That is a really uplifting account! Personally...…...I wouldn't change a thing!
I pray that God will do more for you and your family than you can do for them!
Follow Jesus even if it gets difficult
- Thread starter Charles Graham
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That is a really uplifting account! Personally...…...I wouldn't change a thing!
I pray that God will do more for you and your family than you can do for them!
Hi Major, I am also very familiar with Kenneth Hagin. I was hesitant to say his name and now I see I shouldn't have. Please don't get this thread closed.
There is nothing you can say that will turn me against K. Hagin and for one very good reason. In his crusades he usually does a healing line but 1 particular night he did something different that he said rarely happens. He was lead by the HS to pray for certain people in the congregation, and I was one of those people. This happened in 1992. That night changed my life. That's all I'm going to say because I perceive I can't change your mind. He knew the things people were saying about him and he explained why they're false. It was good enough for me, he laid my fears to rest. That was all I needed.
So from now on I will talk about faith without mentioning Bro Hagin.
Hello Major;
Thank you for pointing out and respecting the mix of 3.0 in the Forum Rules. Mr. Hagin's name is being mentioned mildly in this thread and the facts you state are not rumors, but unfortunately, credible.
I'll moderate this thread and with the support of the staff, monitor the ongoing posts.
In our study of the Pentecostal Movement starting with the Azusa Street Revival in 1906, the Charismatic Movement at the end of the 1950s, going into the 1960s known as “the Second Wave” saw the form of the Movement doctrine, practice of the Spiritual gifts, the roots of the Pentecostals and Charismatic Movements that are deeply connected within the Holiness Movement.
Mr. Hagin's ministry, The Word of Faith led revivals and evangelisms becoming so diverse that it took off like wildfire. But at the same time his ministry's doctrine and teaching was questionable in the Christian community, theologians, Christian scholars and even within the Pentecostal church.
Many Christians give a solid testimony of Mr. Hagin's teachings while others have or had a different encounter. In 1995 I served at a Pentecostal church under the doctrine of Mr. Hagin and his Pastors from Rhema College. While attending a men's retreat at Ski Mountain in California 3 pastors surrounded me during prayer time, put their hands on my stomach and asked me to feel the Holy Spirit in my stomach come up out of me. Of course nothing came of it and this procedure wasn't anywhere in Scripture. My wife and I respectfully left the church two months later.
There are thousands upon thousands of believers today who still worship in the Pentecostal Movement. Just like thousands upon thousands who worship in other denominations.
The truth is, take away the movements and denominations, and many of these same believers, coming together as one body in Christ, apply the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness, resulting in His Agape love.
Another truth. When Jesus comes back to judge, He will point out all the flaws and imperfections of our doctrines and denominations as He did with the Pharisees, Sadducees, Sanhedrin to the Seven Churches in Revelation 2 (though Philadelphia was not rebuked.) This is inevitable. The question is, did we give a cup of cold water to a brother, did we lay hands on the sick and pray over them? Did we give our lives for Christ?
Did we follow Jesus even if it gets difficult?
God bless you, Pastor, and your family.
Hello brother John T.;
God bless you and no worries. The forum rules were not broken with confrontation or unhealthy divide and stayed within the confines of Christian Forum Site fellowship.
Thank you, John, for sharing your testimony, convictions, and for everyone in this topic that kept the fellowship filled with listening, learning and most of all, Love for one another, for His glory.
All good information "Bobbin"! Thank you for your input and thoughts.
I appreciate the fact that we are allowed to discuss this subject. I just hope that it can be done in LOVE and compassion without arguments as IMO we all should be in pursuit of the truth as it is found n the Word of God which is why I used so many LINKS so that it could be clearly seen that I am not giving my personal "Opinions".
My one and only cause is that the truth of God's Word be upheld at all costs and I have no intent on changing anyone's choices in how they believe they should worship and follow Christ and I am not and will not argue anyone's choices.
That being said, I think most everyone here is aware that I was brought up in the Pentecostal religion. My concerns began to grow as I grew older and began to actually READ the Scriptures and began to observe how different what I was taught as to what I was actually reading.
There was an obvious disconnect.
It was that "disconnect" which moved me to spend years in Bible study, NOT denominational theology and religion to find the truth.
Now then........as a matter of fact, I admire and actually teach my church that we all need to be "ENTHUSASTICALLY MOTIVATED" in worship services.
The Baptist, and Methodist and Prysperterian, and 7 Day Adventist and Catholic as well as all other Christian denominations IMO should want to raise their hands, and shout praise to God.
When we read the Scriptures we see over and over that God's people were vocal in their praises to God. The church must be a Hothouse of praise or it will turn into a FREEZER.
However, remember that when emotionalism replaces doctrinal Biblical truth, we then have left God's best for our own desire and there is the danger.
I will be blessed to talk with anyone over and or about what is included in the Scriptures and what is not.
I hope that you understood that I have NO desire to turn you away from anyone whom you have grown to know and love. I hope that I was clear on that and I have no desire to close this thread or in any way harm the memory of Mr. Hagin.
The only thing that matters in life is truth. I am sure you will agree with that. Then what is truth?????????
John 17:17-23 ...……..
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth."
If we are civil and respectful I am pretty sure we can talk about this and the mods will allow it.
I am very happy that you were blessed by your experience.
Having said that, you must also know that what you experienced does not happen to everyone. God bless you my friend and please know that because we may differ on somethings, we are brothers in Christ.
I know this better than you might think because the night I was prayed for I was there with a friend who didn't get prayed for, the result of this was she couldn't understand why I had to do the things I did in the following months. I only mentioned Hagin's name because he's part of my history. Before I read Hagin's books I knew little to nothing of modern day healing. Although I learned shortly after joining my 1st church that not all Christians believe God still heals. I even met a young woman once who said when such healings happen, if they happen, that it's the devil who is making them happen. I don't believe that. I only mentioned it so you'd know I'm well aware of all the various beliefs held by Christians. I just want to say 1 last thing concerning Bro. Hagin. I don't agree with everything he said. He was just like the rest of us, right some times but wrong at other times.
John.....the comment of, "Although I learned shortly after joining my 1st church that not all Christians believe God still heals." is in MY opinion incorrect.
I personally do not know of any Christian who does not believe that God heals. God heals physical illness!!!!
The separation is that there are many people who DO NOT believe that a man or woman has the power/ability to heal because man is not God.
James 5:13-16...…...….
“Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much”.
The actual doctrinal teaching of this subject is called ...."CESSATIONALISM".
Cessationism is the view that the “SIGN gifts” given to the Apostles have ceased—that the end of the apostolic age brought about a cessation/end of the miracles associated with that age. ALL Cessationists that I know of, believe that, while God can and still does perform miracles today, the Holy Spirit no longer uses individuals to perform miraculous signs simply because there are NO APOSTLES TODAY.
This doctrine is based on the actual words found in The Bible in 2 Corinthians 13:8.............
1 Corinthians 13.8 …...…..
"Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away."
These gifts, including physical healing come under the umbrella of "APOSTOLIC SIGN GIFTS". The SIGN GIFTS were given to the Apostles by the Lord Jesus to authenticate who they were and that they were speaking for God.
Mark 16:14-18............
"Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
THAT is the Great Commission which was given to the ELEVEN (plus Paul later) disciples who became the Apostles. They could do what Jesus did including raising the dead.
Now, if we or anyone holds to the idea that physical healing is still able to be done by individuals, we then open the door to several problems which actually CAN NOT BE ANSWERED by those who believe in the healing done by A MAN.
It can be clearly seen in the Scriptures that as the era of the apostles drew to a close, healing, like tongues, became less and less frequent. Examples...….
1. The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead in Acts 20:9-12, did not heal Epaphroditus in Philippians 2:25-27. The question must be WHY NOT?,
2. Paul did not heal Trophimus in 2 Tim. 4:20. Again we must then ask WHY NOT?????
3. Paul did not heal Timothy in 1 Tim. 5:23. Same question is still....WHY NOT????,
4. Paul did not even himself as seen in 2 Corth. 12:7-9. WHY NOT?????
I believe that the reasons for Paul’s “failures to heal” in these examples are...…….
1) the gift was never intended to make every Christian well, but to authenticate apostleship;
2) the authority of the apostles had been sufficiently proved, making further miracles unnecessary.
Amen!!!!!
IF.....if we place our faith in something said or done by a man, we better make real sure that he is right all the time or else we fall into the problem to which the Scriptures warn us of in Matthew 7:15 ………...
"Beware of false prophets, who are wolves in sheep's clothing. Many people who follow their teachings will think they are pleasing to God, but will be rejected because they have not done His will".
Only God is right ALL of the time!
That is good to note.