Don't forget when they used to sell "indulgences" to people for their sins.......Which was basically a letter signed by the pope.
First Church?
- Thread starter Sweet Pea
- Start date
Ill informed
Ill informed ? No not at all.......the spirit is the spirit of truth. Jesus is truth. Not everything is touchy-feely. Some times truth hurts.
so .. unless you have been there .. you are only guessing ..
You are right- I don't understand Catholics because they exalt their councils and creeds above scripture.They also seem to think that they are authorized to add to scripture.
We do not understand Protestants either, since their view of Scripture just seems so illogical.
Michael, ignorance is sometimes not bliss because it shows how little you know. Being born in Italy we have no fear of the dead, we have love for our dead and do not have to fear them or handle them... and no, you are not just having fun, in my country we are born knowing how to read between the lines... and you bypassed altogether where i showed your own words trying to debase me as a person of the RCC...
Also the Bible shows even the earliest church members were being rebuked by Paul for not adhering to Christ's teachings, though i don't think that the ''ossuaries'' were meant as anything but that... Solomon allowed his wives of other pagan faiths to build altars to false gods and sacrifice to them, and this is the great Solomon... Calvin used tactics against other Christians that was not Christian at all... there are many misguided and wrongs done by humans and you are trying to make yourself as sole speaker and basher of anyone that does not believe in your theology, especially if they are Catholics...
As a Catholic we CELEBRATE MASS and the resurrection of our Lord... He is not dead at all for we see Him all around us and during mass He is the one sharing the bread and wine with us all...
There is One Living Bread from heaven...
One whom we all partake.
One whom we all partake.
in your own words: "They also seem to think"
sad ..
1Th 5:11
Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.
and what creed are you placing above scripture ???
The first Church was recorded in Acts chapter 2......this was before the catholic church was formed. The New Testament Church was predomanantly Jewish for quite sometime.Until the Holy Ghost was given to the Gentiles in Acts chapter 10......still not catholic !!
Brother David, are you here to bash Catholics or share in your love of Christ...???
Are you done now with your banter, it's easy to see what is hidden in you ... and you do make it clear to all.
Thank you my dear sister...it sounds really wonderful.
As for the March for Life (and other anti-abortion efforts) I think the RCC is doing an incredible front line job...(Jesus is proud I am sure).
At the same time per capita, just as many RCC women have had abortions as non-RCC women. Because scientists can freeze zygotes and embryos for years and then when they thaw bring them back, but when they try and do this with a Fetus it stays dead, some believe that first 8 weeks the conception is soul-less. Still others, taking Genesis 2 as a model believe it is not a living soul until it takes its first actual breath. These groups believe physical conception by procreation (originating with God through Adam and Eve) precedes spiritual conception (which He gives Himself).
Others work against abortion politically and individually and finally others though organizations like Rutherford Institute and the ACLJ who oppose it and write legislation on a Federal level even fighting for revision in the Supreme Court.
But if even just all the RCC along with all other believers would write their Senators and Congresspersons and then if they do not respond refuse to vote for them, change would come. Half the nation are allegedly practicing Christians of one form or another but many do not vote at all and still others are persuaded by professional rhetoricians and party propaganda...in effect they vote the lesser of two evils (at least they think so) but the lesser evil is still evil. The Lord have mercy...
Finally, how many have even heard there is a March for Life? The news won't carry it...the radios will not announce it (except a few Christian Stations)...it is amazing and there are three or four organizations here in my State but a major key here is the voting block...legislative amendment can only come by Constitutional Convention and holding these politicians to their oath to respond to the written consent of their constituency.
God gives each of His children their role to play in bringing about the Kingdom...we are one body but all are not the eye or the mouth...some are the sole of the foot...there are also watchers who blow the trumpet when they see the enemy afar off bringing forth others who prepare for battle as the Lord would use them (such as these in the March)
The final eschaton is inevitable...some of these anti-Christian developments must come to pass before He comes (it helps draw the lines between the true believers, unbelievers, and make believers). Lord by your Spirit help us all in the battles ahead...
As for the church in America (RCC or Otherwise), we indeed go through times of complacency (Lord ignite our spirits)....
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Oh Wonderful Gracious Heavenly Father;
Thank You LORD for Your Mercy and Grace,
Thank You for my Brothers and Sisters whom I will meet in You one day.
Forgive us LORD; for not following You as Your Children deserving an inheritance;
Forgive us for not adhering to Your commandments to Love and Preach and Teach the Gospel.
I ask you Father; bring peace among us, in the Name of your Son Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit.
Thank You LORD for Your Mercy and Grace,
Thank You for my Brothers and Sisters whom I will meet in You one day.
Forgive us LORD; for not following You as Your Children deserving an inheritance;
Forgive us for not adhering to Your commandments to Love and Preach and Teach the Gospel.
I ask you Father; bring peace among us, in the Name of your Son Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit.
MichaelH
Inactive
No denominations has everything right. We are all as children and goofy in many of our ways. Myself included.
Which is why I wonder someone would think they can come in, have Zero scripture to back anything and expect things to go well around those that are WORD MINDED with a whole bunch of scripture to bring into play?
You give views that have no scripture backing, then should you really expect everyone to ohhh and ahhh over you? would it not be best to come in a bit less opinionated based on some denomination?
They claim we don't understand Catholics............ yet i gave a picture of a priest holding a human head!!!!
I suppose some might say I just don't understand the ceremony and bla, bla, bla....... the man is holding a human head on a platter, I don't need an explanation past that and it's not of God and forbidden in scriptures. (That's the stuff of Horror movies folks!!!)
Not one time had I been to my church and the Pastor say.... sorry guys, I forgot the head today, we have to go a bit short.
Being Word of Faith, I got guys that love to blast that denomination. I am at least full of enough of the wisdom of God I don't open myself up to being without proof in Scripture.
There are zero denominations that have everything right....... but come in with this "true church" nonesense and Non-cathloics are in danger of Hell, then at least have the common curtesy to back it with scripture. It's called being prepared. Then don't get your feelings hurt when you can't back up anything because it's not real and mentioned in the word.
Word of Faith folks do that nonsense........... Your not walking in love.... your against my blab it and grab it... boo hooo...... I don't accept it from my own camp and not from anyone else. To believe something about God, God has to have mentioned it in the eternal word.
Let me give a good hint here................ If your right on Scripture, nobody can say a blessed thing about what you believe because the Father in Heaven backs it, as he said it.
I hope this clears things up.
and what denomination are you of if I may ask .. the one called "the way" ???
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let me give you a hint .. the Pharisees knew scripture inside out ..
and Jesus said to them "they will get to heaven before you" ..
DO YOU REALLY NEED FOR ME TO EXPLAIN WHY ???
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Luk 9:52 and He sent messengers on ahead of Him, and they went and entered a village of the Samaritans to make arrangements for Him.
Luk 9:53 But they did not receive Him, because He was traveling toward Jerusalem.
Luk 9:54 When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?”
Luk 9:55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;
Luk 9:56 for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.” And they went on to another village.
Luk 9:53 But they did not receive Him, because He was traveling toward Jerusalem.
Luk 9:54 When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?”
Luk 9:55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;
Luk 9:56 for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.” And they went on to another village.
Right Brother Paul, it hurts to see that those who profess to be Christians yet will end the life of the child inside them, and many times it is in the end of the second trimester and third trimester, and some doctors are talking about ending the life of the child after birth they call it fourth trimester...
As soon as the news is about Christians in our country the news backs off reporting it as it does not fit withing the confine of the agenda of this particular administration. Our Lord Jesus did say that life is precious and He welcomed always children, how this was misconstrued and justified to those who get up and go to mass every Sunday is beyond me, as far as i can see life begins at conception and it is not the child's fault if he/she was conceived even against the will of the mother. As i can see it when the population gets together and has fire for a certain issue then change does come because the number of voters are too great to dismiss, but the media is with this new agenda to destroy anything with the word Christ in it and it will come in my opinion the day that when we do speak of Christ we shall be brought in front of those that will accuse and condemn us.
Let us all be together in the fight of our freedom as lovers of Christ and let us not allow others to divide and keep us apart for the agenda of evil is exactly that, to have us fight one another and not be united as one in Christ fighting the good fight.
MichaelH
Inactive
yes they did, but We are talking about comments made............. Non-Cathloics are in danger of hell then this crying about Catholic bashing. My Statement was that don't cry boo hoo your not walking in love if your willing to make comments that have no scriptural backing. This is a Christian site if I am not mistaken and the TOs does mentioned Using Scripture.
That was want I was referring to...... if you are not prepared then don't make comments about some "True church" If your called on the carpet for it then don't cry about walking-in love, just give the scripture and move on.
I don't take anything here personal and we can be in another thread and it would be as if we did not clash in this one. we are called to walk in love.
Nobody has yet to explain this photo to me though. Why do we feel the need to hold a human head on a platter? I already gave the scriptures against it.
so instead of crying about Catholic bashing, get to explaining with scriptures why there is nothing wrong with this picture. less crying, more explaining with scripture please.
they claim we don't understand, I would like to understand this..............
Both the Hebrews and Samaritans (a mixed Jewish race treated inferior, yet also dercendants of Jacob) knew Mt Gerizim was the place that Moses told Aaron to divided the 12 tribes after entering the promised land .. there is NO source saying to build a temple on Mt Gerizim, the temple there was an unfounded Samaritan idea .. however, there was saying to build the temple in Jerusalem, to which is also the place Abram was told to build an altar after his faith being tested in Isaac's sacrifice, resulting in a covanent with God .. and the place of "Jacob's Ladder" .. also the threshing floor overlooking Jerusalem that King David purchased from Aravnah the Jebusite (2 Samuel, 24:18-25) ..
Jhn 4:9 Therefore the Samaritan woman said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?" (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.)
Jhn 4:12 "You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well, and drank of it himself and his sons and his cattle?"
Jhn 4:20 "Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship."
the Samaritan woman was saying since Mount Gerizim was older, it was holier, not if Jerusalem was the correct site for the Jewish temple ..
Samaritans and Mount Gerizim
The twin peaks of Mount Gerizim and Mount Ebal stand above the Shomron Valley. They may be twins, but they are not identical twins. Mount Ebal is the taller of the twins. Its barren slopes are strewn with gray rocks. This desolate mountain represents the curses that, G-d forbid, could befall the Bnai Yisroel if they do not keep the mitzvos of the Torah. Mount Gerizim, on the other side, has beautiful tree covered slopes and represents the blessings that would come to the Jewish People for following in the ways of the Torah.
Moshe Rabbaynu commanded the Bnai Yisroel that as soon as they crossed the Yarden (Jordan) River they were to take twelve stones from the river bed and build a Mizbayach on top of Mount Ayval. They were to plaster over the twelve stones and carve into the plaster the words of the Torah in all seventy languages. (Deut. 27:1-26)
Six Tribes of the Bnai Yisroel stood by Mount Gerizim and six Tribes stood by Mount Ayval. The Ahron HaKodesh (Holy Ark) was set between the mountains. The Cohanim gathered around the Ahron and the Levi'im gathered around the Cohanim. Everyone turned towards Mount Gerizim and the Levi'im said in a loud voice "Blessed is the man who does not make a stone or metal idol." Everyone called out "Amain!" The people turned and faced Mount Ayval and the Levi'im said "Cursed is the man who does make a stone or metal idol." Everyone called out "Amain!" So they continued, for eleven brochos and eleven curses. (Sotah 32a) Exactly as Moshe Rabbaynu commanded, Yehoshua did soon after crossing the Yarden River. (Josh 8: 30-35)
Mount Gerizim is closely associated with a sect called the Cussim (Cutheans), also called Shomronim (Samaritans).
Many centuries after the Yehoshua divided up the land among the "sh'fatim," the king of Assyria drove the Ten Tribes that lived in the north into Golus. To make it more difficult for them to ever return, the Assyrian king brought in many goyim from foreign countries to take over the homes and land of the Ten Tribes. Many of the foreigners came from a place called Cus. Because of this, all the foreigners were called Cussim (Cutheans). Since the northern district that they took over was called Shomron, they were also called Shomronim (Samaritans).
Of course, the Cussim worshipped "avodah zorah." However, Malbim explains that whereas all the other nations that worshipped "avodah zora" believed in many gods, they did believe that there was a Supreme Being that ruled over all of them. They thought that if you wanted something you had to pray to one of the lower gods. The Supreme Being, they thought, was too busy to attend to your needs. The Cussim did not believe in a Supreme Being at all. They thought the universe was run by a whole committee of lower gods. Because of this, Hashem did not want the Cussim to live in the holy land of Eretz Yisroel.
It wasn't long after the Cussim took over the homes and land of the Ten Tribes that lions started to invade the cities of Shomron. The Cussim feared the lions and they complained to the king of Assyria, "What kind of place have you brought us to?"
The king took one of the Cohanim from Golus and sent him back to Shomron to teach the Cussim about the true Supreme Being, Hashem. The Cussim said that they wished to convert and become Jewish. They wanted to accept the Supreme Being, Hashem. However, they did not wish to give up their belief the lower gods of their religion. And so they worshipped Hashem- and the other gods too. (Kings II 19: 24-41)
There is a major "machlokes" in Shas if the Cussim are to be treated as "goyim" or if they are to be treated as irreligious Jews. Some say that since they only converted to save themselves from the lions, it was an insincere conversion and they are technically still "goyim." Others say that since they wanted to save their lives, they really did want to convert and are considered Jewish; Jews who worship idols.
In either event, the Cussim were not welcomed into the fold of the Bnai Yisroel and there was great friction between the two groups. Years passed, Assyria was swallowed up by Bavel, and Bavel was swallowed up by Medea, and Medea was swallowed up by Persia. The Bnai Yisroel were still in Golus, but now under the Persian kings. Eventually, a Persian king granted the Jews permission to leave the Golus and return to Eretz Yisroel. Upon their arrival in Eterz Yisroel, The Jews immediately began rebuilding the Bais HaMikdash. The Cussim wanted very much to participate in the building of the Bais HaMikdash. They hoped to eventually gain control over the Holy Temple and make it into a place for "avodah zora." The Bnai Yisroel realized all of this and would not allow the Cussim to participate in the building of the Holy Temple.
The Cussim were upset and told the Persian king that the Jews were not building a Bais HaMikdash, but they were building a fortress to fight the Persians. The king ordered the building of the Bais HaMikdash to stop. That king was Achashvayrosh of Purim fame.
It was because of the Cussim that Achashvayrosh had no love for the Jewish people and were almost annihilated, "chas v'sholom," by Haman. Shortly after the death of Achashvayros, his son Koresh (Cyrus) granted the Jews permission to continue the rebuilding of the Bais HaMikdash.
The Cussim were not welcomed into the Bais HaMikdash and decided to build their own Temple. The site they chose was Mt. Gerizim. They knew that it was the mountain of blessing and they claimed that it was the mountain were the "akaidas Yitzchok" took place. They even claimed that the "Luchos," the two tablets with the Ten Commandments, were buried beneath the mountain.
The Gemorah in Yoma tells us a story about the friction between the Jews and the Cussim in the time of Alexander the Great:
The 25th day of Teves* is a day of celebration. No fasting is permitted. It is called Yom Har Gerizim. On that day the Cussim asked Alexander the Great for permission to take over the Bais HaMikdash so they could destroy it. Alexander granted them permission. Shimon HaTzaddik was informed. He dressed himself in the garments of the Cohain Godol and gathered some Jewish nobles. They walked all through the night to meet Alexander. When Alexander saw Shimon HaTzaddik, the emperor got out of his royal carriage and bowed before Shimon. Alexander was being accompanied by some Cussim and the Cussim were puzzled why the mighty emperor would bow before a Jew. Alexander told them that before every battle he dreamt of a holy man that assured him of victory. That holy man was Shimon HaTzaddik.
Alexander granted Shimon any wish. Shimon asked that the Jews be allowed to do to the Temple of the Cussim on Mt. Gerizim what they had plotted to do to the holy Bais HaMikdash. Permission was granted. The Temple of Mt. Gerizim was destroyed and a great celebration by the Jews commemorated that event for many years afterwards. (Yoma 69a)
*in Tamid 27b and in Megilas Ta'anis the date given is 21st of Teves
Over time, the Cussim tried to rebuild their temple. About 150 years after Alexander, their temple on Mt. Gerizim was again destroyed by the Maccabean kings.
Today, there are a few people left who claim to be descendants of the Cussim. A popular tourist attraction is to visit Mt. Gerizim around Pesach time when the Cussim sacrifice their own version of a "korbon Pesach." http://www.campsci.com/iguide/har_gerizim_and_har_ayval.htm
Jhn 4:9 Therefore the Samaritan woman said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?" (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.)
Jhn 4:12 "You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well, and drank of it himself and his sons and his cattle?"
Jhn 4:20 "Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship."
the Samaritan woman was saying since Mount Gerizim was older, it was holier, not if Jerusalem was the correct site for the Jewish temple ..
Samaritans and Mount Gerizim
The twin peaks of Mount Gerizim and Mount Ebal stand above the Shomron Valley. They may be twins, but they are not identical twins. Mount Ebal is the taller of the twins. Its barren slopes are strewn with gray rocks. This desolate mountain represents the curses that, G-d forbid, could befall the Bnai Yisroel if they do not keep the mitzvos of the Torah. Mount Gerizim, on the other side, has beautiful tree covered slopes and represents the blessings that would come to the Jewish People for following in the ways of the Torah.
Moshe Rabbaynu commanded the Bnai Yisroel that as soon as they crossed the Yarden (Jordan) River they were to take twelve stones from the river bed and build a Mizbayach on top of Mount Ayval. They were to plaster over the twelve stones and carve into the plaster the words of the Torah in all seventy languages. (Deut. 27:1-26)
Six Tribes of the Bnai Yisroel stood by Mount Gerizim and six Tribes stood by Mount Ayval. The Ahron HaKodesh (Holy Ark) was set between the mountains. The Cohanim gathered around the Ahron and the Levi'im gathered around the Cohanim. Everyone turned towards Mount Gerizim and the Levi'im said in a loud voice "Blessed is the man who does not make a stone or metal idol." Everyone called out "Amain!" The people turned and faced Mount Ayval and the Levi'im said "Cursed is the man who does make a stone or metal idol." Everyone called out "Amain!" So they continued, for eleven brochos and eleven curses. (Sotah 32a) Exactly as Moshe Rabbaynu commanded, Yehoshua did soon after crossing the Yarden River. (Josh 8: 30-35)
Mount Gerizim is closely associated with a sect called the Cussim (Cutheans), also called Shomronim (Samaritans).
Many centuries after the Yehoshua divided up the land among the "sh'fatim," the king of Assyria drove the Ten Tribes that lived in the north into Golus. To make it more difficult for them to ever return, the Assyrian king brought in many goyim from foreign countries to take over the homes and land of the Ten Tribes. Many of the foreigners came from a place called Cus. Because of this, all the foreigners were called Cussim (Cutheans). Since the northern district that they took over was called Shomron, they were also called Shomronim (Samaritans).
Of course, the Cussim worshipped "avodah zorah." However, Malbim explains that whereas all the other nations that worshipped "avodah zora" believed in many gods, they did believe that there was a Supreme Being that ruled over all of them. They thought that if you wanted something you had to pray to one of the lower gods. The Supreme Being, they thought, was too busy to attend to your needs. The Cussim did not believe in a Supreme Being at all. They thought the universe was run by a whole committee of lower gods. Because of this, Hashem did not want the Cussim to live in the holy land of Eretz Yisroel.
It wasn't long after the Cussim took over the homes and land of the Ten Tribes that lions started to invade the cities of Shomron. The Cussim feared the lions and they complained to the king of Assyria, "What kind of place have you brought us to?"
The king took one of the Cohanim from Golus and sent him back to Shomron to teach the Cussim about the true Supreme Being, Hashem. The Cussim said that they wished to convert and become Jewish. They wanted to accept the Supreme Being, Hashem. However, they did not wish to give up their belief the lower gods of their religion. And so they worshipped Hashem- and the other gods too. (Kings II 19: 24-41)
There is a major "machlokes" in Shas if the Cussim are to be treated as "goyim" or if they are to be treated as irreligious Jews. Some say that since they only converted to save themselves from the lions, it was an insincere conversion and they are technically still "goyim." Others say that since they wanted to save their lives, they really did want to convert and are considered Jewish; Jews who worship idols.
In either event, the Cussim were not welcomed into the fold of the Bnai Yisroel and there was great friction between the two groups. Years passed, Assyria was swallowed up by Bavel, and Bavel was swallowed up by Medea, and Medea was swallowed up by Persia. The Bnai Yisroel were still in Golus, but now under the Persian kings. Eventually, a Persian king granted the Jews permission to leave the Golus and return to Eretz Yisroel. Upon their arrival in Eterz Yisroel, The Jews immediately began rebuilding the Bais HaMikdash. The Cussim wanted very much to participate in the building of the Bais HaMikdash. They hoped to eventually gain control over the Holy Temple and make it into a place for "avodah zora." The Bnai Yisroel realized all of this and would not allow the Cussim to participate in the building of the Holy Temple.
The Cussim were upset and told the Persian king that the Jews were not building a Bais HaMikdash, but they were building a fortress to fight the Persians. The king ordered the building of the Bais HaMikdash to stop. That king was Achashvayrosh of Purim fame.
It was because of the Cussim that Achashvayrosh had no love for the Jewish people and were almost annihilated, "chas v'sholom," by Haman. Shortly after the death of Achashvayros, his son Koresh (Cyrus) granted the Jews permission to continue the rebuilding of the Bais HaMikdash.
The Cussim were not welcomed into the Bais HaMikdash and decided to build their own Temple. The site they chose was Mt. Gerizim. They knew that it was the mountain of blessing and they claimed that it was the mountain were the "akaidas Yitzchok" took place. They even claimed that the "Luchos," the two tablets with the Ten Commandments, were buried beneath the mountain.
The Gemorah in Yoma tells us a story about the friction between the Jews and the Cussim in the time of Alexander the Great:
The 25th day of Teves* is a day of celebration. No fasting is permitted. It is called Yom Har Gerizim. On that day the Cussim asked Alexander the Great for permission to take over the Bais HaMikdash so they could destroy it. Alexander granted them permission. Shimon HaTzaddik was informed. He dressed himself in the garments of the Cohain Godol and gathered some Jewish nobles. They walked all through the night to meet Alexander. When Alexander saw Shimon HaTzaddik, the emperor got out of his royal carriage and bowed before Shimon. Alexander was being accompanied by some Cussim and the Cussim were puzzled why the mighty emperor would bow before a Jew. Alexander told them that before every battle he dreamt of a holy man that assured him of victory. That holy man was Shimon HaTzaddik.
Alexander granted Shimon any wish. Shimon asked that the Jews be allowed to do to the Temple of the Cussim on Mt. Gerizim what they had plotted to do to the holy Bais HaMikdash. Permission was granted. The Temple of Mt. Gerizim was destroyed and a great celebration by the Jews commemorated that event for many years afterwards. (Yoma 69a)
*in Tamid 27b and in Megilas Ta'anis the date given is 21st of Teves
Over time, the Cussim tried to rebuild their temple. About 150 years after Alexander, their temple on Mt. Gerizim was again destroyed by the Maccabean kings.
Today, there are a few people left who claim to be descendants of the Cussim. A popular tourist attraction is to visit Mt. Gerizim around Pesach time when the Cussim sacrifice their own version of a "korbon Pesach." http://www.campsci.com/iguide/har_gerizim_and_har_ayval.htm
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If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a ditch....
If it be of God, we cannot fight against it...
If it be of God, we cannot fight against it...