That was my intention... to put it in as an edit, but while typing it you quoted it so I needed to then make a new post. check the time stamps and you will see that I am correct in what I am saying.
Heaven, do we really go there?
- Thread starter Cosmicwaffle
- Start date
Huntingteckel
Inactive
So, you're saying I should have read your post before I replied even though you hadn't posted it yet?
That is just the trouble. Every group or organization will claim that they have the truth.
I don't know of any web site that simply tabulates all the relevant passages and lets the reader form his own understanding.
It is possible that there is no time beyond this life, just eternity. So if that were the case then when we die we would go straight to the resurrection with no perceptible wait time. but then if we take Rev 6:9. literally, that idea wont hold water. So, we'll just have to wait and see. I'm dying to find out though.
That is not what I said, that is not what is in the quoted comment from me in your post. If you want an argument please take it off the public forum area.
Huntingteckel
Inactive
I'm just clearing up a misunderstanding.
for non crucial issues, I think Romans 14 already reconciled those....
The vegetarian question and holidays are a conflicting viewpoint.
And yet, there is a common ground: both give thanks to God...
Romans 14 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Law of Liberty
14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose[b] and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.[c] 11 For it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”[d]
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
The Law of Love
14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things[e] is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.[f] 22 Do you have faith?[g] Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.[h]
The closest online resource I have seen is Gotquestions. They got all the major doctrines right! Systematic Theology books are also very good. The one by Wayne Grudem has very good feedback. I personally like his ministry also. These are resources outside our primary source of Holy Spirit and the Word of God itself..
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
That's one of those sites that sets off alarm bells for me because they are pretty virulently anti-Catholic.
http://www.gotquestions.org/catholicism.html
Yes, I have heard that.. What if the verse actually meant "Truly, I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise"
One of those things for which we will never get a concrete answer.. As you said, this is not the most crucial issue..
I think both sides of the camp have very good valid points for their argument.
Not for me though
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
Even if I wasn't affiliated with the Catholics growing up, I'd be very skeptical of a website that attacks the largest body of Christians in the world. I'd feel the same way if it was directed at Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, etc.Not for me though
Huntingteckel
Inactive
That makes more sense with the rest of Scripture, in my opinion.
Okay.. A more serious reply.. May be I will not condone Catholics to that extent.. Agreed.. It is not to say I agree with Catholic doctrines.. But I don't go that extent of calling out..
With this website, that does not change their stand on all the other important doctrinal issues..
This is deviating too much from the OP.. May be we should take this offline or another thread..
That introduces certain other complexities as well.. It would then mean paradise and heaven are 2 separate places.. If a person in in paradise, will he be with Jesus? If so, then Jesus has ascended into heaven and seated on the throne. If Jesus is in Paradise also, wouldn't that make paradise and heaven the same?
Huntingteckel
Inactive
What verses are you using?
reading the link, reading such as:
" Not ALL Baptists are saved. Not ALL Presbyterians are saved. Not ALL Lutherans are saved. Salvation is determined by personal faith in Jesus alone for salvation, not by titles or denominational identification."
"There are many Roman Catholics who have genuinely placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation"
"To varying degrees, the Catholic Church teaches from the Bible and points people to Jesus Christ as the Savior. As a result, people are sometimes saved in Catholic churches."
I think it is more on the “faith alone” “faith and works” “faith manifested in works” discourse.
That is: a commitment to a doctrine discourse.
I can compare it to a Calvinism and Arminian debate, although since it is actually not a debate site, rebuttal is not presented : )
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
Why does that verse require "interpretation"? Isn't the plain text good enough? I think a lot of people mix past, present and future events into one single event and get confused. I can try and explain it but I'm not sure it'll be received. Spend time in prayer and meditation instead of going through the fast church drive through to get answers. It's part of doing your own homework and in the end it's something every one of us must do, or we live someone else's life which doesn't count in the end. What if they're wrong? I'm just saying...