God Is Not Everywhere
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I detest when Rusty and I disagree, as much as when you and I disagree Bill. It does make me question. But I know you and he are both men of God, who love him. He has forgiven me for when I am wrong but in this - I don't think I am. I have more scripture but I prefer ( as you have noted, I care for what I see as the "heart" of scripture as to the single shots posted) simply to disagree with you about judgement.
Silk,
This week's lesson is, from the Quarterly, teaching against exactly what you are attempting to have me do. For what ever reason you appear to have fallen into the grace alone category and because I have sought to use the wisdom God has given me you have, without examination, it seems to me, placed me into the opposite court of unrighteous judgement.
Grace is a wonderful thing and without it there can be no salvation but it does not stand alone. With God's Grace comes God's love. We see this i the offering up of His own Son for my sins. In like manor, if I stand back, as you are suggesting, and allow the Witnesses and the Mormons to tramp, joyfully, off into Hell, there could be no love of God in me.
Yes, there is a great deal of other scripture you can confront me with but the Holy Spirit, my teacher and my counsellor and He will not allow a diversion of the mission of God to long endure. As I said earlier, this has resulted in a great study of the Word and I pray no damage has been done to you, your faith but, rather, both of us have learned from the experience.
I'm not sure what the point of this thread is, really. First, all references to God's "presence" are not simply mapping out coordinates where God "is" and where He "isn't." Some references are more metaphorical than others. Where His eyes are in relation to His body (does God even have eyes or a body, being spirit, unless you're talking about Jesus?) seems like a pointless discussion to me as I have never read that as a literal description of an identifiable location of either eyes or body. I know even with my physical, temporal limitations, I can see lots of things, including stars many light-years away without my eyes actually being anywhere near what I am seeing.
In my opinion, if there are places where God "isn't", it is because He Himself withholds His presence or influence from that place, not that He is physically unable to occupy that space or exert His will there.
In my opinion, if there are places where God "isn't", it is because He Himself withholds His presence or influence from that place, not that He is physically unable to occupy that space or exert His will there.
Thanks Rumely.
My feeble mind did not connect and you are right. John, when he was busy revealing the Revelation of Jesus and Paul, when he was recording what he had seen when he was taken there in the Spirit, I believe, said they knew things that God would not allow them to reveal to us. I should have used my standard response to Angels, the Father and the demons having material bodies.
It is and will always remain true that God is a spirit being that created our Time/Space Continuum for us to measure with. Without being in the presence of our LORD, it is impossible to begin to conceive the presence of the Father because He, like the Angels, have no relation or presence in our Time/Space Continuum. I did the study some years ago that resulted in my understanding that God is... period! The summary of that, almost year long endeavour, is that there is no time and no space that is without God.
It is just impossible for the Natural Man to come to grips with but God is in the Present... everywhere and simultaneously is everywhere in the Future as well as the Past. Trying to do more than to just hold on to that truth will bend your head out of shape so faith alone is needed on that. I mulled that over, and over, and over for a long time with a good deal of prayer before I ceased fighting with it and just believed.
Of course the Atheist and many, calling the name of the Christ, have been fast to toss the Monkey Wrench into this. They, Christian and Atheist alike go to Gen. 6:1, claiming the Sons of God refers to Fallen Angels. And here again it took me months upon months to settle the issue to my satisfaction. But in the story of the murder of Able by Cain coupled with the life of Seth I found the answer with a good deal of extra-biblical study. The Sons of Seth, the Godly linage of man, to the Ancient Jew was known as the Sons of God and the sons of Cain were known as the sons of Man, and the daughters of each were known as were their brothers.
God bless, everyone.
th1Bill Posts: Of course the Atheist and many, calling the name of the Christ, have been fast to toss the Monkey Wrench into this. They, Christian and Atheist alike go to Gen 6:1, claiming the Sons of God refers to Fallen Angels. And here again it took me months upon months to settle the issue to my satisfaction. But in the story of the murder of Able by Cain coupled with the life of Seth I found the answer with a good deal of extra-biblical study. The Sons of Seth, the Godly linage of man, to the Ancient Jew was known as the Sons of God and the sons of Cain were known as the sons of Man, and the daughters of each were known as were their brothers.
I never thought of that before and it certainly sounds good. But after the flood, only Sons of God carried on? (while Cain's bloodline may have been carried on thru the wives of Noah's 3 sons?)
I never thought of that before and it certainly sounds good. But after the flood, only Sons of God carried on? (while Cain's bloodline may have been carried on thru the wives of Noah's 3 sons?)
That sounds right to me.
Would it be the "Sons of Noah that carried on" after the flood?
The three sons of Noah, according to the Bible, were to be responsible for the re-populating of the world after the flood. Though Noah had three sons, it would be Shem through whom the "promised seed of the woman" would be transmitted. Shem was to be the father of the Semitic line of descent, which included the Jews, as well as Syrians and Arameans, among others.
And I agree.......what is the point. The OP has even disapeared.
Silk........did you know that this verse is the #1 quoted verse by non-believers..Matt.7:1.
Now we must ask why that is???
Because it allows them to escape accountability to God. The un-believer is guilty and does not want to here about it.
The verses on judging do not say what we think they say. The Bible actually commands us to judge and Matt. 7:1 is fully consistant with the rest of the Bible.
Read 7:1-5 to get the proper understand from the Lord Jesus.
OK. Even if you don’t go with them,with those old manuscript as it is also supported in other verse.
And this time I won’t believe to the person I heard since I’m not yet a member of his group.
But I would believe in
( Acts 17:24) “God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;”
It is contrary to God is everywhere, the word “everywhere” Again, I was talking of the word everywhere. The verse says he does not dwell in temples made with hands. Then is it right to say he is everywhere? meaning He is in everyplace? meaning those temples are belong.Explain.
plus it just been written
God is not in a place where there are evil strife and envy.
(James 3:16, 15) “For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.”
“This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.”
Is he in that place? The verse said it is in evil. Then our we going to disgrace the God of the Bible in saying he is in everyplace?everywhere? Explain.
And this time I won’t believe to the person I heard since I’m not yet a member of his group.
But I would believe in
( Acts 17:24) “God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;”
It is contrary to God is everywhere, the word “everywhere” Again, I was talking of the word everywhere. The verse says he does not dwell in temples made with hands. Then is it right to say he is everywhere? meaning He is in everyplace? meaning those temples are belong.Explain.
plus it just been written
God is not in a place where there are evil strife and envy.
(James 3:16, 15) “For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.”
“This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.”
Is he in that place? The verse said it is in evil. Then our we going to disgrace the God of the Bible in saying he is in everyplace?everywhere? Explain.
Of course this is one of the important things to know and to talk about.
We imitate the first Christians, the Christians in the Bible. The way of their life and belief, their doctrine even if it is 2000 years ago we will still be connected to the true CHURCH OF GOD.
(I thesa 2:14) For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
(I Cor. 1:2 )Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
For us to know if the Church is of God and from God, teachings must be from the Bible. Of course we just do not believe to those who are coming and say they preach in the name of Jesus. We should try them. We should try every spirit.
That way we will know if they are of God, by their teachings John 7:17
We imitate the first Christians, the Christians in the Bible. The way of their life and belief, their doctrine even if it is 2000 years ago we will still be connected to the true CHURCH OF GOD.
(I thesa 2:14) For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
(I Cor. 1:2 )Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
For us to know if the Church is of God and from God, teachings must be from the Bible. Of course we just do not believe to those who are coming and say they preach in the name of Jesus. We should try them. We should try every spirit.
That way we will know if they are of God, by their teachings John 7:17
Maybe Major, because people are tired of being judged by people who have as many sins to their souls as they? I dunno, maybe people are tired of giving their $$ to preachers who patronize whores and air condition their dog houses. Just saying. Mayhaps it's time we realize that God loves us all and we should actually help those of us in water over our heads? I am sick to death of other so- called "christians" warming their hands on the demise of burnt and broken believers. I am sick to death of the "I am the better Christian" competition! It will be the death of us all.
Acts 17:24 is saying that God is not confined to a temple made with human hands. In the Old Testament, God's presence was indeed found in a temple made with human hands (albeit according to the plan He delivered, not a plan of human whim). But, it is emphasized numerous times in both old and new testaments that He is not limited to, confined to, nor anchored to any particular locale.
Again, James 3:15-16 is not talking about dimensional parameters, it is talking about the source of envy and strife, very similar to the verses in Galatians 5:16-26 contrasting the deeds of the flesh with the fruits of the Spirit.
I'm out of time, once again, but I think I can demonstrate from Scripture that God makes His presence and power known even in the midst of evil - not in support of evil, of course, but much to its detriment.
Your error here is in taking the single verse out of it's context and you can't do that to the Word of God. Let's look for just a second at that word, context. Without the books of what folks term, the Old Testament, the New Testament is meaningless. This is important to remember because of the first rule I learned of Hermeneutics... No single scripture nor any grouping of scripture can ever be fully or correctly understood without the light of all other scripture shinning on it or them.
In direct contrast, using your logic we find in Jeremiah 23:23,24 that God sees everything, making Him the Omnipresent God. Using the correct rendering of scripture these two verses must never be in conflict but rather they must compliment one another. If you will do the Nave's Topical Study on the Omnipresence of God, I believe you will change your mind and if you are saved, you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and as you do the Naveś Study (available on the WWW) I know for a fact that e will open you Spiritual Eyes on this matter.
May God bless you.
Silk,
you are opening another can of worms that should never be thrown around like you just did. First of all, about 98% of the Church Membership will be in service the first Sunday after the Rapture and they might not even notice that the Rapture has occurred. This contest was begun by yourself when you tried to prove yourself a better Christian than the old rag, Bill.
Now that you have put the spoon into the pot your feeling put upon and we didn't do it. You attempted to move away, it seemed, from the Sermon on the Mount when I began and Major continued to explain to you that the context of verse 1 of chapter 7 was only the beginning of the paragraph and Major built on the truth of the matter by pointing you towards the truth of the teaching by explaining that the first paragraph was just the beginning of that chapter.
None of us have hit you with the one upmanship you claim to be going on now. What is happening, right now is love in action. Just as my attempt to restrain any young Christian or baby Christian from learning errant theology and then living by it, go to Hell and just as the statement about the two non-Christian cults set you off, in error to correct me, Major, I and the moderator, Rumley are simply trying to keep folks pointed to the Heavenly Highway.
Nobody has sought to be better than you, you have just wandered off into the midst of a handful of Bible Teachers trying to help you. God bless.
Bill, I open no cans - and yet there they are. I said don't judge. You said yes - go ahead. We both got scriptures but hey you must be right. And now you're right - you are down to judging me and plain and simple, Bill - you are wrong. If Rumely agrees with you Bill then let him say so - so far I don't see it but you never know. You say you been teaching from the Sermon on the Mount? Well ain't you meek in your judgements? You want to save JW's and Mormons? Go to their forums then. Because all you be doing here is claiming your better Christian ways to a whole lotta agree people - if that makes it a competion then I win. One upsmanship is not my way - I will repeat - I don't make my way to God on the backs of other uncertain believers. What did Jack Nicholson say? You don't seem to handle the truth well if you think castigating others is the only way to reach others.
Hey Silk........sounds like you are "judging" here????? Just saying...................
Silk.........I am on your side my dear! Really I am.
I agree with what you are trying to say, all I am doing is showing you that we all do actually judge others and in fact we are told to do so in the Scriptures, when those Scriptures are fully understood.
I too am distress at the money thrown to false preachers, not so much at the preachers but at the people who have eyes blinded by the false teaching of "Name and Claim It/Prosperity... etc.
I KNOW it is time that we reach out to help the suffering and believe me, a lot of wonderful, Jesus loving churches are doing just that. I can for a fact tell you that I know personally, 3 pastors who do not take a salary so that the income the church receives can be used to help the financially struggeling in their congregations. They are buying food, meds, Doctor visits, water bills and so on.
That is where we as people need to be at IMO. Not in a church that wants another new building or a basketball court or new uniforms for the softball team, BUT help those churches that are out their doing the work of the ministry by helping those who need it by taking kids to the dentist, buying shoes and pants for those who have none.
Silk, I wanted to give you something Biblically so that you do not think that you are being ganged up on and that there is a battle of conflicting Scriptures out of which we can choose the ones that fit our argument.
This thought of "Judge not lest you be judged" has caused more questions over the years than probably any other.
In Matt. 7:1-5 which is the part of the post you made. Jesus was NOT forbidding the formation of opinions concerning the character and conduct of other people, because such judgment is always right if we have the right means of judging..........
"by their fruits ye shall know them" (Matt. 7:16-20).
John 7:24 records Jesus teaching us saying........Now watch this closely Silk and others.........................
"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment".
Do you see it??? From the mouth of God we see................."BUT JUDGE RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT".
Oooops! That kind of changes things a little dosen't it?
You see, only God sees the heart, but if a person drinks, gambles, swears, steals, lies and bears the fruits of sin, we are not judging that person when we say that he is a sinner, for the person who continues in known sin is not of God (1 Cort, 6:9-10). We are in fact making a statement of an observation NOT a "presumption".
Jesus Himself reproved error and evil and the fruits of sinners. So did the apostles. Paul chraged Timothy in 2 Tim. 4:2 to,
"Preach the Word, be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine".
When Jesus said to "JUDGE NOT", He was speaking of presumptuously unertaking to pass judgment upon others----a judgment which may be unkind, unjust, unfounded and extremely unchristian. Such practice is very common today and the people most likly to pass presumptuous judgment on others are just like the Pharisees.
They put on a show of religion and knowledge but then condemn others in the same breath. Jesus said in Luke 18:9-14 of the two men that the publican went home justified rather than the Pharisee.
The Sermon on the Mount teaches us that in all things we should regard others as we would have them think of us. The bottom line is......If we do not forgive others, we need not expect God to gorgive us. If we show no mercy to others, do not expect mercy from God. God will deal with us as we have dealt with others, for from the heart come the issues of life and God looks on the heart.
So, in other words, I agree with you in that we are not to pass judgment against our fellowman by a presumptuouse comment and God will not be forced to pass like judgment against us. But there is a definate deferrance between "presumption, and observation".