Do you not believe in three manifestations of God?
Yes, you're the only one on this thread. Thanks for answering. It only serves to help me understand your premise.I believe in the triunity of Father, Son and Spirit. I don't adhere to the doctrine of modalism or oneness. I don't know if that's what you were asking (or if your question was even directed at me).
To be sure I thought you might be talking to Great Fiction.Yes, you're the only one on this thread. Thanks for answering. It only serves to help me understand your premise.
For Great Fiction, or anyone else who is a non-trinitarian Christian, please discuss the views about the nature of God here.
For me, the newest way I've come to understand Trinitarian montheism is three books, translated in different languages, that nevertheless say the same thing.
Do you not believe in three manifestations of God?
I believe the word of God. I chose "manifestations" (An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something) as the word because it seems everyone is hung up on lables.Abdicate, do you believe in three manifestations?
If so do you also believe that constitutes in description the "oneness doctrine?"
I've gotten into this with some people on another forum too. I've been tempted to use the triunion of body, soul and spirit as an analogy to God also, but I don't think it matches the doctrine itself. In the complete doctrine each person in the Trinity is completely one God, and together they are also completely one God.I believe the word of God. I chose "manifestations" (An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something) as the word because it seems everyone is hung up on lables.
The word of God says (exact phrases):
Oneness... again, I can only go by what the word of God says:
- Spirit of the Lord - 31 verses (Spirit of God - 26 verses)
- Son of God - 47 verses
- God the Father - 13 verses
John 10:30 KJV I and [my] Father are one.
John 17:21 KJV That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
There are 7 verses with the exact phrase "One God". Then there's this verse which keeps the Jews from believing in Jesus:
Deu 6:4 KJV Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
Bear with me and so let me just say this. Since God is, wouldn't it be correct to state that anything from God is God? Can God reside in a house? What about His name? That's what He told Solomon. We think it a figure of speech, but what if it's a reality?
1Ki 8:29 KJV - 29 That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, [even] toward the place of which thou hast said, My name shall be there: that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place.
God spoke everything in to existance and the Word became Flesh. Everything that was made was made by the Word, JOhn 1:1-3. And the Word is all and in all, Col 3:11.
So how can this verse be true if Jesus and the Father are One "Being" (His name in Hebrew literally - "I exist)"?
Mat 27:46 KJV - 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
So this leads back to man. What is it that "I am"? I HAVE a spirit. I HAVE a body (dust). I HAVE a soul.
Ecc 12:7 KJV Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The key is this verse. It speaks of the body (dust) and the spirit (life) returning to their origins, but what of the soul, the entity that is made from the combination of the two, Gen 2:7? Heaven or Hell - it is eternal too.
I am one person, but I have three manifestations. I don't think I could have written a shorter answer.
I mentioned this on the other thread but will repeat it for those on this thread.
I am a Monotheistic Trinitarian
I think your analogy regarding three books is insightful
I would say in the past that I believe the God-head is three "Persons." I no longer term the God-head using "Persons" and now use the word "Distinctions," since the word "Persons" is a human concept here in the natural. The three "Distinctions" however are Supreme beings acting as a single unit. Yet this is simply what I embrace
I believe the word of God. I chose "manifestations" (An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something) as the word because it seems everyone is hung up on lables.
The word of God says (exact phrases):
Oneness... again, I can only go by what the word of God says:
- Spirit of the Lord - 31 verses (Spirit of God - 26 verses)
- Son of God - 47 verses
- God the Father - 13 verses
KJV I and [my] Father are one.
1 KJV That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
There are 7 verses with the exact phrase "One God". Then there's this verse which keeps the Jews from believing in Jesus:
Deu 6:4 KJV Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
Bear with me and so let me just say this. Since God is, wouldn't it be correct to state that anything from God is God? Can God reside in a house? What about His name? That's what He told Solomon. We think it a figure of speech, but what if it's a reality?
1 V - 29 That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, [even] toward the place of which thou hast said, My name shall be there: that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place.
God spoke everything in to existance and the Word became Flesh. Everything that was made was made by the Word, JOhn 1:1-3. And the Word is all and in all, .
So how can this verse be true if Jesus and the Father are One "Being" (His name in Hebrew literally - "I exist)"?
KJV - 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
So this leads back to man. What is it that "I am"? I HAVE a spirit. I HAVE a body (dust). I HAVE a soul.
Ecc 12:7 KJV Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The key is this verse. It speaks of the body (dust) and the spirit (life) returning to their origins, but what of the soul, the entity that is made from the combination of the two, ? Heaven or Hell - it is eternal too.
I am one person, but I have three manifestations. I don't think I could have written a shorter answer.
I'm sorry if I misrepresented you beliefs, Great Fiction. I wasn't sure if Seventh day Adventists were Unitarian or not.
Trinitarian monotheist confuses the order and is a type of unintentional heresy...the Bible teaches there is only one God, YHVH...
YHVH is the Father, YHVH is the Word/Son, and YHVH is the Holy Spirit but there are not three YHVH's...as God He is one and only one, as the Father He is not the Son nor the Spirit, as the Word/Son He is not the Father or the Spirit, and as the Spirit He is neither the Father or the Son...
Subject/object dialogues in the Scriptures and their difference demonstrate this...for example only the Father knows the day and hour of Messiahs (the Word's of Son's) return, only the Son suffered the Cross, only the Spirit convicts us of sin...(a bit simplified but you get the idea)
The order (and we get this view more clear in the Athanasian Creed) is the One as three and the three in unity, not the other way around. Semantics? I say not at all...a very important distinction that leads to a form of tri-theism....in the Greek we understand God as one Ousia in three Hypostases...in the Latin, one God in three personae, in the Hebrew the yachid (numerically one) God is echad (a unity)
The disciples were illiminated to the fact that the one God (montheism) had revealed Himself in three distinct persons (the tri-unity)...so IMHO Monotheistic Trinitarianism is how we should have been taught, not triniteraian monotheism (a three headed god or a corporation)....I AM YHVH and there is NONE else....
Only consistent singular personal pronouns even when associated with His plurality...when you pray do you imagine a threeness or one God...
Think about this because it is NOT modalism (now disguised by the name oneness which makes "Jesus" not the Word/Son who became incarnate as the man Jesus, but actually the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit)
I'm not savvy on "religious" terminology, so when I'm asked to explain "my" beliefs, I can only give them the word of God as I understand them in relation to other verses. Communication is based on a common language and if we can't agree on the word of God then what can be agreed upon seeing how the word of God is the foundation of our understanding of God and things spiritual. Even then I still have to pull up a dictionary. I've become so untrusting of what I've been taught I installed an app in Chrome where I can double click on any word and the dictionary definition pops up. I've discovered massive amount of deception in the church this way. I also find that people want you to use specific terminology so they can quickly, and usually inaccurately, judge you, not really seeking the truth. Most people come on here to show their prowess and yet they themselves know nothing, only regurgitating what others have said. No heart knowledge, only head knowledge, which is really useless because it doesn't affect society in a positive way. Ok... now I'm rambling... Forgive me @Great Fiction, I usually have a very hard time understanding you. I read and reread what you write, but it just escapes me, so forgive my ignorance if I don't respond properly or positively.I once communicated with a person who would in every answer provide scripture. That person was then criticised by others who said, "Why don't you speak for yourself regarding what these scriptures mean?" The person responded, "I prefer to always remain correct, as who can argue with the Word of God?"
I only asked because the terminology is synonymous with Oneness Pentecostal preaching that support a oneness doctrine. A lot of my family relatives are Oneness Pentecostal. I was just curious.
I appreciate your scriptural approach to argument
Ah. I personally don't think oneness is that unorthodox, although it is contrary to orthodoxy. Mostly I just think churches are upset that they would adopt a theology that has already been denounced as unorthodox.It is no problem Godspell, I find your method of thought interesting. I appreciate your kind consideration.
I am a member of a Non-Denominational Church, but I was raised Oneness Pentecostal. My father was a Pentecostal preacher.
So GF what do you think about this statement of Athanasius who defended orthodoxy against the Arians?
I'm not savvy on "religious" terminology, so when I'm asked to explain "my" beliefs, I can only give them the word of God as I understand them in relation to other verses. Communication is based on a common language and if we can't agree on the word of God then what can be agreed upon seeing how the word of God is the foundation of our understanding of God and things spiritual. Even then I still have to pull up a dictionary. I've become so untrusting of what I've been taught I installed an app in Chrome where I can double click on any word and the dictionary definition pops up. I've discovered massive amount of deception in the church this way. I also find that people want you to use specific terminology so they can quickly, and usually inaccurately, judge you, not really seeking the truth. Most people come on here to show their prowess and yet they themselves know nothing, only regurgitating what others have said. No heart knowledge, only head knowledge, which is really useless because it doesn't affect society in a positive way. Ok... now I'm rambling... Forgive me @Great Fiction, I usually have a very hard time understanding you. I read and reread what you write, but it just escapes me, so forgive my ignorance if I don't respond properly or positively.
Ah. I personally don't think oneness is that unorthodox, although it is contrary to orthodoxy. Mostly I just think churches are upset that they would adopt a theology that has already been denounced as unorthodox.