips so you can write your credit card number on it. I didn't even have a credit card. That was part of joining a church.
Not all churches are like this, but many do similar things. One church I visited had a new pastor that ran it as a business with a cafe attached and would guilt their parishioners into giving all their pay as offerings. They would quote that they would be robbing God if they did not do this.
Bob, are there more particulars that the rejected candidate articulated as to what he thought should be done with the agreed upon percentage? I mean, was it really that far off the mark of decency, or even downright evil, what he proposed?
Was his plan geared toward those agreed upon percentages flow into the general fund to be handled by himself, or was the intent to build up support for the needy? That's the question in my mind.
If it was for the general fund, then that is potentially suspect, but if for the meeting of needs, the scriptures exemplify the fact that the MAJORITY of the people's giving SHOULD be for the meeting of needs BEFORE the building, its bills, staffing, etc., ONLY if that giving by the members is earmarked as that which they are "giving to the Lord."
Just curious about the intent.
Thanks, brother.
MM
how could anyone be so naïve succumb to signing any agreement. yes there are some things that has to be implemented as by laws to protect the Church . in a association i belonged to we voted in a known homosexuals' will either A. be ordained or B stand in the pulpit . as per signing anything . the Bible says where the spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty. one your giving is between you and the Lord no body else. if one has to sign a pledge to join any Church. turn around find another Church. if one choses to stay in the church that wants you to sign a pledge . then they must enjoy being in bondage . i even question a church that has 5 pastors a pastor for music a pastor for children 2 associate pastors even a pastor for baptism
Hello Musicmaster;
Yes. It went beyond that and I didn't want to expose the candidate's demeanor, tone of voice and manner in the interview process which ended up being the decision by the committee to move on to other candidates.
Second, the candidate didn't discuss the Scripture's teachings of giving. He would make the percentage agreement mandatory. In the beginning of the interview process we presented the Board of Director's role within our Church which included managing the finances. The Lead Pastor (me) and the Pastoral staff never trumped the Board of Directors and it was apparent this candidate overlooked that part. This was surprising to the committee.
We follow the various teachings in the New Testament of giving with a cheerful heart reference 2 Corinthians 9:7-8, 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. - ESV
God revealed His faithfulness with our offerings (what each one could give) which helped us manage the allocations of moneys to other parts of ministry and expenses. We had a healthy bank account and threshold. The Church always paid by check/cash and never used a credit card.
I wasn't at the interviews. The committee reported to me the results. Only when the candidate succeeded the round of interviews did I end up meeting with the final two candidates. Unfortunately the one we were ready to hire had to decline. The second finalist was hired but he and his wife went through the immigration process from Canada to the United States.
I hope this helps, MM.
God bless you, brother.
people who are desperate to be in good standing? Ministers or those in leadership?
I've never signed anything to belong to a church.
I've signed some job contracts though, those are the only things I've signed up for, but I never made those contracts. No employee has any say on those, they are already made for you.
Now there is a lot of paperwork to do ministry these days you need a police vetting form, the pastor to sign, and to be a PAID up member of church. Ministries/missions also require you to have funds that you need to ask other people for. You can't have your own funds..oh and you need to sell your house if you can't afford it, never mind you have family that need a house and live with you!
I think they expect only those priveliged members who have 2 or more houses, to go on missions, or have financial support of their elders. My grandparents never had any money to give me. The only time they gave me was maybe for New Years when we all would get pocket money to last the whole year. We never got christmas presents, cos they didn't celebrate christmas.
I think for some churches, they only want wealthy patrons. I certainly learned that was what 'purpose driven' churches were all about. Making money for CEO pastors.
I think for some churches, they only want wealthy patrons. I certainly learned that was what 'purpose driven' churches were all about. Making money for CEO pastors.
i dont know personally of any church like that. of course area we live in not big like mega cities. i m sorry i would never be part of anything like that . i am all for missions we help a couple out in Guam past couple months we been sending summers clothing and shoes to them. the wife there distributes them out. all this except for mailing cost is donated . for a flat rate box with u.s postal service cost right at 20.00 to ship takes about 7 days. then the u.s customs paper work . my iwfe fills out what is in each box