How does God speak to you?

[Fish Catcher Jim]

A good None answer Jim. But I know what you would do my brother!
My thought would be to ask you to read the posts #32, 33 34 & 35 again and then tell me who is in an uproar.

Major ?
This does not even make sense. I said all I was doing was trying to come in between the two of you so no one gets points or banned. You can fault me for that if you wish.........It is not about what I may have done or not done BUT what I was trying to keep from being done to either of you.....................

by all means - go after him - try to prove your point- I wont get in the way.
But then it might be a sad day when one of you gets booted out.
God Bless
Jim

 

[KingJ]

1. To believe that the Spirit of God is limited to words in that book alone is naive to say the least.

I shall leave your last words to speak for themselves.

Edit.
2. For those who come on this discussion late, please note that I love the scriptures and have been learning and teaching from them since the 70s. However I utterly reject the way they are constantly being used to crush the movement of the Holy Spirit and the use of the spiritual gifts in the church.

1. To believe the Holy Spirit would contradict what is written in anyway shape or form is borderline heresy Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. I know you are not saying that but is not wiser to teach what Major is saying over '''dreams and visions''. Rev 22:18 is pretty clear as is scripture on leaders leading people astray Matt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Just to touch on what you said about perverted teachers: Scripture always corrects scripture. Look at how the devil quoted scripture with Jesus and Jesus corrected the devil. Not with a dream or vision. Not with words outside of scripture. He said ''it is also written, you shall not tempt God''. The devil kept quiet and left Jesus after that. Humans need to learn to do the same. I would say that most perverted teaching fails long before we get to scripture. I wish we were only having sincere disagreements on interpretations. There are denominational differences and then there are denominational differences . Our first line of defense against heresy is brain matter. Stupidity is stupidity http://www.ibtimes.com/notorious-so...ted-after-feeding-congregation-snakes-2015002.

2. Spiritual gifts are mentioned in scripture. The Holy Spirit would never be crushed by someone using scripture. What is crushed is all the faking. It is carnality / a cry for attention to do certain things we see in some churches. Some people want to ''feel'' like a Christian and not judge themselves to know that they are one. We can tolerate Christians who carry on differently or make seemingly crazy claims. But we can't teach this all from the pulpit. We can only teach scripture. Anyone who finds a meeting boring when scripture is taught is mostly in the flesh.

 

[Major]

1. To believe the Holy Spirit would contradict what is written in anyway shape or form is borderline heresy Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. I know you are not saying that but is not wiser to teach what Major is saying over '''dreams and visions''. Rev 22:18 is pretty clear as is scripture on leaders leading people astray Matt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Just to touch on what you said about perverted teachers: Scripture always corrects scripture. Look at how the devil quoted scripture with Jesus and Jesus corrected the devil. Not with a dream or vision. Not with words outside of scripture. He said ''it is also written, you shall not tempt God''. The devil kept quiet and left Jesus after that. Humans need to learn to do the same. I would say that most perverted teaching fails long before we get to scripture. I wish we were only having sincere disagreements on interpretations. There are denominational differences and then there are denominational differences . Our first line of defense against heresy is brain matter. Stupidity is stupidity http://www.ibtimes.com/notorious-so...ted-after-feeding-congregation-snakes-2015002.

2. Spiritual gifts are mentioned in scripture. The Holy Spirit would never be crushed by someone using scripture. What is crushed is all the faking. It is carnality / a cry for attention to do certain things we see in some churches. Some people want to ''feel'' like a Christian and not judge themselves to know that they are one. We can tolerate Christians who carry on differently or make seemingly crazy claims. But we can't teach this all from the pulpit. We can only teach scripture. Anyone who finds a meeting boring when scripture is taught is mostly in the flesh.

Amen brother!

It is the Bible, God's Word that tells us that God rewards those who diligently seek HIM. BUT it makes no promises to those who seek "things, or success or revelations" that are contrary to that Word which God has already given.

IMO, when we allow our hearts to take on that kind of false goal, God will very soon become little more than a rich patron whose friendship is based only on what He can give me.

The Scriptures tell us that "God is not a respecter of persons". But when a man says that God has spoken to him and given him a new revelation, then he has just placed himself on a level higher than everyone else and that action alone shows that the Word of God has been rejected.

 

[Major]

Major ?
This does not even make sense. I said all I was doing was trying to come in between the two of you so no one gets points or banned. You can fault me for that if you wish.........It is not about what I may have done or not done BUT what I was trying to keep from being done to either of you.....................

by all means - go after him - try to prove your point- I wont get in the way.
But then it might be a sad day when one of you gets booted out.
God Bless
Jim

My apologies Jim.
I appreciate your concern but to "go after anyone" would in fact be to lower myself to their level and I am not going to do that.
The truth to me is that I have no point to prove. The Scriptures say what they say and all I did was repeat them.

There are plenty of people on this site who can read what was said to me and come to their own conclusions on whether it was a Christian way of speaking to others.

 

[filarks]

I often get word pictures. I've also seen visions. One time we were ministring on the street. We were at a local hot bar. There was a line of young ppl waiting to get in. Only as some came out would others would be let in. It was at its capacity. My ministry partner for the night and I were praying across the street from the place, when all of a sudden I saw the open mouth of a lion. I could see the fangs, teeth and face too. Then the impression in my heart was that these young ppl were being devoured by the god of this world.
I have several others which helped point me in the direction I needed to go for ministry or live.
God speaks to me thru His word and other ppl. It all must be proven by His word to be true before I will receive it if it is from a person. Even if I've known them a long time.
I've also been directed be a inner witness from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Francis Drake]

1. To believe the Holy Spirit would contradict what is written in anyway shape or form is borderline heresy For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. I know you are not saying that but is not wiser to teach what Major is saying over '''dreams and visions''. is pretty clear as is scripture on leaders leading people astray But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Oh dear oh dear, here we go again.
If you admit that I am not saying that, why berate me for it? Why pick a fight with something I never said?
Rev22v18 and Matt18v6 make no mention of dreams and visions, and if anything, they relate to the teaching ministry.

Just to touch on what you said about perverted teachers: Scripture always corrects scripture. Look at how the devil quoted scripture with Jesus and Jesus corrected the devil. Not with a dream or vision. Not with words outside of scripture. He said ''it is also written, you shall not tempt God''.
The devil kept quiet and left Jesus after that. Humans need to learn to do the same.

This is getting really tedious and very very boring.
Again you make stuff up and attack me for it. If you want a discussion, please please do it on what I have said, not the imaginations of your head. Have you ever, ever ever seen any mention or even a hint that I believe we can correct scripture from dreams and visions? I challenge you to go and read the things I have actually said, and please stop attributing half baked drivel to my account, its insulting.

I would say that most perverted teaching fails long before we get to scripture. I wish we were only having sincere disagreements on interpretations. There are denominational differences and then there are denominational differences .

This is gobbledegook.

Our first line of defense against heresy is brain matter.

Your bible says otherwise KingJ, and if scriptural truth really did depend on the brain, then you may as well have non christian academics running the teaching ministry.
All the way through the gospels you see Jesus condemning the expert brains amongst the Jews for their godless doctrines.

1Cor2v9However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived” —
the things God has prepared for those who love him.........
......v14The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
As you can see, it is not the brain, but the spirit that reveals scripture.

Stupidity is stupidity http://www.ibtimes.com/notorious-so...ted-after-feeding-congregation-snakes-2015002.

KingJ, if you are going to continue with straw man arguments, at least pick something that has a tiny measure of connection to me.
Read the linked article and you will see that this preacher was not basing this heresy on any dreams or visions but verses of scripture. So if this article does anything at all, it indicts the bible teaching ministry.
And just to reassure you, I am not following you or major and making such claims against the bible teaching ministry.

2. Spiritual gifts are mentioned in scripture. The Holy Spirit would never be crushed by someone using scripture. What is crushed is all the faking. It is carnality / a cry for attention to do certain things we see in some churches. Some people want to ''feel'' like a Christian and not judge themselves to know that they are one. We can tolerate Christians who carry on differently or make seemingly crazy claims. But we can't teach this all from the pulpit. We can only teach scripture. Anyone who finds a meeting boring when scripture is taught is mostly in the flesh.

I am far too tired to answer this last bit

 

[KingJ]

Oh dear oh dear, here we go again.
If you admit that I am not saying that, why berate me for it? Why pick a fight with something I never said?

I am not trying to pick a fight with you.

Rev22v18 and Matt18v6 make no mention of dreams and visions, and if anything, they relate to the teaching ministry

So when a prophet stands up in front of church telling us all about how God told him last night in a dream that He wants a millionaire to come to church, he is not adding / making a mockery of scripture? Rev 22:18 and Matt 18:6 do not apply to him and his demon inspired vision? He can teach the church to pray ''Our Father who art in heaven please honor my vision and give us a millionaire VS your will be done''. I wish I could say I did not attend this specific church...

I challenge you to go and read the things I have actually said

It would be nice if you could better explain your thoughts here.

1. Like you, the majority insist that the only source of God's will are the written scriptures.

The written scriptures are the only source of God's will. What are you inferring?

2. Just because there are counterfeits, should we ban the real thing? That being the case, perhaps we should ban the teaching ministry

Disagreements in the teaching ministry are more forgiveable as opposed to prophecy, dreams and visions that make it to the publishing house or pulpit. How can you not see that? I agree that we don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water...but we must discern like a madhound. Denominational differences are mostly from innocent mistakes / disagreements. Though all new age teaching, as I said, fails before it gets to discerning scripture (Language / reading blunders).

3. You really are blind aren't you? Every accusation you aim at those who receive dreams and visions can be directly applied to you yourself, Major! So here it is in your own words.

"It is because men are influenced by Satan and therefore mens bible scholarship can not be trusted. IT is for that reason that theology has in been in fact easy to fake."

These are your own words applied directly back to you!
Remember what Jesus said, "Judge not that you be not judged."
Major, you really do need to take that plank out of your eye!

You are simply not comparing apples with apples / silly to jump on this statement. Prophecies, dreams and visions have no scripture to back them. Satan can and does tamper with theology = Christianity 101. Satan / everyone tampering with visions and dreams = using brain 101.

We must trust the honesty of the person >/= someone quoting scripture? Is there actually a person in this world that you don't know personaly that you do trust? ''Judge not that you be not judged'' is out of context.

4. To believe that the Spirit of God is limited to words in that book alone is naive to say the least.

This is a concerning open ended statement. If the Holy Spirit had anything else to say that was pertinent to our salvation....it would be in scripture. Major made a point on God's partiality. This is very true. God does not show favoritism. Wanting God to show partiality to us is carnality at its best. Hence Matt 7:22.

5. However I utterly reject the way they are constantly being used to crush the movement of the Holy Spirit and the use of the spiritual gifts in the church.

Please explain how someone who respects and loves scripture will crush the movement of the Holy Spirit?

Your bible says otherwise KingJ, and if scriptural truth really did depend on the brain, then you may as well have non christian academics running the teaching ministry. All the way through the gospels you see Jesus condemning the expert brains amongst the Jews for their godless doctrines.

1Cor2v9However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived” —
the things God has prepared for those who love him.........
......v14The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
As you can see, it is not the brain, but the spirit that reveals scripture.

I am surprised you arguing this with me. Have you had success preaching to babies? Without a working brain we cannot receive any truth. God reveals the truth to our minds by the Spirit. The bible calls an atheist a fool because he is not using his brain to grasp the dead obvious reality of God's existence. 'A denominational belief of no hell' = You must be blind and not have a working brain to get that from scripture.

KingJ, if you are going to continue with straw man arguments, at least pick something that has a tiny measure of connection to me. Read the linked article and you will see that this preacher was not basing this heresy on any dreams or visions but verses of scripture. So if this article does anything at all, it indicts the bible teaching ministry.

The link was simply evidence of extreme stupidity among Christians. Using brains = Christianity 101.

and just to reassure you, I am not following you or major and making such claims against the bible teaching ministry

1 Thess 5:21 'But examine everything carefully',

 

[KingJ]

The Scriptures tell us that "God is not a respecter of persons". But when a man says that God has spoken to him and given him a new revelation, then he has just placed himself on a level higher than everyone else and that action alone shows that the Word of God has been rejected.

Amen!!!

A couple million Christians names come to mind. Try explaining to them that God does not need another Paul or prophet.

A friend of mine made me laugh recently. He made a profoundish quote and ended with ...his name . Vanity is not Christianity. What bible are people reading?

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Amen!!!

A couple million Christians names come to mind. Try explaining to them that God does not need another Paul or prophet.

A friend of mine made me laugh recently. He made a profoundish quote and ended with ...his name . Vanity is not Christianity. What bible are people reading?

KJ says............
Try explaining to them that God does not need another Paul or prophet.

This is a joke right ? I mean this is not a serious statement from you is it ?

 

[Major]

Amen!!!

A couple million Christians names come to mind. Try explaining to them that God does not need another Paul or prophet.

A friend of mine made me laugh recently. He made a profoundish quote and ended with ...his name . Vanity is not Christianity. What bible are people reading?

That my friend IS THE point. They are NOT reading the Bible at all.

2 Tim. 4:3-3.........
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."

 

[Major]

I am not trying to pick a fight with you.

So when a prophet stands up in front of church telling us all about how God told him last night in a dream that He wants a millionaire to come to church, he is not adding / making a mockery of scripture? Rev 22:18 and Matt 18:6 do not apply to him and his demon inspired vision? He can teach the church to pray ''Our Father who art in heaven please honor my vision and give us a millionaire VS your will be done''. I wish I could say I did not attend this specific church...

It would be nice if you could better explain your thoughts here.

1. Like you, the majority insist that the only source of God's will are the written scriptures.

The written scriptures are the only source of God's will. What are you inferring?

2. Just because there are counterfeits, should we ban the real thing? That being the case, perhaps we should ban the teaching ministry

Disagreements in the teaching ministry are more forgiveable as opposed to prophecy, dreams and visions that make it to the publishing house or pulpit. How can you not see that? I agree that we don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water...but we must discern like a madhound. Denominational differences are mostly from innocent mistakes / disagreements. Though all new age teaching, as I said, fails before it gets to discerning scripture (Language / reading blunders).

3. You really are blind aren't you? Every accusation you aim at those who receive dreams and visions can be directly applied to you yourself, Major! So here it is in your own words.

"It is because men are influenced by Satan and therefore mens bible scholarship can not be trusted. IT is for that reason that theology has in been in fact easy to fake."

These are your own words applied directly back to you!
Remember what Jesus said, "Judge not that you be not judged."
Major, you really do need to take that plank out of your eye!

You are simply not comparing apples with apples / silly to jump on this statement. Prophecies, dreams and visions have no scripture to back them. Satan can and does tamper with theology = Christianity 101. Satan / everyone tampering with visions and dreams = using brain 101.

We must trust the honesty of the person >/= someone quoting scripture? Is there actually a person in this world that you don't know personaly that you do trust? ''Judge not that you be not judged'' is out of context.

4. To believe that the Spirit of God is limited to words in that book alone is naive to say the least.

This is a concerning open ended statement. If the Holy Spirit had anything else to say that was pertinent to our salvation....it would be in scripture. Major made a point on God's partiality. This is very true. God does not show favoritism. Wanting God to show partiality to us is carnality at its best. Hence Matt 7:22.

5. However I utterly reject the way they are constantly being used to crush the movement of the Holy Spirit and the use of the spiritual gifts in the church.

Please explain how someone who respects and loves scripture will crush the movement of the Holy Spirit?



I am surprised you arguing this with me. Have you had success preaching to babies? Without a working brain we cannot receive any truth. God reveals the truth to our minds by the Spirit. The bible calls an atheist a fool because he is not using his brain to grasp the dead obvious reality of God's existence. 'A denominational belief of no hell' = You must be blind and not have a working brain to get that from scripture.

The link was simply evidence of extreme stupidity among Christians. Using brains = Christianity 101.

1 Thess 5:21 'But examine everything carefully',

Simply outstanding response. The time spent to copy Mr. Drakes own words and then to apply them to and compare them with the Scriptures is an excellent work. May I also say that is was done without malice, rudeness or in an obnoxious manner.

Titus 2:15.....
"Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you."

It shows that there is an agenda at work here. I have no idea what it is but it is obvious that there is one.

Thanks King!!!!

 

[Major]

KJ says............
Try explaining to them that God does not need another Paul or prophet.

This is a joke right ? I mean this is not a serious statement from you is it ?

We all have had this conversation before Jim. He was saying that there is not a need today for apostles (Paul) or prophets.

I agree completely with the comment as today we have the written Word of God.

In Rev. 2:2............
“unto the church in Ephesus write… Thou hast tried them that say they are apostles and are not, and has found them to be liars.”

They were false apostles because they did not see the risen Lord, nor were they commissioned by Him. They did not live or teach to the standard of Scripture.

YOU of course are free to reject that but it is what the Scriptures say to us.

Blessings to you!!

 

[Francis Drake]

Simply outstanding response. The time spent to copy Mr. Drakes own words and then to apply them to and compare them with the Scriptures is an excellent work. May I also say that is was done without malice, rudeness or in an obnoxious manner.

.....
"Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you."

It shows that there is an agenda at work here. I have no idea what it is but it is obvious that there is one.

Thanks King!!!!

Except he hasn't done that has he? Just more straw man stuff and other nonsense.

 

[Francis Drake]

Just wondering whether the following scripture has any relevance today. Any thoughts?
Reading much of this thread, maybe we should get them to edit redundant stuff like this out of the scriptures as it only leads to people wanting to hear God.

1Cor14v26What then is it, brethren? whenever ye may come together, each of you hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation? let all things be for building up; 27if an [unknown] tongue any one do speak, by two, or at the most, by three, and in turn, and let one interpret; 28and if there may be no interpreter, let him be silent in an assembly, and to himself let him speak, and to God. 29And prophets — let two or three speak, and let the others discern, 30and if to another sitting [anything] may be revealed, let the first be silent; 31for ye are able, one by one, all to prophesy, that all may learn, and all may be exhorted, 32and the spiritual gift of prophets to prophets are subject, 33for God is not [a God] of tumult, but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.

 

[Major]

Just wondering whether the following scripture has any relevance today. Any thoughts?
Reading much of this thread, maybe we should get them to edit redundant stuff like this out of the scriptures as it only leads to people wanting to hear God.

1Cor14v26What then is it, brethren? whenever ye may come together, each of you hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation? let all things be for building up; 27if an [unknown] tongue any one do speak, by two, or at the most, by three, and in turn, and let one interpret; 28and if there may be no interpreter, let him be silent in an assembly, and to himself let him speak, and to God. 29And prophets — let two or three speak, and let the others discern, 30and if to another sitting [anything] may be revealed, let the first be silent; 31for ye are able, one by one, all to prophesy, that all may learn, and all may be exhorted, 32and the spiritual gift of prophets to prophets are subject, 33for God is not [a God] of tumult, but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.

YOU asked and I will be glad to answer. I only ask that when you reply, please do so in a courteouse, Christian manner.

You asked...........
"Reading much of this thread, maybe we should get them to edit redundant stuff like this out of the scriptures as it only leads to people wanting to hear God."

NO! Editing or removing anything would be rejecting the directions found in the Bible.

Deut. 4:2.........
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you neither shall ye take anything from it.......".

So the answer is not to remove or edit but to "rightly divide it" so that it can be properly understood.

As for the verses posted which are in question, the bottom line is to understand 1 Corn. 13:10................
"But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part sahll be done away with.".

Now then, what is it that was "IN PART"? In Part translates in the Greek as......"Temporary".

The Bible answers the Bible and in 1 Corinthians 13:8 we find these words....................
"Love never faileth, but whether there be prophrcies, they SHALL FAIL; wheter there be tongues, THET SHALL CEASE, whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away".

Now the question must be.....do we edit or remove these verses as well as those Mr. Drake proposed????
NO! We move forward in an attempt to learn what they mean.

In verse 10, "That which is perfect" in the original Greek is translated as "MATURE". It is neuter in the Greek and therefore refers to a "THING" and not a person. That can only mean then that the reference is to the Bible and NOT the coming of the Lord Jeus Christ.

Now that is the gramattical Greek and it can not be changed or explained away. It is what it is and it is then incombant upon us to understand it and not edit it.

So what does this all mean? Remember YOU asked.

During the early days of the Church, God gave His apostles revelations to do with the new dispensation of Grace that came through the Lord Jesus. Since "THAT WHICH IS PERFECT" there is then no reason for new revelations that are not already written in the Word of God.

Everything we need to know about God, eternity and things having to do with God and ourselves is recorded in our Bible IMO. Today the prophet is actually one who FORTtells what has already been FOREtold.

Now when we get to 1 Corinthians 14 we need to understand that the whole chapter is about the corrections to speaking in tongues. Paul is NOT praising the Corinthians, he is CORRECTING, and then teaching them. If the time is taken to study history it can be found that the gift of tongues was highly sought after in the Corinthian church. It was also a very dangereous gift.

The person who spoke in tongues was very likely to develop a certain amount of spiritual pride and that action would produce a kind of self-hypnotism through a deliberately induced hysteria which came forth in a synthetic, and false deluded speaking in tongues.

Therefore God directed Paul to correctly tell the church that if a believer speaks in a tongue there must be someone present to interpret what is being said. That means then that tongues MUST BE AN INTELLAGABLE LANGUAGE and not some kind on ranting or mumbling.

 

[Major]

Except he hasn't done that has he? Just more straw man stuff and other nonsense.

I am courious to know how you explain how KingJ used YOUR exact words if it is just straw man stuff?

 

[aha]

Just a thought on the “straw man”….: refuting an argument that was not advance in first place…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.[1]

The Speaker/Writer and the Listener/ Reader.

Human that we are, first reading may give the ”reader” an impression of the “speaker” what is saying…. Thus, refuting that “impression”.. BUT on the second or third read, the "impression" may be wrong…

either the "speaker/writer" to be careful of what the "impression" the words they use may give: adjectives or description used usually gives an "impression"
or on the part of the "reader" to be careful to re-read the message...or to apply the verse that comes to mind as below....
​

1 Corinthians 12:1-3King James Version (KJV)
12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

​

what usually "caught" me to fall into straw man is when a Christian brother will use to "label" another Christian brother with non-Christian words "terms" such as "Paganism" or "Mantra"...

I prefer "legalism" at least it tries to be scriptural : )

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

We all have had this conversation before Jim. He was saying that there is not a need today for apostles (Paul) or prophets.

I agree completely with the comment as today we have the written Word of God.

In Rev. 2:2............
“unto the church in Ephesus write… Thou hast tried them that say they are apostles and are not, and has found them to be liars.”

They were false apostles because they did not see the risen Lord, nor were they commissioned by Him. They did not live or teach to the standard of Scripture.

YOU of course are free to reject that but it is what the Scriptures say to us.

Blessings to you!!

Major Greetings,
I say this in Love so please take it this way. Why not allow KJ to speak for him self.
Second is that how can you sit there and say there is no need for apostloes and prophets.
A prophet is a person who God gives them something to say to others that He ( God ) wanted said. So by your thinking - God is not aloud to do this any more.

You say I am free to reject this and what scripture says to us then you post a scripture that is talking about a group and not the whole and make it as written in stone about every one.

Have a blessed day
Jim

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

YOU asked and I will be glad to answer. I only ask that when you reply, please do so in a courteouse, Christian manner.

You asked...........
"Reading much of this thread, maybe we should get them to edit redundant stuff like this out of the scriptures as it only leads to people wanting to hear God."

NO! Editing or removing anything would be rejecting the directions found in the Bible.

Deut. 4:2.........
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you neither shall ye take anything from it.......".

So the answer is not to remove or edit but to "rightly divide it" so that it can be properly understood.

As for the verses posted which are in question, the bottom line is to understand 1 Corn. 13:10................
"But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part sahll be done away with.".

Now then, what is it that was "IN PART"? In Part translates in the Greek as......"Temporary".

The Bible answers the Bible and in 1 Corinthians 13:8 we find these words....................
"Love never faileth, but whether there be prophrcies, they SHALL FAIL; wheter there be tongues, THET SHALL CEASE, whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away".

Now the question must be.....do we edit or remove these verses as well as those Mr. Drake proposed????
NO! We move forward in an attempt to learn what they mean.

In verse 10, "That which is perfect" in the original Greek is translated as "MATURE". It is neuter in the Greek and therefore refers to a "THING" and not a person. That can only mean then that the reference is to the Bible and NOT the coming of the Lord Jeus Christ.

Now that is the gramattical Greek and it can not be changed or explained away. It is what it is and it is then incombant upon us to understand it and not edit it.

So what does this all mean? Remember YOU asked.

During the early days of the Church, God gave His apostles revelations to do with the new dispensation of Grace that came through the Lord Jesus. Since "THAT WHICH IS PERFECT" there is then no reason for new revelations that are not already written in the Word of God.

Everything we need to know about God, eternity and things having to do with God and ourselves is recorded in our Bible IMO. Today the prophet is actually one who FORTtells what has already been FOREtold.

Now when we get to 1 Corinthians 14 we need to understand that the whole chapter is about the corrections to speaking in tongues. Paul is NOT praising the Corinthians, he is CORRECTING, and then teaching them. If the time is taken to study history it can be found that the gift of tongues was highly sought after in the Corinthian church. It was also a very dangereous gift.

The person who spoke in tongues was very likely to develop a certain amount of spiritual pride and that action would produce a kind of self-hypnotism through a deliberately induced hysteria which came forth in a synthetic, and false deluded speaking in tongues.

Therefore God directed Paul to correctly tell the church that if a believer speaks in a tongue there must be someone present to interpret what is being said. That means then that tongues MUST BE AN INTELLAGABLE LANGUAGE and not some kind on ranting or mumbling.

Major your bit about paul talking about tongues is ONLY DIRECTED to a service - church gathering - in the place where saints gather and did notin any way say, mean, claim anything else. Also is this not a topic we are to not speak about here ?

 

[Major]

Major Greetings,
I say this in Love so please take it this way. Why not allow KJ to speak for him self.
Second is that how can you sit there and say there is no need for apostloes and prophets.
A prophet is a person who God gives them something to say to others that He ( God ) wanted said. So by your thinking - God is not aloud to do this any more.

You say I am free to reject this and what scripture says to us then you post a scripture that is talking about a group and not the whole and make it as written in stone about every one.

Have a blessed day
Jim

I accept your comment in the spirit in which you gave it. I hope you will accept my answer in the same way.
He certainly can do that and I am sure that he will, however, is there some rule that says I can not post my feelings as well?

As for the comment on apostles and prophets, It was my hope that you understood what I posted from the Scriptures. It is the Scriptures from which I drew my thinking from. It is what I have been taught and what I accepted now for about 50 years. If you or anyone else does not agree that is perfectly fine with me.

I will state it clearly again that the apostles had completed their mission of laying the foundation of the Church and the doctrine was inscripturated. God's Word is complete and no new revelation is needed. While the Lord does speak to us today he does not give any new revelation or doctrine since it has been delivered and completed.

In 1 Cor. 15 Paul describes the gospel and concentrates on the resurrection and the sequence of his appearing during the 40 day period after the resurrection.Vs.5 “And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: then by over 500.” Vs.7 “Then he was seen by James then by all the apostles.”

After the resurrection the “twelve”, is a number used to Identify the apostles originally with Jesus. This does not necessarily mean their were 12 only gathered to see him. It certainly did not include Matthias with the 12, although the apostles picked him after Jesus ascended.

Their is no account of a special appearance to him or anyone else as was with Paul only. The term 12 identified them as the group number that began with John and saw the resurrection. But from the group of 500 he appeared to, there were apostles among them as well as in vs.7 Then the apostles all.

Other requirements were a part of this first qualification of being with Jesus from the time of John and a witness to the resurrection. An apostle must have been taught divine truth by Jesus personally (Galatians1:1,12; 1Corinthians15:3).

I made the comment to no one in particular, person or group and there is no reason for you to assume such a thought. It just MY understanding and a teaching moment and if you do not agree all you need to do is say "I do not agree".