Grace Is Not 'unmerited Favor'

[MichaelH]

Michael H.

Have you not paid any attention to what the title to my PDF is 'THE FALLING AWAY IS HERE'...

That is the 'times' I am referring to. The Bible is clear that there will be a falling away before the return of the Lord and that group will be destroyed at His coming. I

TC

Bible is clear where there is a "Falling Away" What group is falling away, who are they?

The tares are the "WORLD" not the church, not a use to be church, but the whole World.
"The tares of the wicked One" (Mat 13:38)

Michael H.

Have you not paid any attention to what the title to my PDF is 'THE FALLING AWAY IS HERE'...

. The wicked are those from the falling away. If you are believing in a rapture theory, and angels come down to gather 'the wicked' and take them away...what will you think when you are 'left behind'? Will you understand the times or think that it is some sort of alien invasion?
TC

NO, the wicked are those in the World, why are you trying to make a special "Falling Away" Group that is not mentioned in scripture?

There is ZERO scripture about any place called (Church) that falls away. ZERO

There is scripture warning to the 7 churches in Asia Minor that if they don't get things right, then bad things happen. Those churches are long gone, but scripture concerning churches to get it right would be relevant today as the Word is eternal and forever.

The only Church mentioned is the one where the Gates of Hell do not prevail and is presented without spot or blemish. No scripture about a group of people falling away or something that used to be a (True Church) falling away.

That does not mean there are not lots of Bad places people call (Church) but the Lord is not involved with any of it, as it's not His church............... "Depart from me, I knew you not"

Clear up these things.

 

[The Town Crier]

Bible is clear where there is a "Falling Away" What group is falling away, who are they?

The tares are the "WORLD" not the church, not a use to be church, but the whole World.
"The tares of the wicked One" (Mat 13:38)






NO, the wicked are those in the World, why are you trying to make a special "Falling Away" Group that is not mentioned in scripture?

There is ZERO scripture about any place called (Church) that falls away. ZERO

There is scripture warning to the 7 churches in Asia Minor that if they don't get things right, then bad things happen. Those churches are long gone, but scripture concerning churches to get it right would be relevant today as the Word is eternal and forever.

The only Church mentioned is the one where the Gates of Hell do not prevail and is presented without spot or blemish. No scripture about a group of people falling away or something that used to be a (True Church) falling away.

That does not mean there are not lots of Bad places people call (Church) but the Lord is not involved with any of it, as it's not His church............... "Depart from me, I knew you not"

Clear up these things.

Hi Michael..ok lets start here:

People do fall away and there are warnings about it:

Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

There are more, but that was just for proof. Now-The Bible is clear... Paul said that the Lord will not return until a falling away comes first:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Did you get that so far?

The words falling away in Greek is 'apostasy' which means to divorce or separate...It is a female ( as in a man divorces his wife)
If you continue reading about the 'falling away' it calls this 'the wicked' and it says 'they' and 'them'...It is not just one person:

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth,
but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Now..the words 'believe not' translate as 'disobedient' in other words, they do not obey the truth...

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Notice- there is a group who does not know God and another group that disobeys the gospel.

You cannot disobey a gospel you have no knowledge of...These are people who have the knowledge of the truth:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

ok...ponder that for a minute- they hold the truth. They fell away from sound doctrine...It says they and them...they are called 'the wicked' because they fall away and begin to follow Satan. It is a 'divorce' Which means the offending party is female. Now God said it is only for fornication that one can put away their wife...So is there a 'female' that 'falls' and is accused of fornication anywhere in scripture?


Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me,
Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

Babylon is called a harlot because she cheats on God...She thinks that she is a 'queen' (the bride of Christ')... Are you getting the picture yet?

TC

 

[The Town Crier]

Hi Michael..ok lets start here:

People do fall away and there are warnings about it:

Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

There are more, but that was just for proof. Now-The Bible is clear... Paul said that the Lord will not return until a falling away comes first:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Did you get that so far?

The words falling away in Greek is 'apostasy' which means to divorce or separation...It is a female ( as in a man divorces his wife)
If you continue reading about the 'falling away' it calls this 'the wicked' and it says 'they' and 'them'...It is not just one person:

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth,
but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Now..the words 'believe not' translate as 'disobedient' in other words, they do not obey the truth...

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Notice- there is a group who does not know God and another group that disobeys the gospel.

You cannot disobey a gospel you have no knowledge of...These are people who have the knowledge of the truth:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

ok...ponder that for a minute- they hold the truth. They fell away from sound doctrine...It says they and them...they are called 'the wicked' because they fall away and begin to follow Satan. It is a 'divorce' Which means the offending party is female. Now God said it is only for fornication that one can put away their wife...So is there a 'female' that 'falls' and is accused of fornication?


Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me,
Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

Babylon is called a harlot because she cheats on God...She thinks that she is a 'queen' (the bride of Christ')... Are you getting the picture yet?

TC

Continued from last post...

Back to the falling away...

The falling away is a group of people who leave the truth and begin to live unrighteous lives even while having the truth.
This is a group that is on the earth at the return of the Lord.

They are gathered first by the angels and yes they are tares. Read the parable of the tares the sower sows seed and the devil plants bad seed in with the good. The field is the world the good seed are the children of the kingdom- the bad are the children of the wicked one...I will give you an example of 'the wicked':

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves
that wicked person.

The wicked person is within the group and does not follow sound doctrine- In the case of the falling away, it is a whole nation.

America is 'Babylon the Harlot' and her inhabitants are the wicked who left Him...Spiritually speaking, churches are dead- there is more divorce , adultery, covetousness, idolatry, and a host of other immoral things going on inside the 'churches' of America than out of it. It is no wonder God calls the place a whore...She has become one...

 

[The Town Crier]

Continued from last post...

Back to the falling away...

The falling away is a group of people who leave the truth and begin to live unrighteous lives even while having the truth.
This is a group that is on the earth at the return of the Lord.

They are gathered first by the angels and yes they are tares. Read the parable of the tares the sower sows seed and the devil plants bad seed in with the good. The field is the world the good seed are the children of the kingdom- the bad are the children of the wicked one...I will give you an example of 'the wicked':

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves
that wicked person.

The wicked person is within the group and does not follow sound doctrine- In the case of the falling away, it is a whole nation.

America is 'Babylon the Harlot' and her inhabitants are the wicked who left Him...Spiritually speaking, churches are dead- there is more divorce , adultery, covetousness, idolatry, and a host of other immoral things going on inside the 'churches' of America than out of it. It is no wonder God calls the place a whore...She has become one...

Now one other aspect to the apostasy or divorce...It is God's doing- He says that He gives them a strong delusion that they believe a lie...

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

They are prophesied about in Romans:

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Can you see any likeness to what is taking place right now in America...You would have to be blind and deaf not to see it...

God has separated Himself from this nation and look at all the things that are befalling it. God is going to undo all of the blessings He gave to this place because it turned on Him.

Deu 8:10 When thou hast eaten and art full, then thou shalt bless the LORD thy God for the good land which he hath given thee.
Deu 8:11 Beware that thou forget not the LORD thy God, in not keeping his commandments, and his judgments, and his statutes, which I command thee this day:
Deu 8:12 Lest when thou hast eaten and art full, and hast built goodly houses, and dwelt therein;
Deu 8:13 And when thy herds and thy flocks multiply, and thy silver and thy gold is multiplied, and all that thou hast is multiplied;
Deu 8:14 Then thine heart be lifted up, and thou forget the LORD thy God, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage;
Deu 8:15 Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint;
Deu 8:16 Who fed thee in the wilderness with manna, which thy fathers knew not, that he might humble thee, and that he might prove thee, to do thee good at thy latter end;
Deu 8:17 And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.
Deu 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
Deu 8:19 And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.
Deu 8:20 As the nations which the LORD destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God.

Judgment is coming for the Harlot...The United States fits every single description of end times Babylon in the Bible...Read pages 86-118 of the PDF and you will see..

Click here to read it: 'The falling away is here' PDF

 

[MichaelH]

First...................... try to go a bit shorter and just ref the scriptures, I know them.

Apostasia does mean depart, but it's Verb root means depart, the other stasis means standing previous.
(Something like that) Depart from a previous standing.

Luke 8:13 (Also Mark 4) They have no root in themselves, Endure trouble for awhile but after having no foundations they become offended or (Depart) from what they were believing the Word about. aphistēmi

The sower sows the Word, so they depart from the Word. It does not mean they stopped being believers, it means they stopped believing whatever they were believing for having no root because of trouble and no foundation. Often they get offended at God for not coming through for them.

Back to Apostasia.

The word being a female noun can't tell us what it departs from. Since we can't use the Male Noun "Son of Perdition" (which may be a Greek title) because He is reveled "AFTER" the Apostasia. We have to go back to the article and read it like someone would understand the Greek.

By the Gathering Together unto the Lord Jesus.

That is the only reference to a departure and not soon be troubled for that Gathering... Departure will happen first before the Son of Perdition is revealed.

Apostasia can't tell us anything about who departed or why they departed, your making that part up. It's A Female noun!!!! So it reference back to the start of the main Article which is about the Day of the Lord Jesus Christ and the gathering of the Church.

I don't want to have to break down a Greek lesson here. Female Nouns need the article or male noun after to define themselves.
We just don't make stuff up and define them to suite what we want to believe. People remove eternal punishment that way and you don't want to be part of that crowd.

Strong Delusion:
That comes on those that never obeyed the word...................... Why go through all that? I asked for the reference to this body of believers who left. There are billions of people that Don't even Give Jesus the time of day............. Yet you give me a whole page???
Stay focused!!!

Romans Chapter 1:

Paul is not speaking about believers that Left............. yet you go into a page of stuff...... Why do this to me? I did read it, but I just scratch my head.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(Rom 1:18-20)

All of creation is a witness against every man. No man will say they did not know for God has revealed it to them. Hence why so many fight for the concept of Evolution. This is not a church that went bad, this is a witness against everyone because you can't look at creation and not say it all happened by chance.

Deu 8:10

Why we in Deuteronomy? Church that left, and went bad!!! Focus!!!

1 Co 5:11 ut now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1 Co 5:12 or what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1 Co 5:13 ut them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves
that wicked person.

Finally!!! You got one!!! Also in Gal about no drunks inherit the Kingdom of God. (Does not say they won't be saved, just not inherit the Kingdom. Kingdom is not a place, and another Greek Female noun.

Yes, we should let those know in our group, and do as Paul said. We also see the effects of Paul turning over the man to Satan having sex with his fathers wife, He also was a believer.

I need the scripture where a group Goes bad though to fit this "falling away" theory you have. I will help you out, there is none. In fact The Lord Jesus presents himself a glorious church where the gates of Hell won't prevail. There is no such thing as a Bad church of the Lord Jesus, they are either being corrected or they are not his.

America:
There is zero scripture where you and I are responsible for the Goverment or what the United States does. As long as we are here, this country is safe, just like those with Paul in the Boat. We are to pray for our government, but we are told things are going to get worse, so no use complaining about scripture coming to pass.

Sorry so long. I understand you want folks to get it right, so do I. Don't let this consume you. You can't change people if they don't care to hear what is right. There are many that will listen to you though and get help. I saw one person here already you helped.

Blessings.

 

[The Town Crier]

First...................... try to go a bit shorter and just ref the scriptures, I know them.

Apostasia does mean depart, but it's Verb root means depart, the other stasis means standing previous.
(Something like that) Depart from a previous standing.

Luke 8:13 (Also Mark 4) They have no root in themselves, Endure trouble for awhile but after having no foundations they become offended or (Depart) from what they were believing the Word about. aphistēmi

The sower sows the Word, so they depart from the Word. It does not mean they stopped being believers, it means they stopped believing whatever they were believing for having no root because of trouble and no foundation. Often they get offended at God for not coming through for them.

Back to Apostasia.

The word being a female noun can't tell us what it departs from. Since we can't use the Male Noun "Son of Perdition" (which may be a Greek title) because He is reveled "AFTER" the Apostasia. We have to go back to the article and read it like someone would understand the Greek.

By the Gathering Together unto the Lord Jesus.

That is the only reference to a departure and not soon be troubled for that Gathering... Departure will happen first before the Son of Perdition is revealed.

Apostasia can't tell us anything about who departed or why they departed, your making that part up. It's A Female noun!!!! So it reference back to the start of the main Article which is about the Day of the Lord Jesus Christ and the gathering of the Church.

I don't want to have to break down a Greek lesson here. Female Nouns need the article or male noun after to define themselves.
We just don't make stuff up and define them to suite what we want to believe. People remove eternal punishment that way and you don't want to be part of that crowd.
Strong Delusion:
That comes on those that never obeyed the word...................... Why go through all that? I asked for the reference to this body of believers who left. There are billions of people that Don't even Give Jesus the time of day............. Yet you give me a whole page???
Stay focused!!!

Romans Chapter 1:

Paul is not speaking about believers that Left............. yet you go into a page of stuff...... Why do this to me? I did read it, but I just scratch my head.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(Rom 1:18-20)

All of creation is a witness against every man. No man will say they did not know for God has revealed it to them. Hence why so many fight for the concept of Evolution. This is not a church that went bad, this is a witness against everyone because you can't look at creation and not say it all happened by chance.

Deu 8:10

Why we in Deuteronomy? Church that left, and went bad!!! Focus!!!



Finally!!! You got one!!! Also in Gal about no drunks inherit the Kingdom of God. (Does not say they won't be saved, just not inherit the Kingdom. Kingdom is not a place, and another Greek Female noun.

Yes, we should let those know in our group, and do as Paul said. We also see the effects of Paul turning over the man to Satan having sex with his fathers wife, He also was a believer.

I need the scripture where a group Goes bad though to fit this "falling away" theory you have. I will help you out, there is none. In fact The Lord Jesus presents himself a glorious church where the gates of Hell won't prevail. There is no such thing as a Bad church of the Lord Jesus, they are either being corrected or they are not his.
America:
There is zero scripture where you and I are responsible for the Goverment or what the United States does. As long as we are here, this country is safe, just like those with Paul in the Boat. We are to pray for our government, but we are told things are going to get worse, so no use complaining about scripture coming to pass.

Sorry so long. I understand you want folks to get it right, so do I. Don't let this consume you. You can't change people if they don't care to hear what is right. There are many that will listen to you though and get help. I saw one person here already you helped.

Blessings.

MichaelH...What would a man on an island do who has zero knowledge of Greek. He would read the Bible just as it says and take it for what is written. To know the word of God and rightly divide it, you do not have to understand Greek.

I won't go into detail with how badly you butchered things, I will just use one of your last statements to some it all up:

"As long as we are here, this country is safe, just like those with Paul in the Boat". What an arrogant statement. Go to the middle East and make that proclamation to Christians over there...and see what they tell you about your American Christianity. God resists the proud but giveth grace to the humble- The proudest nation on the Planet does not have God's grace my friend. America is the synagogue of Satan...

The whole point of the falling away is to explain that a people who think they are God's are not and He sends them strong delusion that they would believe a lie...You made my point for me with your statement. "As long as we are here, this country is safe, just like those with Paul in the Boat". You actually believe that 'Christians' in America are what is keeping the nation from being destroyed and that you will be removed before it takes place. You are defifitley delusional...You have played 'gymnastics' with the scriptures to justify your rapture theory that simply does not hold water. When no rapture comes, and God begins to deal with this place, then perhaps you will open your eyes...

TC

 

[MichaelH]

MichaelH...What would a man on an island do who has zero knowledge of Greek. He would read the Bible just as it says and take it for what is written. To know the word of God and rightly divide it, you do not have to understand Greek.

I won't go into detail with how badly you butchered things, I will just use one of your last statements to some it all up:

"As long as we are here, this country is safe, just like those with Paul in the Boat". What an arrogant statement. Go to the middle East and make that proclamation to Christians over there...and see what they tell you about your American Christianity. God resists the proud but giveth grace to the humble- The proudest nation on the Planet does not have God's grace my friend. America is the synagogue of Satan...

The whole point of the falling away is to explain that a people who think they are God's are not and He sends them strong delusion that they would believe a lie..
TC

I butchered Nothing. Don't like Greek? You have used it yourself, but since it don't suit you now you change?

Apostasia does not mean fall away from the truth, it does not mean fall way from anything as it can't define itself being a Female noun. Just like Faith is a female noun but it wont' tell you how much faith or faith in what.
Wedding is a female noun, but it can't tell you who's wedding, or where the Wedding is at.

You just don't beat up language to make points.
I suppose you don't like the Word Christ because that is still a Greek Word never translated.

The female noun points back to the subject of the Article and that is how it would be understood, since we can't connect it to "Falling Away" from the Son of Perdition. We normally look for a Male Noun after to define a Female noun.

"Faith in Jesus Christ"

2Th 2:1 Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you

Do not be troubled, because..........................................

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

The departure would be connected to the subject or us leaving with the Lord Jesus.

That is how they would have read it, and how it's suppose to be read.

There is no such thing as this Falling away, it's not even in scriptures!!!!

If the Holy Spirit meant by the subject "US being gathered by Jesus" as getting into Error, then the Holy Spirit would have used a Verb like Parapipto.

Parapipto is not related by any root to Apostasia. (Depart-Once stood)

Parapipto Closest meaning in English is Apostasy or to turn aside from what is true. In Fact Strongs translates it as such in the Word study (Not concordance definitions)

Go to the middle East and make that proclamation to Christians over there...and see what they tell you about your American Christianity.

Jesus said....... Nothing by any means shall hurt you......... None of the disciples died before completing all God had them do, Paul said I must offer myself up as they could not get him until it's time. I preached with Muslims in Prison and been delivered several times.

Where is your faith?

If your with me, you safe, because I am safe. You know Lot was saved from Sodom? We do have a covenant and a good God that protects us, I have seen it over and over. No weapon formed against me can prosper, (Isa 54:17) so either the scripture is wrong or your making things up.

Strong Delusion:

The Lord gathers up his people before the Son of Perdition is revealed.
The anointed Church is in the way and the Lord must remove the light in the World, or his Body.
Those that did not believe the gospel, God will send a strong delusion as those people did not believe what we taught.

If you don't like America, then don't visit or leave. While we are here, we are fine as we are told to pray for those in charge that things may go well for us.

That is scripture!!!

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
(1Ti 2:1-2)

Your wrong, or the Scripture is Wrong...........................

 

[The Town Crier]

I butchered Nothing. Don't like Greek? You have used it yourself, but since it don't suit you now you change?

Apostasia does not mean fall away from the truth, it does not mean fall way from anything as it can't define itself being a Female noun. Just like Faith is a female noun but it wont' tell you how much faith or faith in what.
Wedding is a female noun, but it can't tell you who's wedding, or where the Wedding is at.

You just don't beat up language to make points.
I suppose you don't like the Word Christ because that is still a Greek Word never translated.

The female noun points back to the subject of the Article and that is how it would be understood, since we can't connect it to "Falling Away" from the Son of Perdition. We normally look for a Male Noun after to define a Female noun.

"Faith in Jesus Christ"
2Th 2:1 Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you

Do not be troubled, because..........................................

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

The departure would be connected to the subject or us leaving with the Lord Jesus.

That is how they would have read it, and how it's suppose to be read.

There is no such thing as this Falling away, it's not even in scriptures!!!!

If the Holy Spirit meant by the subject "US being gathered by Jesus" as getting into Error, then the Holy Spirit would have used a Verb like Parapipto.

Parapipto is not related by any root to Apostasia. (Depart-Once stood)

Parapipto Closest meaning in English is Apostasy or to turn aside from what is true. In Fact Strongs translates it as such in the Word study (Not concordance definitions)



Jesus said....... Nothing by any means shall hurt you......... None of the disciples died before completing all God had them do, Paul said I must offer myself up as they could not get him until it's time. I preached with Muslims in Prison and been delivered several times.

Where is your faith?

If your with me, you safe, because I am safe. You know Lot was saved from Sodom? We do have a covenant and a good God that protects us, I have seen it over and over. No weapon formed against me can prosper, (Isa 54:17) so either the scripture is wrong or your making things up.

Strong Delusion:

The Lord gathers up his people before the Son of Perdition is revealed.
The anointed Church is in the way and the Lord must remove the light in the World, or his Body.
Those that did not believe the gospel, God will send a strong delusion as those people did not believe what we taught.

If you don't like America, then don't visit or leave. While we are here, we are fine as we are told to pray for those in charge that things may go well for us.

That is scripture!!!

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
(1Ti 2:1-2)

Your wrong, or the Scripture is Wrong...........................

Wow!! Are you kidding me...

Let's look at the verse again

2 Th 2:1 ow we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 Th 2:2 hat ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

It says clearly that our gathering to Him cannot come unless a 'falling away' comes first..

Now let's look at your 'version' of the events:


2Th 2:1 Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you

Do not be troubled, because..........................................

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

THEN YOU STATE:

"The departure would be connected to the subject or us leaving with the Lord Jesus.

That is how they would have read it, and how it's suppose to be read.

There is no such thing as this Falling away, it's not even in scriptures!!!!"


So by what you said above "the 'departure' must come before we can be gathered to Him"...and there is "no falling away" in scripture. That is your words...

I do not know what translation you used, but the word for 'falling away' in the Textus Receptus is 'apostasia'.

G646

apostasia
ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.

That is the Greek definition according to Strongs. What you said and the translation you used are in such gross error, there isn't even words for it. By your words you are condemned..Your 'teaching' came not from the Spirit of God- but the spirit of the world. You are either very deceived or a liar in wait to deceive...

The Bible is clear-the falling away must happen before the gathering to Him. Those from the falling away are destroyed at His coming on the clouds, that is why Paul said 'we who are alive' (not destroyed) and 'remain'(still there) in other words-not taken by the angels for destruction are gathered to Him. You have once again twisted scripture to support a theory that is not biblical.

By your 'theology' those that fall away in Luke would be departing to be with the Lord:

Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.


The word in Greek there is 'aphistema'
G868
ἀφίστημι
aphistēmi
af-is'-tay-mee
From G575 and G2476; to remove, that is, (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: - depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.


As for the rest of it..Jesus told the disciples that many would be killed for His namesake yet not a hair on their head would be damaged...If you wrestle with that statement, it is because the truth is not in you.You are clearly in error:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.


You have so badly twisted the truth, that it becomes hard to justify listening to anything else you say...If I were you, I would set down your 'theology' and whatever wretched Bible translation you are using, and go humble yourself to God while there is time...


TC