God's Word ----all or part?

[CCW95A]

But what I'd you ask for something that God does not want you to have? Then He says no, and that is the point I am trying to make.

You can never have faith to believe for something if you don't know God has promised it to you in his Word. This is why all the promises of God are "yes". We are only asking for the things God has already given to us. You need to find out what those things are first before you ask.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[Euphemia]

If our "purpose" is to "offend" people then that is sin, but if our motive is to speak the truth to others then that is very good. When truth comes up against untruth, there will always be those who become offended. It is never a pleasant thing to speak truth to those who believe in error. They will accuse you of not walking in love, but Love always speaks the truth no matter what others may think. Jesus caused a lot of hatred against him self for doing just that. When a person has the truth of God's they will never be offended at what others say against them. If we do get upset and offended by what others say to us that is a sign to us that possibly we really do not have the truth.

One thing I find is that there is an offense we feel and it is not always on the soulish level, but spiritual, as Holy Spirit is offended and grieves at the deliberately ugly things said by His enemies.

 

[aha]

One thing I find is that there is an offense we feel and it is not always on the soulish level, but spiritual, as Holy Spirit is offended and grieves at the deliberately ugly things said by His enemies.

Makes me wonder, as I observed before when was into atheist forums:

why would a Christian get offended by an Atheist comment?

 

[Euphemia]

Makes me wonder, as I observed before when was into atheist forums:

why would a Christian get offended by an Atheist comment?

Well, the Spirit of God is offended when such people call Him names such as "the god thingie", "murderous tyrant" and such, and at the same time He comforts me when they then turn to sink their teeth into me by calling me a witch, among other ugly names.

As I said earlier, the wounding we feel is not on the soulish level, but the spiritual, which enables me to carry on. We feel Jesus' hurt.

Minor flesh wounds. Jesus band-aids are more than sufficient.

 

[aha]

Well, the Spirit of God is offended when such people call Him names such as "the god thingie", "murderous tyrant" and such, and at the same time He comforts me when they then turn to sink their teeth into me by calling me a witch, among other ugly names.

As I said earlier, the wounding we feel is not on the soulish level, but the spiritual, which enables me to carry on. We feel Jesus' hurt.

Minor flesh wounds. Jesus band-aids are more than sufficient.

I like to comment further, although I think am more interested on the next question : )

Why would a Christian get offended by another Christian opinion? Note: opinion on a topic, not a personal "attack"..

Example:
I remember a Pastor that I respect. always even now.... we disagree on something (about: wine : ), said to me: We disagree, we let Holy Spirit rebuke your opinion on the matter….

On my side: there is nothing to rebuke, I believe we are ONE in the same Spirit, of ONE mind, that is, we respect the same Godly laws…. we simply differ in opinion…

am trying to remember what I feel/ think,,, I think I did not get offended.... but/although (and this is what am pondering on) I think, he may be in a position that he is questioning the SAME spirit that we have...

OR... I got a different Spirit? : )..... no... my mind is telling me I will be disrespecting the Spirit that I have if believe otherwise : )

 

[Euphemia]

I like to comment further, although I think am more interested on the next question : )

Why would a Christian get offended by another Christian opinion? Note: opinion on a topic, not a personal "attack"..

Example:
I remember a Pastor that I respect. always even now.... we disagree on something (about: wine : ), said to me: We disagree, we let Holy Spirit rebuke your opinion on the matter….

On my side: there is nothing to rebuke, I believe we are ONE in the same Spirit, of ONE mind, that is, we respect the same Godly laws…. we simply differ in opinion…

am trying to remember what I feel/ think,,, I think I did not get offended.... but/although (and this is what am pondering on) I think, he may be in a position that he is questioning the SAME spirit that we have...

OR... I got a different Spirit? : )..... no... my mind is telling me I will be disrespecting the Spirit that I have if believe otherwise : )

It is a good thing that you didn't take offense, as in his immaturity and pride, the comment was clearly one of petty condemnation.

 

[Mykuhl]

I like to comment further, although I think am more interested on the next question : )

Why would a Christian get offended by another Christian opinion? Note: opinion on a topic, not a personal "attack"..

Example:
I remember a Pastor that I respect. always even now.... we disagree on something (about: wine : ), said to me: We disagree, we let Holy Spirit rebuke your opinion on the matter….

On my side: there is nothing to rebuke, I believe we are ONE in the same Spirit, of ONE mind, that is, we respect the same Godly laws…. we simply differ in opinion…

am trying to remember what I feel/ think,,, I think I did not get offended.... but/although (and this is what am pondering on) I think, he may be in a position that he is questioning the SAME spirit that we have...

OR... I got a different Spirit? : )..... no... my mind is telling me I will be disrespecting the Spirit that I have if believe otherwise : )

I am just assuming here but....perhaps what that pastor was trying to do with that rebuke was to have the Holy Spirit rebuke what he believed was false. So, perhaps in his mind he was standing up for truth and invoking the Holy Spirit to rebuke you and show you that truth.

I agree and respect that believers will disagree on some points but isn't there only one truth and every other way of thinking is false? If this is the case then someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong if there are opposing views.

 

[Arrie03]

I like to comment further, although I think am more interested on the next question : )

Why would a Christian get offended by another Christian opinion? Note: opinion on a topic, not a personal "attack"..

Example:
I remember a Pastor that I respect. always even now.... we disagree on something (about: wine : ), said to me: We disagree, we let Holy Spirit rebuke your opinion on the matter….

On my side: there is nothing to rebuke, I believe we are ONE in the same Spirit, of ONE mind, that is, we respect the same Godly laws…. we simply differ in opinion…

am trying to remember what I feel/ think,,, I think I did not get offended.... but/although (and this is what am pondering on) I think, he may be in a position that he is questioning the SAME spirit that we have...

OR... I got a different Spirit? : )..... no... my mind is telling me I will be disrespecting the Spirit that I have if believe otherwise : )

I'll be honest, it did sound as if he spoke down to you on that topic, as if to say, he already made up his mind that you are the one that is wrong. To me, maybe that attitude is a bit wrong, especially since your are one in Christ, but my assessment can be ill informed.

That tv lady once said something interesting, Joyce ...., she said she and her husband had a disagreement on something, and she got very upset at him, and ranted and raved for him to dance to her tune.
So her husband told her to go and pray about it and to ask God to convince him, her husband, that he should change his mind and accept her ways.
I thought that is priceless for personal conflict between two believers.
The one most strongly feeling the other is wrong must ask God to change the others mind on the subject. I love it - because a lesson of humbling is likely at hand. We should never look down like that at other believers, but should act in an uplifting manner.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Thank you for the advice. And I would not know who said that line... I don't watch movies.

It is a little older. The first transformer movie when Bumble Bee was still the old camaro.
Just heard it in my head lol

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Jim, I think I know where you are coming from. Yes, the Bible teaches in Hebrews 13:8 that.........
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

But the same Bible also teaches us in Luke 2:52 that.......
"...Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man."

Does the Bible contradict itself? Are those two verses a contradiction???? They look like a contradiction at first reading!!!
No, the apparent contradiction is simply an issue of proper interpretation or again, "Hermeneutics".

Jim, sometimes we simply do not understand what God is saying and so we use our own interpretation which can be and in many cases has been wrong BUT we tend to be too proud to admit that we may be wrong.

When the Bible teaches us that God is eternally the same, it saying that we can trust the Lord because he never varies his course; he always within the law; he is no respecter of persons and always bestows the same blessings as a reward for the same obedience. The plan and program of God through the ages is the Lord Jesus Christ for the salvation of humanity ---- is the same today as it was to Adam and Eve. The Bible tries to distinguish the true and living God from the false gods of pagan religions that tend to come from those who will not accept the true Word of God as it is written to me for men..

Hi Major,
I guess I should have worded this better.
What I am saying is God does not change His word. If He said do not judge then do not judge is what He means. I am talking about things such as,
Mark 11:25.....example......we are told when we pray we must forgive any aught and peoploe tend to claim that is not what God means or you cant expect God to expect you tyo forgive what so and so has done.

It is things like this that I am seeing a lot of. Picking a plan that works best for you.
That will never fly and they cry out to God mad because they do not see God working much in their lives. Duh !! They want a NO-Fault Religion where it is never their fault and it must be Gods will because He did not do what I wanted or you know God He works in mysterious ways and one never knows what God is going to do.

It is that kind of cracker jack walk in Christ I am talking about.
Blessings my Friend ! ; )
Jim

 

[Juk]

You can never have faith to believe for something if you don't know God has promised it to you in his Word. This is why all the promises of God are "yes". We are only asking for the things God has already given to us. You need to find out what those things are first before you ask.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

I do agree that all things that God has promised are a "yes". If they not a "yes", then God would either be a liar or the promise would not be a promise at all.

 

[Lanolin]

Gods word - all of it.
Paul does say we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when the perfect is come, then that which is part will be done away.

I think of it this way. We all read the Bible but we are not all reading the exact same passages at the exact same time and some of us have read bits that maybe others have not read yet, or maybe we've forgotten or not focused on other passages. That is why it's important to really study and dig deep into what it says, and also learn from each other.

If someone though is teaching they have a great responsibility to teach what God has taught them not some other doctrine they've made up with bits of the Bible. That is where many fall into error, and are not humble enough to be taught by our teacher the Holy Spirit who guides us to all truth. If we have his spirit and are led by the spirit He will NOT let us go. We will have a hunger to learn more and just sit at the feet of Jesus and learn like Paul had to do for 14 years. He had to do that before even going off to missionary journeys...because, when preaching he couldn't just look up passages in the Bible like we can do today online it had to be written on his heart as well. Everyone else in those synagogues had the Torah too.
But it's only Jesus who can reveal scripture to us to show us what it all means. Since he is the Word.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Gods word - all of it.

Paul does say we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when the perfect is come, then that which is part will be done away.


I think of it this way. We all read the Bible but we are not all reading the exact same passages at the exact same time and some of us have read bits that maybe others have not read yet, or maybe we've forgotten or not focused on other passages. That is why it's important to really study and dig deep into what it says, and also learn from each other.


If someone though is teaching they have a great responsibility to teach what God has taught them not some other doctrine they've made up with bits of the Bible. That is where many fall into error, and are not humble enough to be taught by our teacher the Holy Spirit who guides us to all truth. If we have his spirit and are led by the spirit He will NOT let us go. We will have a hunger to learn more and just sit at the feet of Jesus and learn like Paul had to do for 14 years. He had to do that before even going off to missionary journeys...because, when preaching he couldn't just look up passages in the Bible like we can do today online it had to be written on his heart as well. Everyone else in those synagogues had the Torah too.

But it's only Jesus who can reveal scripture to us to show us what it all means. Since he is the Word.

Lanolin Hello

Exactly !! The problem begins when many ignore the part about being taught by the Holy Spirit and pick and choose what is for us and what is not or what is important and so forth.
Some will even say that the forgive if you have any aught in Mark 11:24 is not important.
Funny it says when we pray then we need to do just that.

No one of us knows it all but the more we hunger for His word the more He will allow us to discover and get deeper insight. It is those who fail to do so that argue against those who have made it their desire to seek God and gain a deeper understanding. It is as shallow under standing verse a deeper understanding and those who have little claim they are right and those who dig deeper into His word are false.

This is why I started this thread in hopes of bringing to light to this. It is time we all simply styrived to love as the written word of God has shown us to live and minister Gods love to those who are lost in this dark world.
Blessings and thank you for taking part.
Have a wonderful day
Jim

 

[aha]

I agree and respect that believers will disagree on some points but isn't there only one truth and every other way of thinking is false? If this is the case then someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong if there are opposing views.

"isn't there only one truth?
I think: there are things that are either True or False, and I agree Christians need to be on guard in this matter....
but I think there are things that are neither True or False...but more of a matter of Christian Liberty ...

The Classic Example of Romans 14: those who eat meat, and those who do not….

Question: does both of them of the SAME MIND?
as I see it: they have different belief, but Yes, they are of both of the SAME MIND. Both of them do things for and give thanks to God.
"He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks."

Question: is it a question of WEAK and STRONG faith?
Yes, can be: as Paul seems to say in some part of the Chapter....
But I also see some part of the same Chapter that Paul emphasize it is more of a question of LIBERTY
that is: freedom of what we choose or how
"each of us shall give account of himself to God"...
"Let each be fully convinced in his own mind"
"Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
"But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin"

 

[aha]

But it's only Jesus who can reveal scripture to us to show us what it all means. Since he is the Word.

Yes. I think everyone agrees on that: at the end of the day, i think it will still be a "revelation"

Hermeneutics …. Apologetics…. they are there for a good reason…as I see it....
But still, the deliverance is of the Lord….

Proverbs 21:31
New King James Version (NKJV)
The horse is prepared for the day of battle,
But deliverance is of the Lord.

 

[JohnC]

I have beed told by many theological type Christians over and over that this is not for us or that is not truth but just metaphore or this is not truth and this means that and that means this.

This is a perfect example of the consequences of The Secular World administering the Things of God.... and why Jesus put a prohibition on such "Give unto Caesar the things of Caesar, give unto God the things of God"

Remember that teaching bible in schools has been a facet of our SECULAR educational system in "The West" for well over 1,000 years - up until nominally 1970 in some places in the USA - the late 1980's in other places in the USA..... While it had some good consequences - it also had some very bad consequences....

There are/were a LOT of people who were very good "At bible" who didn't BELIEVE a lick of it... BUT - they were talented at translation, history, or at textual criticism or just "Gifted" at studying and writing papers..... Those people went on to get PHD's in "Divinity", translation, textual criticism, old testament studies, new testament studies, and the rest.... They worked their way into influential positions in seminarys, universities, leadership in big church denominations, etc... All the while - not believing a lick of it... This is not a NEW thing - it's been going on for over 1,000 years....

I would venture to say that now - since Bible is NOT taught in public schools, and the Secular world viewing "Divinity" and "Religious education" as more or less worthless - that we are seeing far fewer people coming out of Secular public education who are "Good at the bible" going on to pursue the "Secular Bible Research" track at Secular universities.... and as such - we will see the sheer volume of such publishing going way down..... Unfortunately - we still have this gigantic bulk of literature written in times past by these fellows to contend with... and it is a monumental task to sift the "Wheat from the chaff" so to speak...

Now, though - we are seeing that the "Tail end" of these fellows who came from Secular public school bible teaching programs are now hitting their prime... They are at "The Top" of the field currently - and it will take another 20-40 years for them to retire/die out.... Since they are at the top - they are the ones who write the text books, and they are the ones who get to referee peer reiewed publication and qualify PHD candidates...

As such - we aren't really out of the woods yet.... but we are starting to move in that direction...

"The mill of God grinds slow - but it grinds exceedingly fine"....

 

[Major]

My point: the learned, those who took pains to study Hermeneutics deserves respect..

The Scribes and the Pharisees who study the text, I guess: uses the same... and they deserves respect from their fellow Jews.. I think…

It is the "hypocrisy" that our Teacher is "attacking", not the tools...

Amen!

 

[Major]

This is true Jim but there are people that will be offended by truth no matter how it is presented.

True. May I say something to you that I observed and have learned over the years.

When someone has learned something that they like, even if it is false, they will defend that thing until their death. You see, as we grow older we like what we know and we just do not want to learn anything new even if what we are defending is totally wrong. It is something built into our psyches (??? spelling).

 

[Major]

But what I'd you ask for something that God does not want you to have? Then He says no, and that is the point I am trying to make.

Then you will not receive it!

 

[Mykuhl]

True. May I say something to you that I observed and have learned over the years.

When someone has learned something that they like, even if it is false, they will defend that thing until their death. You see, as we grow older we like what we know and we just do not want to learn anything new even if what we are defending is totally wrong. It is something built into our psyches (??? spelling).

I agree Major. In addition, I think the motivating reasons behind that is pride and fear. Pride because we think that we know better due to years of learning and experience, or just some favoured position. Fear, because of how we might look in front of people if we are proved wrong or what it might cost us if we accept this new truth. There is also pride in that fear because it takes humility to admit you are wrong and to be able to think and act in a different way because of it.