Harry Potter

RiverJordan said:
I don't understand the relevance. The scripture you quoted refers to offerings to other gods. In this case, we're talking about books and movies that don't have anything to do with gods or Christianity.

I guess I don't understand what "issue" we're talking about. Is the argument that someone who's weak in their faith will read a Harry Potter book and be like, "Well, I'm not a Christian anymore"?
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I will do my best to explain my thoughts! I always don't reflect my thoughts in mind with appropriate words.. So apologies if I end up confusing you more :) Paul was writing this to the prevalent culture at that time.. I come from India and I exactly know what he is talking about.. Hindus offer food to idols before eating.. Now if there is a convert from Hindu, obviously it would be in his mind that it is absolutely wrong.. The reasons could be different.. He might think he would become demon possessed by eating the food.. Many people in India still believe Christians will fall sick if we eat food offered to idols. Even my Indian church pastor believes in that I sort of argued with him.. Now, is it appropriate for me to deliberately eat sacrificed food in front of such Christians? Because I am matured enough to know that it is just going to come out the other side? That is what Paul is saying..

Taking this to today's culture.. Watching Harry Potter movies.. Create an opinion poll among Christians.. Ask how many people believe they could be influenced by demons by watching Harry Potter movies.. I am sure you will get overwhelming response.. They are not to blamed as they are not mature in the Christian faith.. And they don't look at it from legalistic perspective.. It's just something that would be in the conscious.. Instead of causing more confusion to their conscious, let's not just watch the movies! Since we are talking about a social issue, when a group of Christians endorse Harry Potter movies, it throws confusion for less mature Christians.. That is why I am saying, as more mature Christians let's not do anything which is not going to glorify God.. I am not saying watching Harry Potter movies makes us any less Christian.. but it does not strengthen the fellowship.. That is all I am saying..
 
Glomung said:
Kristoffer - could you enlighten me? Where is witchcraft presented in the LOTR trilogy?
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There are "wizards" and "spells" all through the lord of the rings movies. Unless we are gonna get into a disagreement and split hairs about what exactly constitutes "witchcraft".
 
Fiction works like a microscope. It allows us to take a few elements from the real world, and explore them in ways that wouldn't normally occur to us. Fantasy and sci-fi are particularly helpful genres for this exploration, because they present a reality so far removed from our own that we can explore concepts more objectively than we normally view them in our own lives (i.e., we feel less "accused" or preached at while we examine ourselves).

For example, when I watch Star Trek, do I see it as a bold claim that aliens really do exist? To me, in presenting a fictional environment where we can see aliens, androids and humans interacting with each other, we have an opportunity to explore what the essence of humanity is. What is it that makes a human, human?

Because we all have different experiences, fiction will always "be about" something slightly different to each of us. To me, then, it doesn't seem particularly helpful to insist that Harry Potter is inherently about one thing or another. One person will see an exploration of community, use of power, segregation, etc. Another will simply see a glorification of magic. If watching Harry Potter tempts someone to seek a power other than God, that person probably shouldn't watch it. But that person should also be able to understand that his perception of that work of fiction won't be shared by everyone.
 
Ravindran said:
Taking this to today's culture.. Watching Harry Potter movies.. Create an opinion poll among Christians.. Ask how many people believe they could be influenced by demons by watching Harry Potter movies..
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That's what I don't get. How does watching a movie or reading a book open the possibility of demonic influence? If that's all it takes, then just about everything outside the Bible and Church should be off limits!

Instead of causing more confusion to their conscious, let's not just watch the movies! Since we are talking about a social issue, when a group of Christians endorse Harry Potter movies, it throws confusion for less mature Christians.
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What's the confusing part? Christians merely having different opinions? I read/watched Harry Potter not because I thought I was "strong enough in faith", but because IMO they're not any different than other books and movies. I understand that some Christians feel differently, but that shouldn't come as a surprise. I mean, if me reading Harry Potter books while other Christians say we shouldn't results in a new believer thinking "Are we or aren't we allowed to read these? I'm so confused!", then the issue isn't Harry Potter. It's more like you're arguing all Christians have to think and behave alike, lest we confuse the noobs.

That is why I am saying, as more mature Christians let's not do anything which is not going to glorify God.
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???? So we're supposed to be Monks/Nuns? Never do anything that isn't 100% about glorifying God? I think that's ridiculous.
 
RiverJordan said:
???? So we're supposed to be Monks/Nuns? Never do anything that isn't 100% about glorifying God?
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Br. Pio Maria isn't impressed.

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RiverJordan said:
It's more like you're arguing all Christians have to think and behave alike, lest we confuse the noobs.
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I get what you're saying here, River. I hear where you're coming from, I don't think you're wrong. But there is something to be said about consideration for the "noobs." Check out the whole of 1 Cor 8, it's an interesting exploration. V9: Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak.
 
Oh absolutely we have to consider the noobs. But IMO that also includes showing them that you can be a normal, functioning member of society and a Christian. I think too many Christians give the impression that we are supposed to isolate ourselves from society and never have any fun or enjoyment. Kinda like Ned Flanders.

One of our youth pastors is a really good basketball player. It makes a huge impression on kids when he can run the court with them and kick their butts most of the time. Just doing that opens a lot of doors that would otherwise be closed.
 
Split hairs, no. Have a rational discussion about the subject maybe, depending on you.
Wizard = wise man, no more, no less.
Gandalf, Saruman, Rhadagast, Allatar, and Pallando were Maiar (angelic beings) sent into the world to help men and elves fight against the powers of darkness. Perhaps you haven't actually read the LOTR books so are speaking in ignorance?

Spell comes from the term "to speak". I am very well aware of the Hollywood and Disney representation of "magic and spells"
(which is all pure hogwash) but were are discussing a particular author's works here.

If speaking a phrase and it coming to pass is "witchcraft", then Our Lord, the Prophets, and all the Saints are "witches".

There is nothing in any of Tolkien's works that supports "witchcraft" in any way.
 
I have come to the conclusion that I'm going to continue reading/watching the movies if I don't do any of the stuff they do.
 
Glomung said:
Split hairs, no. Have a rational discussion about the subject maybe, depending on you.
Wizard = wise man, no more, no less.
Gandalf, Saruman, Rhadagast, Allatar, and Pallando were Maiar (angelic beings) sent into the world to help men and elves fight against the powers of darkness. Perhaps you haven't actually read the LOTR books so are speaking in ignorance?

Spell comes from the term "to speak". I am very well aware of the Hollywood and Disney representation of "magic and spells"
(which is all pure hogwash) but were are discussing a particular author's works here.

If speaking a phrase and it coming to pass is "witchcraft", then Our Lord, the Prophets, and all the Saints are "witches".

There is nothing in any of Tolkien's works that supports "witchcraft" in any way.
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No, I haven't read the books. I'm going by the movies and you can try and spin it all you want, but what I see in the lord of the rings movies is witchcraft. Desperate attempts to explain it away doesn't change what it is. Spells, wizards, witches, and witchcraft are all birds of a feather as far as I'm concerned.

Jesus and the disciples didnt go around casting "spells".
 
RiverJordan said:
They didn't drive cars either, but I still watch movies with car chases. :p
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I dont believe someone is going to hell for watching lord of the rings, and I'm not even necessarily saying that its a sin to watch it, but I'm just not buying that those movies are "Christian friendly".

It just one of those "all things are lawful but not all things are beneficial" type of things where everyone has to be persuaded in his own mind.
 
I don't see them as "Christian friendly" either, but I don't restrict everything I do to only "Christian friendly" activities. For example, is soccer "Christian friendly"? I don't see how it is, but I've played it a lot.
 
RiverJordan said:
I don't see them as "Christian friendly" either, but I don't restrict everything I do to only "Christian friendly" activities. For example, is soccer "Christian friendly"? I don't see how it is, but I've played it a lot.
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I see soccer as being Christian friendly. I believe friendly competition is perfectly fine. Paul compared the Christian walk to Olympic events. 1 Cor 9:24-27

Something I would deem as not being Christian friendly, would be anything that glorifies or promotes what the Bible clearly teaches is sin.
 
Kristoffer8219 said:
I see soccer as being Christian friendly. I believe friendly competition is perfectly fine. Paul compared the Christian walk to Olympic events. 1 Cor 9:24-27

Something I would deem as not being Christian friendly, would be anything that glorifies or promotes what the Bible clearly teaches is sin.
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So Harry Potter is a sin to read/watch?
 
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I tend to agree, but there are plenty of Christians who think competitive sports are not Christian friendly. IMO, it's all a matter of degrees and personal decisions. For example, we played matches on Sundays. I played, but the girls who were LDS never did.
 
Enjoying the story does not mean acceptance of witchcraft. My wife read all the books to my two sons when they were little boys. Both are now solid Christians - my eldest having brought several to Christ. A Christian must also live in a secular world and live by example. Jesus talked and ate with many sinners.
 
gbeecher said:
Enjoying the story does not mean acceptance of witchcraft. My wife read all the books to my two sons when they were little boys. Both are now solid Christians - my eldest having brought several to Christ. A Christian must also live in a secular world and live by example. Jesus talked and ate with many sinners.
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I agree that just because you enjoy the story doesn't mean you accept witchcraft, but what does the story glorify? I have never seen an entire harry potter movie, but judging by what I know, it seems the obvious answer is that it glorifies witchcraft. We live in a secular world, and part of setting an example is by not living like the secular world, and I think that would include certain types of entertainment.

Yes Jesus talked and ate with many sinners, but unlike Jesus, we are susceptible to giving in to temptation. Jesus was never in danger of that. So we need to be more careful.
 
Guys, in the end it's just a fantasy book/film series. So, me, and me alone say I'm going to continue reading/watching the movies.
 
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