How The Devil/satan Deceiveth The Whole World

Bro.tan

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1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Please explain how the law is not "every jot and tittle" AND "all things written in the book of the law"

I like that verse, only I do not desire to be a teacher at all. Like I say...I teach the uncut word of God. I can't explain anything to you after you quoted 1 Tim 1:7...and turned on me the last time, are you serious.
 
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I like that verse, only I do not desire to be a teacher at all. Like I say...I teach the uncut word of God. I can't explain anything to you after you quoted 1 Tim 1:7...and turned on me the last time, are you serious.
Well please try... and explain how "part" of the law was nailed on the Cross and "part" of it was not?

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Now how can "part" of the law be nailed to the Cross? No He fulfilled every jot and tittle or none of it!
 

Bro.tan

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Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Now how can "part" of the law be nailed to the Cross? No He fulfilled every jot and tittle or none of it!

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

I like that verse
 

Bro.tan

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Well please try... and explain how "part" of the law was nailed on the Cross and "part" of it was not?

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Now how can "part" of the law be nailed to the Cross? No He fulfilled every jot and tittle or none of it!

The law that was nail to the cross, is a law that was added, its not the law Jesus is talking about in Mt 5:18
 
Sep 2, 2013
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The law that was nail to the cross, is a law that was added, its not the law Jesus is talking about in Mt 5:18
"a law that was added" so Jesus did not know all the Law? what part was hidden from Him?

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
 
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So then He could have only been speaking of what was delivered to Moses on the Mount? According to your doctrine?

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
 
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No one who teaches the law can stand a true biblical test of their doctrines. God has caught them in their own deceptions.:)
 
This post is 100% pure truth. All the prophets, Jesus and the Apostles attend church on the Sabbath day, the seventh day of the week (Saturday). That's the door Jesus spoke about. Jesus said in John 10: 1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. Sunday is not the door of the Lord Jesus the Christ.

And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read (Luke 4:14-16)

Jesus custom was the Sabbath day, your custom is the first day (Sunday). Two different spirits two different days. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (Hebrew 13:8)
Jesus had many customs you do not follow

Customs are traditions of men and are not binding in any way...
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Pure truth. I teach the uncut word of God. Recorded History and Bible go hand in hand.
I do not use the red X. I prefer to speak eye to eye.

Your comment that you speak the truth bro.tan is simply not true. I know that you think you are but your theology is only truth to YOU my friend.

I do agree that Recorded history and The Bible go hand in hand, but your idea of Biblical truth and mine are very different.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Sunday doctrine do not teach the fear of the lord, brothers and sisters, so less learns from these recorded History lessons why. Now here’s your chance to come into the light. (1Peter:2:9) "that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:" Open your eyes sisters and brothers and see. Let no man deceive you. (Rev12:9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Satan through man (Religious Teaching) has deceived the whole world.

The sun was the main god of the heathen even back as far as ancient Babylon. Since they worshiped the sun on Sunday, the compromising church leaders could see that if they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, it would accomplish several things. Number one - it would separate them from the Jews who were hated by many of the Romans and who, along with Jesus, (Luke 4:16), had been worshiping on Saturday from the beginning (and still do today). Number two - it would make it much easier for the pagans to come into the church if the Christians met on the same day that the pagan world did.
It worked well. Pagans flocked in by the thousands. Satan's plan of compromise was doing its baleful work. The change was attempted gradually but many of the true hearted, loyal Christians were alarmed. They came to the leaders and wanted to know why they had dared tamper with the law of Almighty God! The church leaders knew this would happen - and they had an answer ready. It's a masterpiece. If a person doesn't know the bible well it sounds good. The people were told that they were worshiping on Sunday now because Jesus rose from the dead on that day. There's not even one verse in the Bible that tells us to do this, but that's what they were told. Isn't it amazing! Maybe you've even heard that yourself! When Emperor Constantine became a Christian, Christianity became the state religion you remember. As thousands of sun-worshipers flocked into the church, it wasn't long before they had a dominating influence. Most of his top officials had been sun-worshipers. Because the Roman government was getting shaky, Constantine consulted with his aides and with the church officials in Rome. "What shall we do? How can we unite and stabilize the government?" The counsel of the church leaders was timely. "Pass a Sunday law. Force everyone to cease work and honor Sunday." That was it! It would satisfy the sun-worshiping pagans, and unite pagans, Christians, and the Roman Empire as never before. The year is 321 A.D. Constantine, yielding to the suggestion of church leaders passes the first Sunday law! Here it is, straight out of the record: "Let all the judges and town people, and the occupation of all trades rest on the venerable day of the sun" Edict of March 7, 321 A.D. Corpus Juris Civilis Cod., lib. 3, tit. 12, Lex. 3.

Jesus said in (Mat.7:21) "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven". For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say"? He told the world plainly: In (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) "But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God".
My o my! I am having a real problem seeing you distort the Word of God so ruthlessly bro. tan. so as to support you heretical theologies.

Bro.tan............the real problem here is that you simply do not understand the grace of God. I mean, look at the things you are saying and then contemplate the root of them and they all come down to your inability to grasp GRACE. You teach and tell us that we MUST keep the law of God to be saved. But the Old Testament system of Law required keeping the Sabbath as part of the overall moral, legal, and sacrificial system by which the Jewish people satisfied God’s requirements for behavior, government, and forgiveness of sins.

The Sabbath was part of the Law in that sense. In order to "remain" in favor with God, you had to also keep the Sabbath. If it was not kept, then the person was in sin and would often be punished (Ezekiel 18:4; Rom. 6:23; Deut. 13:1-9; Num. 35:31; Lev. 20:2,)

But with Jesus’ atonement, we are no longer required to keep the Law. We are not under Law, but grace (Rom. 6:14-15). The Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus. He is our rest. We are not under obligation, by Law, to keep it and this goes for the Sabbath as well. It is not a requirement that we keep the Sabbath. If it were, then we would still be under the Law, but we are not. WE ARE UNDER GRACE.

The New Testament has more evidence than is needed that the seventh day Sabbath is no longer a requirement.
  • Rom. 14:5-6, ......."One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God."
The entire section of Rom. 14:1-12 is worth careful study. Nevertheless, the instructions here are that individuals must be convinced in their own minds about which day they observe for the Lord. If the seventh day Sabbath were a requirement, then the choice would not be man's, but God’s.
  • Col. 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."
Notice here that time sequence mentioned. A festival is yearly. A new moon is monthly. A Sabbath is weekly. No one is to judge in regard to this. The Sabbath is defined as a shadow, the reality is Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath.
  • Acts 20:7, "And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight."
The first day of the week is Sunday and this is the day the people gathered. This passage can easily be seen as the church meeting on Sunday. It has two important church functions within it: breaking bread (communion) and a message (preaching). Additionally, Luke did not use the Jewish system of counting days: sundown to sundown. He used the Roman system: midnight to midnight. This is a subtle point that shows the Jewish Sabbath system was not the one utilized by Luke.
  • 1 Cor. 16:1-2, "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. 2 On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come."
Notice here that Paul is directing the churches to meet on the first day of each week and put money aside. It would seem that this is tithing. So, the instructed time for the church to meet is Sunday. Is this an official worship day set up by the church? You decide.

Your whole premise is flawed bother because it simple does not apply. You are arguing the Doctrine of the 7th Day Adventist when actually there is no argument at all. IF you want to worship on Saturday the Sabbath........then by all means do it!

But there is no need to try and convince the rest of us when there is nothing that would compel anyone to do so or Scriptures that would mandate it. You simply need to grasp what GRACE is my friend.

The truth is that we can worship the Lord on ANY day of the week and EVERY day of the week and still be perfectly Biblically sound!
 

Bro.tan

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My o my! I am having a real problem seeing you distort the Word of God so ruthlessly bro. tan. so as to support you heretical theologies.

Bro.tan............the real problem here is that you simply do not understand the grace of God. I mean, look at the things you are saying and then contemplate the root of them and they all come down to your inability to grasp GRACE. You teach and tell us that we MUST keep the law of God to be saved. But the Old Testament system of Law required keeping the Sabbath as part of the overall moral, legal, and sacrificial system by which the Jewish people satisfied God’s requirements for behavior, government, and forgiveness of sins.

The Sabbath was part of the Law in that sense. In order to "remain" in favor with God, you had to also keep the Sabbath. If it was not kept, then the person was in sin and would often be punished (Ezekiel 18:4; Rom. 6:23; Deut. 13:1-9; Num. 35:31; Lev. 20:2,)

But with Jesus’ atonement, we are no longer required to keep the Law. We are not under Law, but grace (Rom. 6:14-15). The Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus. He is our rest. We are not under obligation, by Law, to keep it and this goes for the Sabbath as well. It is not a requirement that we keep the Sabbath. If it were, then we would still be under the Law, but we are not. WE ARE UNDER GRACE.

The New Testament has more evidence than is needed that the seventh day Sabbath is no longer a requirement.
  • Rom. 14:5-6, ......."One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God."
The entire section of Rom. 14:1-12 is worth careful study. Nevertheless, the instructions here are that individuals must be convinced in their own minds about which day they observe for the Lord. If the seventh day Sabbath were a requirement, then the choice would not be man's, but God’s.
  • Col. 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."
Notice here that time sequence mentioned. A festival is yearly. A new moon is monthly. A Sabbath is weekly. No one is to judge in regard to this. The Sabbath is defined as a shadow, the reality is Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath.
  • Acts 20:7, "And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight."
The first day of the week is Sunday and this is the day the people gathered. This passage can easily be seen as the church meeting on Sunday. It has two important church functions within it: breaking bread (communion) and a message (preaching). Additionally, Luke did not use the Jewish system of counting days: sundown to sundown. He used the Roman system: midnight to midnight. This is a subtle point that shows the Jewish Sabbath system was not the one utilized by Luke.
  • 1 Cor. 16:1-2, "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. 2 On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come."
Notice here that Paul is directing the churches to meet on the first day of each week and put money aside. It would seem that this is tithing. So, the instructed time for the church to meet is Sunday. Is this an official worship day set up by the church? You decide.

Your whole premise is flawed bother because it simple does not apply. You are arguing the Doctrine of the 7th Day Adventist when actually there is no argument at all. IF you want to worship on Saturday the Sabbath........then by all means do it!

But there is no need to try and convince the rest of us when there is nothing that would compel anyone to do so or Scriptures that would mandate it. You simply need to grasp what GRACE is my friend.

The truth is that we can worship the Lord on ANY day of the week and EVERY day of the week and still be perfectly Biblically sound!

Amazing that you quote Col. 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

How you can quote that verse and you keep no laws, no Sabbath days what so ever, no High days which refers to the new moon, Paul is talking about. Sunday has nothing to do with that verse, that verse is for people like me, who do all those things with belongs to Christ. Now you can stroll up to verse 8...now that verse fits you well... Lets read it...2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Yep, like Easter, which is coming up, Sunday worship, Christmas, etc. Got nothing to do with Christ.
 

Bro.tan

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Lets continue...


The Christians who would not compromise and dishonor God found themselves in a dilemma. Satan had worked things around so that you were forced to honor the pagan "day of the sun" or pay the penalty. Even after the Emperor's Sunday law, many Christians continued to honor and keep holy the seventh-day Sabbath that their Saviour had kept. God knew what was going on and had predicted that the man of sin would "think to change times and laws." Satan was about to pull off a world-wide hoax. Bibles were forbidden by the priests. As the years went by, the new generations (without Bibles) would forget all about the Sabbath of the Lord. Not only that - from time to time, great church councils were held. In nearly every one, the Sabbath which God had given as a memorial of His creation of the world was pressed down and Sunday was exalted. The pagan festival finally came to be regarded as the "Lord's day" (by Pope Sylvester, 314-337 A.D.) and the church leaders pronounced the Bible Sabbath a relic of the Jews, and those who honored it, in obedience to the fourth commandment of God, were pronounced to be "accursed." To rip out the commandment right in the center, put in Sun- day worship as a counterfeit, take the Bibles away, and command the whole world to accept it - this was the king of all swindles! You see, Satan hates the fourth commandment more than all others because it is the only one that tells who God really is - the Creator of "Heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is." Exodus 20:11. You could worship any god and keep the other nine (not kill, steal, etc.) but to keep the fourth commandment you must worship the Creator of the Universe Who Himself rested on the seventh day and commanded His people to do the same - in a love relationship with Himself. As the centuries went by, the people, with no Bibles forgot about God's Sabbath, and Sunday worship became firmly established. Many even today are ignorant on the subject. The Waldenses, which I have mentioned, and some other groups through the dark ages did secretly have Bibles, and many did keep the Bible Sabbath on Saturday like Jesus did - all down through history.

But they were treated as outlaws. Whenever they were caught they were tortured to death. Their mangled corpses show the world the tactics that the beast has always used - force. Of God's faithful in the last days it says, "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Revelation 14:12.
In modern times, leaders who know what they are talking about will admit that men changed the Sabbath and not God. Look at these startling statements from Protestant leaders:

Methodist - "The reason we observe the first day instead of the seventh is based on no positive command. One will search the Scriptures in vain for authority for changing from the seventh day to the first." Clovis G. Chappell, Ten Rules For Living. pg. 61


Baptist - Harold Lindsell, former editor of Christianity Today. said, "There is nothing in Scripture that requires us to keep Sunday rather than Saturday as a holy day." Christianity Today, November 5, 1976.

Episcopal - "The Bible commandment says on the seventh day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday." Philip Carrington, Toronto Daily Star, October 26, 1949. Our Catholic friends know how the change came about. They say, "We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea, transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." The Convert's Catechism of

Catholic Doctrine, Third edition, pg. 50. The Catholic Press said, "Sunday is a Catholic institution, and its claims to observation can be defended only on Catholic principles ... From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.

God speaks of the seventh day 126 times in the Old Testament and 62 times in the New. The first day of the week is mentioned only eight times in the New Testament. A Catholic priest offered $1000 to anyone who could find one Bible verse to indicate that Sunday is now holy and should be observed instead of the seventh day.

No one responded. For an amazing glimpse of the eight Bible texts which mention the first day of the week, see Appendix 10. It says that the beast (little horn power) would "think to change times and laws." Daniel 7:25.

The second commandment was ripped out and images were brought in. The fourth commandment is the only one that deals with time. Look at this shocking announcement: "The Pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." "The Pope has authority and has often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap.

Keep in mind that our God is kind and fair. Those who are keeping Sunday and breaking God's fourth commandment ignorantly are not under condemnation. It's only those who know what God commands and willfully disobey who are committing sin. God's enemy knows that to break one of God's commandments is a sin which hurts our Saviour and robs us of eternal life with Him if not repented of.
 
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Do you think our salvation depends on perfectly following all the laws in Leviticus or not?
Yes, except for the laws that was nail to the cross, which was the animal sacrificial laws and the priesthood laws.
Well, now I just have a lot of questions about your beliefs! I met a group of people once who also believed the same thing, and I regret that I never got to ask them these questions:

Do you refer to yourself as a Christian? Or would you think of yourself as a Jew who recognizes Christ as your high priest?

When you read the Torah, how do you decide how you will interpret the various laws in the context of modern living?

What are your thoughts on the Talmud?

Where do you stand on circumcision, food restrictions, clothing regulations, facial hair regulations?

Who is responsible for administering the consequences for law-breakers (i.e., stonings, etc.)?
 
Jun 22, 2013
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Keep in mind that our God is kind and fair. Those who are keeping Sunday and breaking God's fourth commandment ignorantly are not under condemnation. It's only those who know what God commands and willfully disobey who are committing sin. God's enemy knows that to break one of God's commandments is a sin which hurts our Saviour and robs us of eternal life with Him if not repented of.
Hmm, I have a few questions about this.

If that were true, wouldn't it be better to remain ignorant of the commandments, so you can never be held responsible for breaking them? If people are unaware of those commandments, aren't you putting them at risk of "willingly sinning" simply by making them aware? Wouldn't it be better for them if you simply left them to continue "breaking God's fourth commandment ignorantly" since they are "not under condemnation"?

You've said before that my "salvation depends" on correctly understanding these things, but I believe I'm following the fourth commandment completely by finding my rest in Christ. Actually, in my understanding of the fourth commandment, I would be willfully sinning by limiting that rest to a ritualistic practice on one single day each week. So by your understanding of how condemnation and salvation works, wouldn't I simply be best to continue as I am, since it's not possible for me to be "willfully sinning" as I don't see how your interpretation of the fourth commandment could possibly be correct?

What are your thoughts on the idea that the "law" is "written on our hearts," and therefore all are responsible for all of it?

How would you respond to the fact that the ancient Hebrews had to offer sacrifice for unintentional sin (i.e., Leviticus 4, 5:14-19 - especially verse 17 here).

14 The Lord said to Moses: 15 “When anyone is unfaithful to the Lord by sinning unintentionally in regard to any of the Lord’s holy things, they are to bring to the Lord as a penalty a ram from the flock, one without defect and of the proper value in silver, according to the sanctuary shekel. It is a guilt offering. 16 They must make restitution for what they have failed to do in regard to the holy things, pay an additional penalty of a fifth of its value and give it all to the priest. The priest will make atonement for them with the ram as a guilt offering, and they will be forgiven.

17 “If anyone sins and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands, even though they do not know it,they are guilty and will be held responsible. 18 They are to bring to the priest as a guilt offering a ram from the flock, one without defect and of the proper value. In this way the priest will make atonement for them for the wrong they have committed unintentionally, and they will be forgiven. 19 It is a guilt offering; they have been guilty of wrongdoing against the Lord.”
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Amazing that you quote Col. 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

How you can quote that verse and you keep no laws, no Sabbath days what so ever, no High days which refers to the new moon, Paul is talking about. Sunday has nothing to do with that verse, that verse is for people like me, who do all those things with belongs to Christ. Now you can stroll up to verse 8...now that verse fits you well... Lets read it...2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Yep, like Easter, which is coming up, Sunday worship, Christmas, etc. Got nothing to do with Christ.
I used Colossians 2:16-17 because I understand it and accept it exactly for what it says, not for something I want it to say.

It say that we are not to sit in judgment or take to task or decide for others, while at the same time criticizing and condemning others who reject your opinions. Paul was encouraging the Colossians NOT to be enslaved by legalism, ritualism, rites, ceremonies and laws.

That is what you are trying to do. Bro.tan......I need to ask you, are you a Christian? If you say yes, then please tell me WHY you say that?

The Mosiac system had value, sat forth mans need for pardon, purity and holiness, setting forth God's provision of a great high priest, an atonement and fellowship with God. Now.......why look at the shadow of those things when we can look to the Lord Jesus Christ????

Christ is the author and finisher of our salvation. Ceremonies, rites, laws are shadows that have been superceeded by Christ and those shadows are to be abandoned!! Because Christ has come we no longer need the symbols of His coming......we have in fact the real thing!!!!!

Now on a personal note. YOU my friend are not only very wrong, but you are in fact dangerous. You are mixing law with grace and it is obvious that you have absolutely no understanding of either one.

Now......for those who read our conversations and posting but do not join in, allow me to say this to you.
JESUS IS ALL WE NEED!!! Keeping the law of God in order to be saved or stay saved as Bro. tan is insisting is totally and Biblically wrong!!! The Law was never made to save man and in fact the Law never saved one single person in all of history!!!

We are saved by GRACE through FAITH and that not of our selves lest we brag about it.