He was probobly talking to the angels.
Explain Trinity
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He was probobly talking to the angels.
Don't think so.
Since the angels don't create.
"let us make man in our own image"
The "us" in this verse is the creator. That is made clear in the verse itself. The only ones that could fit that position are Christ Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit. The father, Son and Holy Spirit are all present all the time. All synonymous with the other two in essence and purpose, yet presented as three independent and co-dependent presences to man.
Some refer to that as "The Trinity", (trinune God) The relationship trutly and undeniably exists. As Eligah stated there are many places in the OT, (NT as well) that allude to this relationship. But the exact nature and extent of it is not explained and should not be theologized (A word of my own creation
) as it has been beyond it's importance to the will of God and salvation of man.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
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Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
in the name of the Father- He is God EXODUS 3:14
in the name of the Son- He is God John 8:58
in the name of the Holy Ghost- He is God Joh 4:24
This is the one and only scripture that commands us to baptize in all three names of God
all the other times it is mention we are to baptize in the Name of Jesus:
Act 2:38
Act 8:12
Act 8:16
Act 19:5
But I guess that doesn't really matter since they are all one in the same God-
in the name of the Father- He is God EXODUS 3:14
in the name of the Son- He is God John 8:58
in the name of the Holy Ghost- He is God Joh 4:24
This is the one and only scripture that commands us to baptize in all three names of God
all the other times it is mention we are to baptize in the Name of Jesus:
Act 2:38
Act 8:12
Act 8:16
Act 19:5
But I guess that doesn't really matter since they are all one in the same God-
Looking at it differantly
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
The enteresting thing about this verse is that if taken literaly as meaning water baptism and that the words "of the Father,and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" must be said (which the vast majority of orthodox christianity does) then it is in conflict with the verses that say;" Baptize in the name of Jesus" or "in Jesus name". Not only that . . . but it is a subtle form of legalism that says that man can do something or not do something properly that effects anothers salvation.
In other words it says that baptism and the words said are a salvation issue and that man, not God, has the ability ,authority to determine anothers salvation. That just ain't so.
However if we accept (as scripture says) that salvation is the works of Jesus and not man through baptism then we must acknowledge that this must not mean literaly to speak those words.
If we look at in another perspective. As Jesus saying to them;"Fully emerse the world in teaching about the The father, the Son, the Holy Spirit" Then the other scriptures saying water baptize them under the authority of Jesus then no specific words are required. Which makes all scripture concerning baptism consistant.
I'm not saying that we can't say those words during baptism, just that I don't see any requirement to do so. Actualy there is more reason (by scriptural evidence) to say "in Jesus name" or "in the name of Jesus"than the by the trinity.
As I believe I have said before. . . I have no doubts about the trinity. But it is the doctrines that man has made from it that concerns me greatly.
Sincerely His
And yours
Cliff
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
The enteresting thing about this verse is that if taken literaly as meaning water baptism and that the words "of the Father,and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" must be said (which the vast majority of orthodox christianity does) then it is in conflict with the verses that say;" Baptize in the name of Jesus" or "in Jesus name". Not only that . . . but it is a subtle form of legalism that says that man can do something or not do something properly that effects anothers salvation.
In other words it says that baptism and the words said are a salvation issue and that man, not God, has the ability ,authority to determine anothers salvation. That just ain't so.
However if we accept (as scripture says) that salvation is the works of Jesus and not man through baptism then we must acknowledge that this must not mean literaly to speak those words.
If we look at in another perspective. As Jesus saying to them;"Fully emerse the world in teaching about the The father, the Son, the Holy Spirit" Then the other scriptures saying water baptize them under the authority of Jesus then no specific words are required. Which makes all scripture concerning baptism consistant.
I'm not saying that we can't say those words during baptism, just that I don't see any requirement to do so. Actualy there is more reason (by scriptural evidence) to say "in Jesus name" or "in the name of Jesus"than the by the trinity.
As I believe I have said before. . . I have no doubts about the trinity. But it is the doctrines that man has made from it that concerns me greatly.
Sincerely His
And yours
Cliff
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
Others may disagree with me but I don'y really see the difference- either reference is scriptural- and like you said our salvation is based on the work of Christ- so whatever floats your boat is fine with me!
`
Isn't that exactly what Noah's wife said to him just as their picnic lunch got "rained out" ?
`
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
I, too, think the OT contains many referrences to the trinity. This one topic is what separates Christians from so many other faiths, namely JW's and Mormons. Only the Christian faith says that God (Jesus) died for us and rose back to life on the third day. No other faith can say that God did this. That's why it's so important to believe that Jesus and God are one. When Jesus sent His Holy Spirit to His disciples (and to us today), that was the third and final form of God given to man. In the OT, it was God in the form of the father (Moses got to see this form of God briefly). In the NT, Jesus is the form of God which interacted with man for a brief period. Then He sent His Holy Spirit to all nations and we can expect that God will return to earth after all nations have heard the gospel. How long after? Not even the Son knows that!
I totally agree. It is as incomprehensible to gray matter as the eternal nature of Jesus.
Jesus became incarnate yet "before Abraham was, I am". He is God through and through. He is God in regard to the flesh and also man in regard to the flesh. He isn't 2 people or beings. He is one. He is God and man at the same time and only God can understand this.
Sure it matters. They are all distinct persons. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father and so on. There are 3 distinct persons of the trinity but they are 1 God. They aren't 3 Gods.
Gray matter...mortal, limited...can't comprehend it.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
If the bible gives me the option of using one name or three I figure either way is sufficent so which ever choice I make will be acceptable- so fom that standpoint and on that issue I really don't think it matters.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
God is one God- He is more than we can mentaly comprehend and manifests Himself in these three ways- Father, Son, Holy Ghost- They are distinct in personality but they are really one:
MARK 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
JOHN 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
JAMES 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
GALATIANS 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
DEUTERONOMY 32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
2 SAMUEL 7:22 —Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
2 KINGS 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
ISAIAH 43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
HOSEA 13:4 — Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.
ISAIAH 44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
ISAIAH 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.
MARK 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
JOHN 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
JAMES 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
GALATIANS 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
DEUTERONOMY 32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
2 SAMUEL 7:22 —Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
2 KINGS 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
ISAIAH 43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
HOSEA 13:4 — Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.
ISAIAH 44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
ISAIAH 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.
hi all......
I, for one, as well as the historical church, and the scriptures themselves all teach that the doctrine of the Trinity DOES matter, and one's salvation DOES rest upon the doctrine,....
this is because.... there is only only one real true God... that is, there is only one God that actually exists... one that has being... there are no other gods except false gods.... now either the one true God is biblically described as being Triune and is in fact Triune, or God is not in all actuality Triune at all.... so if God is described as Triune and in fact IS Triune, and one denied this to be true of God and of God's essential nature, then in fact, such a one has denied the one true God, the only God that actually "IS", and whatever "god" they believe in is not the God of the Bible at all... and the reverse is also true. If Christians who believe in the Trinity (IMHO, only such persons who affirm the Trinity can rightly be called Christians in the first place and in the historical sense) and the Trinity is false, the Trinitarian Christians are believing in a false God.... either one, both cannot be true, and whoever is wrong will reap the whirlwind for worshiping a false God....
and no matter how politically correct, or ecumenical, or pluralistically popular it is (no offense to anyone here) it is to say things like "it doesn't matter what you believe... just so long as you are sincere" and the like.... to say believe what you want... "it will all work out"..... "there are many paths to God and believing or disbelieving in the Trinity has no effect one which path one happens to be on"... etc etc etc.... well I just do not see this in the pages of the Bible.... the prophets, Jesus, the disciples.... were all VERY concerned about having true beliefs, it really and truly mattered what one believed!!!!... look at how often and how loudly Paul preached salvation by grace alone through faith alone!!!...or how many times he had to face down the Greek philosophers in Athens (Acts 17ff), and false teachers only seeking monetary gain etc etc etc..... in fact much of the Bible was written in order to combat heresies that were trying to find their way into the church and time and time again the biblical writers had to step in correct erroneous doctrine... see especially Paul to the Galatians (eg Paul "withstood him (Peter) to his face" and Peter and the Judiazers in geenral had to be fought against, the party of the circumcision etc) and 1st John (contra the Gnostics).... and look and remember at how narrow minded, politically incorrect it was for Jesus to say that "I AM the Way, The Truth, and The Life and NO ONE goes to the Father BUT through Him.... this narrow minded fundamentalism was not popular in Jesus' day, it is even less so today.....
blessings,
Ken
I, for one, as well as the historical church, and the scriptures themselves all teach that the doctrine of the Trinity DOES matter, and one's salvation DOES rest upon the doctrine,....
this is because.... there is only only one real true God... that is, there is only one God that actually exists... one that has being... there are no other gods except false gods.... now either the one true God is biblically described as being Triune and is in fact Triune, or God is not in all actuality Triune at all.... so if God is described as Triune and in fact IS Triune, and one denied this to be true of God and of God's essential nature, then in fact, such a one has denied the one true God, the only God that actually "IS", and whatever "god" they believe in is not the God of the Bible at all... and the reverse is also true. If Christians who believe in the Trinity (IMHO, only such persons who affirm the Trinity can rightly be called Christians in the first place and in the historical sense) and the Trinity is false, the Trinitarian Christians are believing in a false God.... either one, both cannot be true, and whoever is wrong will reap the whirlwind for worshiping a false God....
and no matter how politically correct, or ecumenical, or pluralistically popular it is (no offense to anyone here) it is to say things like "it doesn't matter what you believe... just so long as you are sincere" and the like.... to say believe what you want... "it will all work out"..... "there are many paths to God and believing or disbelieving in the Trinity has no effect one which path one happens to be on"... etc etc etc.... well I just do not see this in the pages of the Bible.... the prophets, Jesus, the disciples.... were all VERY concerned about having true beliefs, it really and truly mattered what one believed!!!!... look at how often and how loudly Paul preached salvation by grace alone through faith alone!!!...or how many times he had to face down the Greek philosophers in Athens (Acts 17ff), and false teachers only seeking monetary gain etc etc etc..... in fact much of the Bible was written in order to combat heresies that were trying to find their way into the church and time and time again the biblical writers had to step in correct erroneous doctrine... see especially Paul to the Galatians (eg Paul "withstood him (Peter) to his face" and Peter and the Judiazers in geenral had to be fought against, the party of the circumcision etc) and 1st John (contra the Gnostics).... and look and remember at how narrow minded, politically incorrect it was for Jesus to say that "I AM the Way, The Truth, and The Life and NO ONE goes to the Father BUT through Him.... this narrow minded fundamentalism was not popular in Jesus' day, it is even less so today.....
blessings,
Ken
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Boanerges(Inactive)
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I agree with everything you have said Ken I just don't think it matters which way you are baptized as the bible mentions both baptism in "the Name of Jesus" and "in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost"-
smellycat
Account Closed
i think trinity is made up.father and son 1 spirit.who can number God.God is more than a number or a made up word.just my view,i cant see the trinity basis,also i cant see the reason.i dont accept things that are made up.not scriptual and certainly make no sense to me.who and where does trinity come from,answer me this and i will look into it.
JesusReignsForever
Inactive
God Jesus and the Holy Ghost!