Flesh and Bones

[geralduk]

Brother, you do know that the Holy Spirit is not Jesus Christ!!! neither is the Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit. This is why scripture tells us to "examine yourself, do you not know that Jesus Christ is in you unless you be of a reprobate mind" (2 Cor 13:5)

Can a person be "born of the Spirit", and yet not be filled with the Spirit? Whats the deal there? Do we have to be filled with the Holy Spirit before Jesus Christ dwells inside his Church? Absolutely not!!! Why? Because the Holy Spirit is not Jesus Christ!!!

A logic founded upon a false premise no matter how logical will always arrive at a false conclusion.

As you are fixed on your assumptions and 'reasoning' neither wishing to go to all scripture on the subject nor listen to anybody who might direct you in the right direction .I take my leave .
Only to say ypu need to go to all the scripture that pertains to the Holy Spirit .
and learn from Him .

in Christ
gerald

 

[Major]

As long as you are 100% sure in what you believe is true, and not doubt, or else that is sin. "......What ever is not of faith is sin" (Romans 14:23)

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I just hate to see your error here. Now I am no expert and certainly no theologian but this seems like a no-brainer to me. But that is just me.

It seems to me that the ascension creates a paradigm shift. The truth is not that Jesus became a baby at Christmas, and then 33 years later came the resurrection and ascension and then he stopped being a man. That just does not make any logical sense at all and does not comply with the Scriptures.The resurrection demonstrates the incarnation is not temporary.

Luke 24:43 says that after the resurrection Jesus ate a meal........
"And He took it and did eat before them".

Luke 24:39 says that He had a body............................
"Behold my HANDS and my FEET, that it is I myself, HANDLE me, and see; for a spirit HATH NOT flesh and bones as you see me have".

It must be me that does not understand your thinking on this because I do not see how you can read the words right out of Scripture and still form the opinion that you seem to have.

But still it could be wondered if having defeated death in the resurrection, when it came time to going back to Heaven, Christ might have said “time’s up, no sense in being a man any more” and shed himself of a body and retake the form (or lack of form) inherent in being the second member of the trinity.

He could have “dissolved” or “disappeared,” but instead He physically ascended to a place, from which he will physically return to earth in the same physical body.

Zechariah 14:4 says clearly that the Messiah will be in a human body:.............
"And HIS FEET shall stand in that day.................................".

So Jesus became a man (first coming, incarnation), defeated death and assumed his eternal body as a man (resurrection), and went back to Heaven as a man (ascension) and will return as a man (second coming; and as our firstfruits raising our self-same bodies as bodies like his). He will reign over the New Earth as the God-man. He has become a permanent member of the human race.

 

[Major]

Sister, are you trying to say I am being steadfast in what I believe? I would say that is a good thing.

Now that I agree with totally! It is just that you must make sure that what you believe it Biblically true.

 

[Major]

Brother, is Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit? Is God the Father Jesus Christ? Is the Holy Spirit God the Father? If you don't know the answer, the answer is no!! They are separate but "one" Lord. Is God "one"? What makes God one? Does God have a body? What is his body? What makes God "one" is his body!!! Who is God's body?

Col 2:9.. For in him (Jesus Christ) the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Can a man have the Father without the Son? Nope. Can a person have the Holy Spirit without the Son? Nope! Without Jesus Christ you can not have any part of God, because all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus Christ.

Who is Jesus? He is the Glory of the Father.

But isn't He also a glorified man, the Second person of the Trinity and as such, God???

Philippians 3:20–21 ...........
" But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself."

Rev. 1:12-18...........
"I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.”

I do not know that you are right. I really do not know if I am right. What I do know is that the Scriptures are ALLWAYS RIGHT and to me they are saying that Jesus has indeed a body and I am confident that He is going to transform me into the same kind of body He has now.

If you choose not to believe that, then all blessing and love to you. I do hope that you are in for a great surprise!!!!

 

[CCW95A]

But isn't He also a glorified man, the Second person of the Trinity and as such, God???

A man does need to have a physical body to be called a man. He just had to start out with one, but, man does not need one after receiving a spiritual body.

Heb 12:23.. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

 

[CCW95A]

I do not know that you are right. I really do not know if I am right. What I do know is that the Scriptures are ALLWAYS RIGHT and to me they are saying that Jesus has indeed a body and I am confident that He is going to transform me into the same kind of body He has now.

There is no doubt Jesus has a body right now, but it is not made up of flesh, and bone, but a glorious spiritual body which we too will have at his return.
After all he does live inside us.

 

[CCW95A]

A logic founded upon a false premise no matter how logical will always arrive at a false conclusion.

As you are fixed on your assumptions and 'reasoning' neither wishing to go to all scripture on the subject nor listen to anybody who might direct you in the right direction .I take my leave .
Only to say ypu need to go to all the scripture that pertains to the Holy Spirit .
and learn from Him .

in Christ
gerald

Been there, done that!! Besides I don't use reasoning that will get you no where.

 

[Major]

There is no doubt Jesus has a body right now, but it is not made up of flesh, and bone, but a glorious spiritual body which we too will have at his return.
After all he does live inside us.

I always thought that it was the Holy Spirit, the 3rd person of the Trinity that indwelled the believer.

 

[CCW95A]

I always thought that it was the Holy Spirit, the 3rd person of the Trinity that indwelled the believer.

You cannot have the Holy Spirit without first having the Son of God, for it is in Jesus Christ that all the fullness of the Godhead dwells.

 

[Major]

A man does need to have a physical body to be called a man. He just had to start out with one, but, man does not need one after receiving a spiritual body.

Heb 12:23.. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

How do you get to the fact that Jesus stopped being a man when He resurrected???? How did He stop being a man when He ascended????

I love talking with you brother but I really do not know how that would take place and I do not find anything like that in the Scriptures.

In rising from the dead and ascending to heaven Christ did not cease to be human by discarding His humanity like a old used garment that was no longer necessary. As the Scriptures say which I posted for you, the Bible tells us that He rose again and ascended as a human, a glorified MAN-GOD.

 

[Major]

You cannot have the Holy Spirit without first having the Son of God, for it is in Jesus Christ that all the fullness of the Godhead dwells.

Of course not. That is not the point made or the conclusion. That is Christian doctrine 101!!!!


2 Tim. 1:14.............

"Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you."

 

[Major]

A man does need to have a physical body to be called a man. He just had to start out with one, but, man does not need one after receiving a spiritual body.

Heb 12:23.. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The Bible teaches that the resurrection is a transformation of the same bodies we had on earth. As humans, we are not just spiritual, but physical. Our bodies are a very important part of our identity--they are part of who we are. Therefore, if we deny that we are raised with the same bodies we had on earth, we are denying a significant part of our identity. At the same time, if we deny that our resurrected bodies are transformed, we are left with the depressing idea that we will forever be subject to the weaknesses we now have, such as sickness, fatigue.

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/do-we-receive-the-same-body-we-had-on-earth-at-the-resurrection
There are many Scriptural reasons for believing that we will be raised with the same body that died.

First, Christ was raised in the same body He had before He died. We know this because the tomb was empty and because His resurrected body retained scars from the crucifixion (John 20:25, 27). Since Christ's resurrection is the pattern that our resurrection will follow (Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Cor. 15:49), then we will also be raised with the same body.

Second, this is also evident from the very meaning of the term "resurrection of the dead" (1 Corinthians 15:13, etc.). The phrase means: that which is dead (namely, our body) is made alive. If the same body that died is not the body that was raised, Paul could not call it the "resurrection of the dead."

Third, the phrase "the dead will be raised" (1 Cor. 15:52) also communicates this. If God meant to start all over with no continuity between the body I have now and the one I will have, why would Paul say 'the dead will be raised? Why would he not say, 'the dead will not be raised (since they are decomposed and their molecules are scattered into plants and animals for a thousand miles) and so God will start from scratch'?

Fourth, Philippians 3:20-1 says that our earthly body is transformed into conformity with Christ's body in the resurrection, not that God creates a new body from scratch: "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself."

Fifth, Jesus speaks of the resurrection as involving the coming forth out of tombs, which strongly indicates that the resurrection is the reanimation of the body that had been lied to rest originally: "An hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment" (John 5:28-29).

Sixth, Paul's statement "it is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body" (1 Corinthians 15:42) establishes that there is a continuity between our current body and our resurrected body, for it is the same "it" in both cases.

Seventh, verse 53 indicates that the same body we have now (which is mortal), will become immortal: "For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."

You said many, many times that you only accept the Scripture as your source of truth. I agree with you! How then do you explain all of these Bible truths IF they do not declare that we will have glorified bodies just like Jesus has?

 

[CCW95A]

Of course not. That is not the point made or the conclusion. That is Christian doctrine 101!!!!


2 Tim. 1:14.............

"Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you."

Brother how do you suppose one gets the Holy Spirit? Do you first filled with the Spirit, and then get born again, or does one get born again, and then receive the Spirit.
How does one get born again, and by what means? "Being born again of the incorruptible seed of Word of God......"

 

[CCW95A]

How do you get to the fact that Jesus stopped being a man when He resurrected???? How did He stop being a man when He ascended????

What are you talking about? I never said Jesus stopped being a man!!! What is that all about?

 

[CCW95A]

How do you get to the fact that Jesus stopped being a man when He resurrected???? How did He stop being a man when He ascended????

I love talking with you brother but I really do not know how that would take place and I do not find anything like that in the Scriptures.

In rising from the dead and ascending to heaven Christ did not cease to be human by discarding His humanity like a old used garment that was no longer necessary. As the Scriptures say which I posted for you, the Bible tells us that He rose again and ascended as a human, a glorified MAN-GOD.

Brother you have a very warped idea of what a man is. All men must first be born of the water (physical birth), and then be born of the Spirit. Once a man dies he no longer needs his physical body to be called a man which is why I quoted this scripture.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

These people are spirits, and they are called men!!!

 

[CCW95A]

Rev. 1:12-18...........
"I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.”

Does this sound and look like a man who has a flesh, and bone body? Did Jesus's face shine like the sun in it's strength while he showed himself to all of his disciples? Was Jesus's hair ever "white as wool" while walking in his physical body? Jesus here is glorified in his supernatural spiritual body!!!

 

[CCW95A]

The Bible teaches that the resurrection is a transformation of the same bodies we had on earth. As humans, we are not just spiritual, but physical. Our bodies are a very important part of our identity--they are part of who we are. Therefore, if we deny that we are raised with the same bodies we had on earth, we are denying a significant part of our identity. At the same time, if we deny that our resurrected bodies are transformed, we are left with the depressing idea that we will forever be subject to the weaknesses we now have, such as sickness, fatigue.

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/do-we-receive-the-same-body-we-had-on-earth-at-the-resurrection
There are many Scriptural reasons for believing that we will be raised with the same body that died.

First, Christ was raised in the same body He had before He died. We know this because the tomb was empty and because His resurrected body retained scars from the crucifixion (John 20:25, 27). Since Christ's resurrection is the pattern that our resurrection will follow (Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Cor. 15:49), then we will also be raised with the same body.

Second, this is also evident from the very meaning of the term "resurrection of the dead" (1 Corinthians 15:13, etc.). The phrase means: that which is dead (namely, our body) is made alive. If the same body that died is not the body that was raised, Paul could not call it the "resurrection of the dead."

Third, the phrase "the dead will be raised" (1 Cor. 15:52) also communicates this. If God meant to start all over with no continuity between the body I have now and the one I will have, why would Paul say 'the dead will be raised? Why would he not say, 'the dead will not be raised (since they are decomposed and their molecules are scattered into plants and animals for a thousand miles) and so God will start from scratch'?

Fourth, Philippians 3:20-1 says that our earthly body is transformed into conformity with Christ's body in the resurrection, not that God creates a new body from scratch: "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself."

Fifth, Jesus speaks of the resurrection as involving the coming forth out of tombs, which strongly indicates that the resurrection is the reanimation of the body that had been lied to rest originally: "An hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment" (John 5:28-29).

Sixth, Paul's statement "it is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body" (1 Corinthians 15:42) establishes that there is a continuity between our current body and our resurrected body, for it is the same "it" in both cases.

Seventh, verse 53 indicates that the same body we have now (which is mortal), will become immortal: "For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."

You said many, many times that you only accept the Scripture as your source of truth. I agree with you! How then do you explain all of these Bible truths IF they do not declare that we will have glorified bodies just like Jesus has?

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Is Jesus called the last Adam? What was he made to be? A life giving spirit!!! What did Jesus say a spirit does not have? Flesh, and bone.

1Co 15:37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain.

I don't know about you, but I don't want the same body I have now in the resurrection, do you? Thank God it will not be the same!!!

 

[Major]

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Is Jesus called the last Adam? What was he made to be? A life giving spirit!!! What did Jesus say a spirit does not have? Flesh, and bone.

1Co 15:37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain.

I don't know about you, but I don't want the same body I have now in the resurrection, do you? Thank God it will not be the same!!!

NO, it will not be the same body but instead it will be a glorified body.

 

[Major]

Does this sound and look like a man who has a flesh, and bone body? Did Jesus's face shine like the sun in it's strength while he showed himself to all of his disciples? Was Jesus's hair ever "white as wool" while walking in his physical body? Jesus here is glorified in his supernatural spiritual body!!!

As has been said several times now......it is a "Glorified" body and yes it sounds and looks just like what one who look like if we could visualize it. The difference is that John saw it. Do you believe that John was lieing about what he saw.

 

[Major]

What are you talking about? I never said Jesus stopped being a man!!! What is that all about?

From you my brother. One of several posts is #26.........
"There is no doubt Jesus has a body right now, but it is not made up of flesh, and bone, but a glorious spiritual body which we too will have at his return.
After all he does live inside us.