Forgive To Be Forgiven

Xian Pugilist said:
I never out that verse together with matt 25, ty, that was worth everything to see....
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unfortunately, this isn't preached by many, as it flies in the face of most, but can you imagine if it were?
How people would genuinely be cut to the heart just like when Peter delivered his discourse in Acts 2!!!

But we live in perilous times as Paul said to Timothy and it is more true today in the "church" than we like to admit.
It is why divorce has skyrocketed.
I hear pastors now saying God would rather you divorce than be miserable.
What they should be saying is God hates divorce and if you're NOT doing what God says works, then you've got nobody to blame but yourself.

But that's another topic for another thread.

Pray for God's Word to be taught as it was during the days of Paul and Peter!!!

Pray that pastors everywhere will start talking about the IF'S that are everywhere in scripture!
 
Love is not the same as obedience. That is fear pushing us to interpret things in a way that makes us ok. If you love you are obedient, if you are obedient may not mean you love, could be fear. God isn't a fascist.
 
Let me clarify, obedience to the Word of God is LOVE for God and it is NOT difficult as it comes from His Spirit working in us. LOVE for God and for others is the "new nature" and it is IMPOSSIBLE in the flesh.
There is "trying" to adhere to the "LAW", but that is NOT obedience from the heart.
In other words if we are extremely wealthy and give $100,000 or $1000,000 to gospel for asia, but what God has asked is that we go to uganda and preach the gospel, are we being obedient?
The fruit of the Spirit is LOVE!
That LOVE is translated as obedience and it is everywhere in scripture as such.
The greatest aspect of this is it makes the war between the flesh and the Spirit very evident DAILY!

Make NO mistake, we CANNOT please God in our flesh.
The only thing that pleases God is God.
And it is God working IN the believer to will and to do that which pleases God.
Not by might, nor by power, but by His Spirit and the fruit of His Spirit is LOVE.
LOVE fulfills the LAW.
Not everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom, but those who do the will of My Father.

His will is to let Him LOVE through us as He did in Jesus.
If the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He will strengthen your mortal body.
He will strenthen your mortal body to obey.
But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.

This is everywhere in scripture.

Which brings up another good point.
What does grace do?
We know what it is, unmerited favor.
But what does it do?
It works!
It labors!
It is God's ability given to those of us who have become partakers of His Divine Nature in order to live a life that is pleasing to Him.

Why did He tell Paul "my grace is sufficient for you."?
See what Paul says in 1 Cor 15:10
I labored more abundantly than you all, yet NOT i, but the GRACE OF GOD with me.

Sorry, don't mean to ramble.
Haven't been on forums in quite some time and it's like a fire in my bones!
 
:) I think you are dead on but one small point, and it doesn't matter in the big picture, so I'll take it to my grave!

TY for clarification. So many out there think they show their love by forcing obedience on themselves, I'm glad you are far from that!
:)
 
:) I think you are dead on but one small point, and it doesn't matter in the big picture, so I'll take it to my grave!

TY for clarification. So many out there think they show their love by forcing obedience on themselves, I'm glad you are far from that!
:)
 
Servant in San Jose said:
forced obedience only produces pride and frustration, and is really not obedience at all as true obedience is only possible in the power of the Holy Spirit.
The flesh profits NOTHING!
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True obedience to God can only come from LOVE which is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15)

“Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves m.e” (John 14:21)

If we want to know what it means to love God, John tells us,
“This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments.” (1 John 5:3)
 
For the record, those aren't "gifts" of the Spirit.
Those are results of being matured in Love.

In other words, you can't say, I LOVE, and then use these as proof to say you keep them, or whatever other verses. If you are walking by the Spirit (keeping the commandments), then you won't give into temptations of the flesh, at all. If you still do, give in, sometimes, you have yet to walk in the Spirit.

If you are indwelled by the Spirit you are no longer in the flesh. If you still are pushed into sin by the Flesh, then you are not yet indwelled by the Spirit.

To claim you are obedient because you are Xian and love your neighbor, is an empty claim/self-promotion, if the rest of the fruits/results of that indwelling Spirit aren't present.
 
Major said:
True obedience to God can only come from LOVE which is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15)

“Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves m.e” (John 14:21)

If we want to know what it means to love God, John tells us,
“This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments.” (1 John 5:3)
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i believe the fruit of the Spirit is LOVE. and the 5 markers following that in Gal 5 are the outpouring of that LOVE in action.

Also, keeping the commandment of God is LOVE (Agape) and is only possible by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus asked Peter; "Simon son of John, do you agape me?"
Peter replied; "Lord You know i filleo You.

This is because Peter did NOT come to know agape or demonstrate it until after the comforter came to lead into ALL truth and empower those who believe to agape others, as He first agape us.
You mentioned 1 Joh 5:3, but the last part of that verse is most important, as it says "and His commandments are NOT burdensome/grievous.
This is because it is Him, His power working mightily in us to will and to do the things that are pleasing to Him.

Blessings
 
Servant in San Jose said:
i believe the fruit of the Spirit is LOVE. and the 5 markers following that in Gal 5 are the outpouring of that LOVE in action.

Also, keeping the commandment of God is LOVE (Agape) and is only possible by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus asked Peter; "Simon son of John, do you agape me?"
Peter replied; "Lord You know i filleo You.

This is because Peter did NOT come to know agape or demonstrate it until after the comforter came to lead into ALL truth and empower those who believe to agape others, as He first agape us.
You mentioned 1 Joh 5:3, but the last part of that verse is most important, as it says "and His commandments are NOT burdensome/grievous.
This is because it is Him, His power working mightily in us to will and to do the things that are pleasing to Him.

Blessings
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And to you as well!
 
More random thoughts...there have been times when someone has wronged me and immediately I know I must forgive, but I don't "feel" forgiving. These are times I have leaned on obedience to the Word, and say in prayer, "Lord, I forgive in faith, knowing You want me to, and trusting you will get my flesh out of the way." Eventually, to His credit alone, my feelings catch up with my desire to obey Him. Is this wrong?
I also agree with Major in that there is a difference between forgiveness and trust. We welcome the pedophile into our church, but we don't ask him to run the nursery or teach the little ones in a room alone. This is also for his benefit, that temptation not be placed in his path. In the same way, I forgave my mom for her verbal abuse...but I did not ask her to babysit my children, knowing she has great difficulty curbing her tongue and controlling her temper. Would you call that "not real forgiveness"?
 
Would you call that "not real forgiveness"?
God never asks anyone to do stupid things. I would call that being wise enough to know your mother's limits.
 
Glomung said:
Would you call that "not real forgiveness"?
God never asks anyone to do stupid things. I would call that being wise enough to know your mother's limits.
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All throughout scripture God asks people to do things that make absolutely NO SENSE in the flesh/logical mind whatsoever in both the ot and the nt.

March around a wall once a day for 6 days then on the 7th march around it 7 times then blow the horn.
Go wash in the pool of saloam to receive your sight.
Wash in the Jordan 7 times to be healed of leprosy.
Make me a cake with ALL THE FOOD YOU HAVE LEFT, then make you and your son something to eat.
Throw a branch in bitter water to make it sweet.
Strike the rock to get water.

The list goes on and on and on and on and on.

Blessings
 
Xian Pugilist said:
You may not forgive to please others, but if you forgive others and yourself will be pleased. AND there is great personal relief from forgiving as well.
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"Always full of courage, then, and knowing that while we are in the body we are exiled from the Lord -for we walk by faith and not by sight- we even have the courage to prefer to be exiled from the body and to be at home with the Lord. And therefore we strive, whether in the body or out of it, to be pleasing to him. For all of us must be manifest before the tribunal of Christ, so that each one may receive what he has won through the body, according to his works, whether good or evil." ---Cor II 6-10

Indeed what you say is true, forgiveness pleases oneself also, but sometimes it can be hard to forgive, and forgiving to please God and Jesus first is a stable foundation which enables one to forgive easily. Once you forgive, you will also reap the fruit of forgiveness which is peace, love and joy. For something that is so important to do, the rewards are eternal.
 
Am i just weird?
i've been reading this thread for a few days and over and over i've read how difficult forgiving others can be.
The bible makes clear it isn't optional, but more than that it is inevitable in Christ!
i've never had problem forgiving and i've never held a grudge that i can remember.
i long for reconciliation and restoration in every relationship.
i was severely abused as a child and hold no ill will or resentment for those who abused me.
i've been angry, hurt, jealous etc, but it's always been fleeting and this has been the case since i was a child and
has become even more so as i've grown.
i made a lot of poor choices and suffered a great deal of consequences as a result, but i still have NO IDEA of the depths of God's forgiveness for my sins and transgressions, but even those i remember is enough for me to KNOW that if God can forgive me, who am i to not forgive others and i praise God for showing me that he who loves little has been forgiven (by their own estimation) little, and he who loves much has been forgiven (by their own estimation) much, loves much.
i think the problem is we have a tendency to compare our sins with the sins of others, rather than the fact that ONE SIN of any kind separates us from God and not forgiving puts us in the JUDGMENT seat, which belongs to the ONLY JUDGE, that is Jesus Christ the Righteous, who will judge all things and He will judge those who judge to the same extent they have chosen to judge others.
Jesus said; By your own words you will either be justified or condemned.
So if we say we believe this book, we'd better be sure we're allowing for His Spirit to obey it, especially in this matter of forgiveness, as it is the epitome of grace and has been shown to all and is the only means of salvation.
Jesus didn't die so we could have better lives, but so that He could be our life!
 
Jesus didn't die so we could have better lives, but so that He could be our life!
Exactly. If only the "name it and claim it" crowd could grasp that.
If you look through history, many of God's best servants had absolutely terrible lives
from the worldly point of view.
 
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