FYI: Word of Faith Statement of Faith

[Major]

I agree, but as so many people love to muddy the waters and cast aspersions on people, bandying the label "WOF" about so easily, not really knowing what they are talking about, it is a good thing to have a reference here about it.

I do not agree at all with you my sister.. Explaining a different understanding of a Scripture does not make anyone trying to muddy the water and no one is casting any dispersions on the Word of Faith believers. I (We) simply do not agree with you.

I do not agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses theology or the Mormons but no one is casting stones at them and if one of them posted their Statement of Faith we would all post or concerns because of the error of their understanding.

Just because people do not agree with you does not mean that they do not know what they are talking about. You have stated that now about 6 times and I encourage you to move off of that kind of thinking. It speaks totally to an "elitist" position where if it is followed to its natural conclusion will be to say that YOU are the only one who knows about what we are all talking about.

That is an untenable position and neither is it a Christian way of thinking which is why I am encourage you to abandon it.

 

[Mykuhl]

Romans 6:6..........
“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

Notice that Paul says “we should not serve sin” but he never says that we won’t sin .

Romans 6:15-16.........
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.”

Again, Paul asked if we should sin, meaning that we are still capable of sinning. He again states that we shouldn’t sin. As Christians, we are not to be controlled by sin, but to control our sin. When Christ was tempted in the wilderness by the devil, He used the Word of God to resist temptation.

1 John 1:8........
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Here, the apostle says that Christians who claim to be sin free are deceiving themselves and he calls into question their very salvation for making such a claim!

It is a matter of identity...our identity has changed. We were once sinners, sold under sin, but we are now saints bought by the blood of the Lamb. Old things have passed away, we are a new creation. It is not a matter of not being able to sin anymore, it is that we are no longer defined by sin and slaves to it.

 

[Major]

If, according to the gospel message ALL (past, present and future) your sins have been wiped away by the blood of Jesus, you have a whole new identity---in Christ. You are not a sinner according to God, but you are now a saint. It's what God thinks that matters, and our job is to agree with God.

I want to thank you Euphemia for your comments and opinions. You, by them are allowing one of my prayers to be answered.
I have now for many years asked God to allow me to get out His Word to the world and now through the internet and your postings I am able to do just that.

You again are somewhat correct and some in error. YES, When we are saved, all our past sins are forgiven and dissolved by God, from us forever. The problem is that until we, as the children of God, still live here in this sinful, lustful, wicked world dominated by Satan.

How can anyone stay pure, in an impure world? How can we live righteously with the unrighteous? How can we live sin free?
That is what YOU are proposing by your comments.

When we are saved, our sins have been forgiven and we have repented of sin. For salvation we have turned our back on sin. We turn away from sin and turn our lives to God, when we are saved. All of that is correct and there is no problem.

Christ died on the cross, He was crucified and died for our sins. So that our sins could be removed and we could be reconciled to God, permitted to live with God for eternity after we die. Christ rose from the grave to eternal life. By believing in Jesus, we too can receive eternal life, through salvation. How wonderful is that?????

You have said and I agree that Christ gave us a way out from underneath the bondage of sin. Christ gave us freedom from sin. Christ gave us victory over sin and death, through salvation.

BUT and WHEN we sin after Jesus died for our sins, what are we saying? His death was in vain? God forbid.

Don't think for a second that God wants us to sin, after His Son died for our sins. God does NOT want us to sin. God wants us to live a righteous life and receive everlasting abundant life in the Kingdom of God. God tells us in His word to SIN NOT.

1 Corth. 15:34...........
"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."

1 John 2:1-4.....
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

 

[Major]

It is a matter of identity...our identity has changed. We were once sinners, sold under sin, but we are now saints bought by the blood of the Lamb. Old things have passed away, we are a new creation. It is not a matter of not being able to sin anymore, it is that we are no longer defined by sin and slaves to it.

Agreed. Paul is NOT saying that the old nature is eradicated. He is saying that since the old man was crucified the body of sin has been put out of business so that from now on we do not have to be in bondage to sin.

 

[boltardy]

I am not sure I understand your thinking but IMO THE problem now is the same as it was in the Garden of Eden......SIN!

Hard as not a literal reader of Genesis myslelf (not that I believe in evolution either, my own state is "Confusion"). But I do believe we are "terminally flawed" as "just flesh and blood" and something went horribly wrong yonks ago (I can equate that to the garden of Eden).

 

[Euphemia]

Romans 6:6..........
“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

Notice that Paul says “we should not serve sin” but he never says that we won’t sin .

Romans 6:15-16.........
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.”

Again, Paul asked if we should sin, meaning that we are still capable of sinning. He again states that we shouldn’t sin. As Christians, we are not to be controlled by sin, but to control our sin. When Christ was tempted in the wilderness by the devil, He used the Word of God to resist temptation.

1 John 1:8........
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Here, the apostle says that Christians who claim to be sin free are deceiving themselves and he calls into question their very salvation for making such a claim!

Yes, we do not serve or practice sin because our spirit is reborn and perfect and the word of God says that it cannot continue in the life of sin as before.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

 

[Euphemia]

I do not agree at all with you my sister.. Explaining a different understanding of a Scripture does not make anyone trying to muddy the water and no one is casting any dispersions on the Word of Faith believers. I (We) simply do not agree with you.

Most who denigrate the WoF people have been influenced by others who have a bee in their bonnet, and who are mostly cessationsists. Theirs is not merely "A different understanding of a Scripture", but a denial of the work of the Person of the Holy Spirit.

I do not agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses theology or the Mormons but no one is casting stones at them and if one of them posted their Statement of Faith we would all post or concerns because of the error of their understanding.

Yes, no stones---which goes to show you that the information I have given is not incongruent with the word of God. There is NO comparison with the cults you've just mentioned. Why on earth do you even mention them?

Just because people do not agree with you does not mean that they do not know what they are talking about. You have stated that now about 6 times and I encourage you to move off of that kind of thinking. It speaks totally to an "elitist" position where if it is followed to its natural conclusion will be to say that YOU are the only one who knows about what we are all talking about.

Nothing elitist in the truth and in the freedom one can have in Christ through the Holy Spirit's anointing. It is something we should all be desiring, and 3embracing, and not poo-pooing.

That is an untenable position and neither is it a Christian way of thinking which is why I am encourage you to abandon it.

Your judgment is well-noted. There is nothing un-Christian in any of MY thinking.

 

[Major]

Most who denigrate the WoF people have been influenced by others who have a bee in their bonnet, and who are mostly cessationsists. Theirs is not merely "A different understanding of a Scripture", but a denial of the work of the Person of the Holy Spirit.



Yes, no stones---which goes to show you that the information I have given is not incongruent with the word of God. There is NO comparison with the cults you've just mentioned. Why on earth do you even mention them?



Nothing elitist in the truth and in the freedom one can have in Christ through the Holy Spirit's anointing. It is something we should all be desiring, and 3embracing, and not poo-pooing.



Your judgment is well-noted. There is nothing un-Christian in any of MY thinking.

Everyone I have read here is living under the anointing of God's Spirit.

The ground at the foot of the cross is level and all believers are equal
under the anointing of God's Spirit.

 

[Major]

Yes, we do not serve or practice sin because our spirit is reborn and perfect and the word of God says that it cannot continue in the life of sin as before.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

That passage doe NOT say that a believer does not sin. It does however speak to the fact in context with the rest of the Bible that the one who is saved will not STAY in his sin.

1 John 2:1 we see that......"If any Christian sin, we have an advocate with the Father"----which tells us that the believer will in fact sin.

Sin is contrary to the will of God without question, but when sin comes into our lives He is faithful and just to forgive "IF we confess our sins"...(1 John 1:9).

So then John is speaking to believers and he is saying that BELIEVERS WILL SIN. Therefore, when John says, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin".........he is saying that the new nature will not continue to LIVE in a pigpen and never will under any circumstances stay in a condition of sin.

In other words we do not go on in sin.

 

[Major]

Hard as not a literal reader of Genesis myslelf (not that I believe in evolution either, my own state is "Confusion"). But I do believe we are "terminally flawed" as "just flesh and blood" and something went horribly wrong yonks ago (I can equate that to the garden of Eden).

You would be correct and it is that 3 letter word of SIN.

You see the sin curse is felt throughout all of God's creation. Creation is waiting for the day when the curse will be lifted.

The Apostle Paul said in Romans 8:23:............
"And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption".

 

[Euphemia]

Everyone I have read here is living under the anointing of God's Spirit.

The ground at the foot of the cross is level and all believers are equal
under the anointing of God's Spirit.

Not every believer is baptized in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Euphemia]

That passage doe NOT say that a believer does not sin. It does however speak to the fact in context with the rest of the Bible that the one who is saved will not STAY in his sin.

1 John 2:1 we see that......"If any Christian sin, we have an advocate with the Father"----which tells us that the believer will in fact sin.

Sin is contrary to the will of God without question, but when sin comes into our lives He is faithful and just to forgive "IF we confess our sins"...(1 John 1:9).

So then John is speaking to believers and he is saying that BELIEVERS WILL SIN. Therefore, when John says, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin".........he is saying that the new nature will not continue to LIVE in a pigpen and never will under any circumstances stay in a condition of sin.

In other words we do not go on in sin.

The scripture says that the born again, pure and holy spirit cannot sin. That doesn't mean that the human soul and body cannot sin, because it does due to the fact that a remnant of the old nature still resurfaces and needs to be put down regularly.

 

[Major]

The scripture says that the born again, pure and holy spirit cannot sin. That doesn't mean that the human soul and body cannot sin, because it does due to the fact that a remnant of the old nature still resurfaces and needs to be put down regularly.

Now we are getting somewhere. Actually the sin nature does not resurface, it simply was never put away with. It can not be down completely because we are humans living in a body prone to sin by nature.

1 Corinthians 10:13 ....
" There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]."

1 John 1:8 .......
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

I think we may be missing something here. We all need to understand that we are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Therefore we can not eradicate that which we are born with as we had no control one way or the other.

Rom. 5:12............
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned”.

This means we are ALL born spiritually dead. Adam and Eve would have lived forever had they not sinned. This is why each person MUST be born-again! The term “born-again” means “being born for the second time.” There is the physical birth and then there is the spiritual birth. We are born spiritually dead into this world without God. We are all born with a fallen nature, a natural tendency to sin.

 

[Major]

Not every believer is baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Yes they are! You are posting denominational teaching and not Scripture. Allow me to post some Bible things for all of us to ponder.

At the moment of salvation the saved person is instantaneously and permanently subject to several actions of and by the Holy Spirit of God.

1. The believer is baptized (immersed) into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, which is in fact his unification with Jesus Christ. (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Acts 1:5; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:27)

2. The believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, i.e., the Holy Spirit in whole takes up residence within the believer. (John 14:7; Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19; Galatians 4:6; 1 John 2:27; 3:24)

3. The believer is sealed with and by the Holy Spirit. This is the believer’s assurance (“guarantee”) of eternal security.
(2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; Ephesians 1:13, 14; 4:30)

4.The believer is granted one or more spiritual gifts by the Holy Spirit, which is/are to be used in God’s service. (1 Corinthians 12:4-11)

These actions of and by the Holy Spirit IMO are permanent, never to be retracted under any circumstances by God or nullified by man. In addition with these permanent actions of and by the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is available to the believer to lead and guide, and, in fact, work through the believer in the Christian life.

I thank God every day for His filling and empowering Holy Spirit in my life!!!

 

[Abdicate]

Sin... yep, such a problem. I find many, including myself, struggle with this concept because without proper understanding of what sin actually is leaves too many with contradictory verses, concepts, and misunderstandings. I'm not going to post every verse in what I'm about to say because it's late I'm going to bed soon. I hope I've earned a little leeway in this

So, sin. The word literally means to miss the mark. But first you have to see that there IS a mark to be missed. Take the golden calf Aaron made. Before they were told it was wrong to do, no one did it. They had the gold from day one. But the Ten Commandments were not given for over a month! They were told not to do it, and they turned around and did it. They sinned. A bullseye was created and they were given instructions and they missed it. That is what sin is: to miss the mark. But it's still more than that, so here's the Hebrew for it:

- Original: חטא
- Definition:
1. to sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit, purify from uncleanness

a. (Qal)

1. to miss
2. to sin, miss the goal or path of right and duty
3. to incur guilt, incur penalty by sin, forfeit​

b. (Piel)

1. to bear loss
2. to make a sin-offering
3. to purify from sin
4. to purify from uncleanness​

c. (Hiphil)

1. to miss the mark
2. to induce to sin, cause to sin
3. to bring into guilt or condemnation or punishment​

d. (Hithpael)

1. to miss oneself, lose oneself, wander from the way
2. to purify oneself from uncleanness​

Interestingly the Hebrew letters of this word mean:

ח fenced in/wall/separation;
ט snake/surround/below;
א strength/sacrifice/leader

Being a prisoner of the snake leader!​

How very fitting! We know that we are free FROM sin, but we still sin in this body of flesh. We are to be overcomers, nay, more than overcomers, because how to/way/path to defeat sin in our lives was literally lived by Jesus for us to follow. So to remain in sin is to remain a prisoner. Before we were saved, we were sinners/prisoners on death row for those sins. After we were saved, the sentence has been commuted and the prison doors opened for us to leave. BUT!!! We have to leave. It is a process. First we look at the door in disbelief - "Is it really open after so many years?!" We inch forward, all the while, our Judge and Executioner is saying we are free. He gently calls us over to the open door. Something happens, a sound, a thought, and we run back into our familiar corner. And we have to start over again. Some make it to the door and just stick their heads out to survey their surroundings. Spooked again by the change, we run back to our corner in fear or in surrender to sin. People fundamentally don't like change. After a few years, sadly, we might make it a foot out the door. We see how wonderful it is, but again we become tempted with the familiar for fear of the unknown freedom.

So what is happening in this scenario? In a nutshell, we don't trust the Judge and Executioner to do what He says. We revert back to our old habits and sin. Think of the lost years to sin. We forfeit our freedom. While we may not be physically free of sin, by our own choice, will we be executed for remaining in the prison? No, not at all. But look at it like this, whether we're in the prison or free, unless events change, we'll all die physically. We can't even imagine what our lives would have been like if we had trusted our Judge and Executioner, trusted Him and obeyed Him, and lived free lives what a difference that would be. Those that leave the prison of sin enjoy a great relationship with our Judge and Executioner and live a full meaningful life showing His mercy and grace and calling other prisoners out too. Sin and salvation are not just about what happens AFTER we died physically, but what our lives are like NOW, here TODAY on this planet. Remaining in sin after salvation begs the question: are you really saved? If so, then you're free from sin, so why remain in the prison? Remaining in sin after salvation, if you are indeed saved, only leaves you ignorant, lonely, and hurting, blaming God for problems in your life, when He paid the price for you to be free. Sin affects the relationship with God. He died for you, set you free, so what more can He do?

To obey the Judge and Executioner helps us to get out of the prison. We heed His words! He'll clean you up, set you on the correct path, and gives you a job to do. The more faithful you are to Him, the more responsibilities He'll give you. Imagine the spiritual the way life is and you'll understand. If you're the boss and you take a chance and give a homeless kid a job, pay him well, if he does a lousy job cleaning the toilets and taking out the trash, why would you trust him with the cash register? Why do you think God would be any different? Be a faithful servant and He'll make you the ruler over His whole house!

Put sin in its correct context and understand what the word of God is saying when it talks about sin. At what point is it referring to? Before salvation. After salvation. Before a great relationship. After freedom with a great relationship. God's protection from the effects of sin are not long term. His umbrella shrinks over time to allow us to see that there's sin still in our lives and to get closer to God to remain under His umbrella of protection. Things once permitted newborns (wetting themselves, making a mess trying to eat) are not permitted in adults. Put everything into correct perspective and we'll understand the word of God. Don't spiritualize everything. The word of God is our guidebook to be free, don't make new laws to keep others a prisoner because we don't want to be free!

I surrender the soap box.

 

[Euphemia]

Now we are getting somewhere. Actually the sin nature does not resurface, it simply was never put away with. It can not be down completely because we are humans living in a body prone to sin by nature.

1 Corinthians 10:13 ....
" There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]."

1 John 1:8 .......
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

I think we may be missing something here. We all need to understand that we are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Therefore we can not eradicate that which we are born with as we had no control one way or the other.

Rom. 5:12............
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned”.

This means we are ALL born spiritually dead. Adam and Eve would have lived forever had they not sinned. This is why each person MUST be born-again! The term “born-again” means “being born for the second time.” There is the physical birth and then there is the spiritual birth. We are born spiritually dead into this world without God. We are all born with a fallen nature, a natural tendency to sin.

In Christ, and because of Christ and His blood, God doesn't see us or call us sinners. No one in scripture who is born again is ever referred to as a sinner. We are now saints, brothers and sisters in Christ...the Body of Christ, the Church, the righteous, the redeemed.

 

[Euphemia]

Yes they are! You are posting denominational teaching and not Scripture. Allow me to post some Bible things for all of us to ponder.

Not at all. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is something apart from what happens at salvation. Read the word and discover for yourself how Holy Spirit came upon believers and anointed them with His fullness.

 

[/]

This thread is being closely monitored.
It goes without saying; be courteous.

 

[Klub]

A viewpoint that I see predominantly from word of faith preachers is the idea that everything is good is from God, and everything bad that happens is from the devil.

Things we interpret as bad can be good. Also, what may be bad to some is good from God.

 

[Cturtle]

Me, I hope it doesn't preclude me from posting here from time to time but I believe we remain flawed in this life - think we all have a "sinful self". Maybe I'm totally wrong but I thought Paul wrestled with that?

The sinful self is what Jesus asks us to crucify daily. And no one i am sure is going to ever tell you that you and your opinion or thoughts are not important or wanted. You are a valuable part of the body of Christ!
grace and peace be yours in abundance!