II Peter 2:1

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There are plenty of Christians who know that a false prophet is dangerous but how many accept that a false teacher is, according to God, equal in their destructiveness. Putting someone in charge in the church that doesn't teach sound doctrine is destructive in so many ways but is often written off as immaturity in the Scriptures and we will just let God deal with them for the sake of peacefulness. Bologna! We are to confront such matters and not allow the wolves to roam among the sheep.

II Peter 2:1 (NASB) - "But false prophets (G5578: Pretend foreteller; imposter) also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers (G5572: Propagator of erroneous Christian doctrine) among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."

II Peter 2:1 (KJV) - "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
 
Nov 18, 2020
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There are plenty of Christians who know that a false prophet is dangerous but how many accept that a false teacher is, according to God, equal in their destructiveness. Putting someone in charge in the church that doesn't teach sound doctrine is destructive in so many ways but is often written off as immaturity in the Scriptures and we will just let God deal with them for the sake of peacefulness. Bologna! We are to confront such matters and not allow the wolves to roam among the sheep.

II Peter 2:1 (NASB) - "But false prophets (G5578: Pretend foreteller; imposter) also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers (G5572: Propagator of erroneous Christian doctrine) among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."

II Peter 2:1 (KJV) - "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
false teachers bring into the local church damnable heresies, such as we have a divine right to health, as many have allowed loved ones die while confessing that that were not even really sick!
 
false teachers bring into the local church damnable heresies, such as we have a divine right to health, as many have allowed loved ones die while confessing that that were not even really sick!
Assigning a random newborn of the faith to teaching positions and those self-anointed are hugely problematic in the church today. If you want to know why the numbers are declining in the church buildings then don't scratch your head about it, ask someone like myself why I do not attend. One person does not represent the masses but if mass numbers are departing the organization for its no longer being an organism the problem is not with those who are leaving but those who cast doubt on our faith for not being a part of the establishment.
 
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A problem being that many define false teachers and false prophets as anyone who holds a view of the meaning of scripture differs from their own.

If I feel the need to know for myself and for those around me, I look at the view of who Christ is and the meaning and means of salvation.

Beyond that I may try to understand the reasoning behind the views of others and understanding of their position without being to quick to condemn.

It is surprising how often someone will note some difference that means a great something to them, and make that a litmus test to judge others.
 
A problem being that many define false teachers and false prophets as anyone who holds a view of the meaning of scripture differs from their own.

If I feel the need to know for myself and for those around me, I look at the view of who Christ is and the meaning and means of salvation.

Beyond that I may try to understand the reasoning behind the views of others and understanding of their position without being to quick to condemn.

It is surprising how often someone will note some difference that means a great something to them, and make that a litmus test to judge others.
I see what you are saying. Lots of churches have split for that reason alone. The only standard is God's standard and He told us exactly what that is in His Word. I do not have any opinion outside of what God says and the only time I will shut someone down or give them the "IGNORE" is if they are saying that something is true that God doesn't say is true or sometimes God declares as an outright fallacy. Just because someone is on a Christian site I don't swallow their doctrine. The Bereans were praised by God for checking every word Paul preached and I will check anyone that says something they can't back with Scripture - word for word.
 

bobinfaith

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False preachers, teachers and prophets are all wolves in sheeps clothing and dangerous to God's church.

This saddens me and it should. But I choose God's church and choose to fight.

I want to prayerfully offer a Word of encouragement for of all of us, not a scolding or judgment to those who justify not wanting to go to church.

Beginning with my wife and I. When we were much younger in our marriage, we were proclaimed Christians, but didn't want to go to church because we partied the night before, or in some cases two nights before and didn't want to pretend to worship, or feel convicted because we were still nursing our hangovers.

This is exactly what the evil one wants us to do and he wins.

The Christian church is to keep our guards up against Satan and his demons roaming, and I have personally heard the testimonies and seen the witness of churches teaching sound Biblical doctrine and holding the Pastor accountable while upholding him in prayer and support.

We can express constructive findings of false teachings and heresy in the church. But do we then follow with solutions?

This too is exactly what the evil one wants us and not want us to do.

Christians are a threat to that punk the devil, and as long as we withdraw from being a full disciple to a part time believer then we are no longer a worry to Satan.

Those who are seasoned Christians, refer to your knowledge and wisdom and point out in the Scriptures how God always delivers those who believe in Him.
Ask God to lead you to a disciplined Pastor with hard knocks experience. Arrange to meet with him and pose your hard questions before God leads you to the church to serve.

Be careful! Satan wants to expose your pessimism of Christ to non, doubtful and new believers and will send the wrong message. Your walk with Christ allows you to tell your story of what He has done for you enabling you to do for others. They need that hope as they go forth in their new found faith in God.

God knows we will face sufferings in our faith but He is a forward thinking God and will grow us and go forward as well, so as we choose to follow Him.

Let me pose a question. Are we qualified to walk away from worshiping God in His church, just because our disappointing experiences merit so?

You and I have been blessed with abilities and people in the church need our help as an answer to prayer from God. We are all needed in the church and each of us has an offering to give.

Sure, the governance of the church we attend may have some knucklehead issues. But that's not our job to tell God how He should Will His church. That's His job.

If the pastor is grossly misleading, teaching erroneous and falsely the church God called Him, He will expose His servant, discipline him or have him step down. That's God's job.

May God bless and protect His church.
 
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False preachers, teachers and prophets are all wolves in sheeps clothing and dangerous to God's church.

This saddens me and it should. But I choose God's church and choose to fight.

I want to prayerfully offer a Word of encouragement for of all of us, not a scolding or judgment to those who justify not wanting to go to church.

Beginning with my wife and I. When we were much younger in our marriage, we were proclaimed Christians, but didn't want to go to church because we partied the night before, or in some cases two nights before and didn't want to pretend to worship, or feel convicted because we were still nursing our hangovers.

This is exactly what the evil one wants us to do and he wins.

The Christian church is to keep our guards up against Satan and his demons roaming, and I have personally heard the testimonies and seen the witness of churches teaching sound Biblical doctrine and holding the Pastor accountable while upholding him in prayer and support.

We can express constructive findings of false teachings and heresy in the church. But do we then follow with solutions?

This too is exactly what the evil one wants us and not want us to do.

Christians are a threat to that punk the devil, and as long as we withdraw from being a full disciple to a part time believer then we are no longer a worry to Satan.

Those who are seasoned Christians, refer to your knowledge and wisdom and point out in the Scriptures how God always delivers those who believe in Him.
Ask God to lead you to a disciplined Pastor with hard knocks experience. Arrange to meet with him and pose your hard questions before God leads you to the church to serve.

Be careful! Satan wants to expose your pessimism of Christ to non, doubtful and new believers and will send the wrong message. Your walk with Christ allows you to tell your story of what He has done for you enabling you to do for others. They need that hope as they go forth in their new found faith in God.

God knows we will face sufferings in our faith but He is a forward thinking God and will grow us and go forward as well, so as we choose to follow Him.

Let me pose a question. Are we qualified to walk away from worshiping God in His church, just because our disappointing experiences merit so?

You and I have been blessed with abilities and people in the church need our help as an answer to prayer from God. We are all needed in the church and each of us has an offering to give.

Sure, the governance of the church we attend may have some knucklehead issues. But that's not our job to tell God how He should Will His church. That's His job.

If the pastor is grossly misleading, teaching erroneous and falsely the church God called Him, He will expose his servant, discipline him or have him step down. That's God's job.

May God bless and protect His church.
Thank you, Pastor Bob, I always appreciate your words, especially when they make my toes hurt. We do lead a pure life and do work for God but, yes, we are outside the church meeting. He offers us opportunities to do things for the community and less-fortunate. Having said all of that you are right that we should seek a church meeting to give and receive talents. It is just hard to do right now because of the fresh memories of the experiences of the past.

The problem I have had in the past is that the salvation message is only part of the Bible. Just as a baby is only born once and then must be nourished for growth we haven't found a good church building to attend that puts a focus on nourishing the flock. I have heard of someone being saved by reading Joel. Who gets saved reading Joel? LOL God can convict anyone, anytime, and using any Scripture from the Bible.

I will be praying about this and you are right. The Bible says to not forsake the assembly and I am not on the winning side in this argument. It's just that I want to be proved wrong when I walk through the doors again and don't know how I will respond. I do love Jesus very much and His Word.
 

bobinfaith

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Thank you, Pastor Bob, I always appreciate your words, especially when they make my toes hurt. We do lead a pure life and do work for God but, yes, we are outside the church meeting. He offers us opportunities to do things for the community and less-fortunate. Having said all of that you are right that we should seek a church meeting to give and receive talents. It is just hard to do right now because of the fresh memories of the experiences of the past.

The problem I have had in the past is that the salvation message is only part of the Bible. Just as a baby is only born once and then must be nourished for growth we haven't found a good church building to attend that puts a focus on nourishing the flock. I have heard of someone being saved by reading Joel. Who gets saved reading Joel? LOL God can convict anyone, anytime, and using any Scripture from the Bible.

I will be praying about this and you are right. The Bible says to not forsake the assembly and I am not on the winning side in this argument. It's just that I want to be proved wrong when I walk through the doors again and don't know how I will respond. I do love Jesus very much and His Word.

Hey Nazarene Servant;

Like I shared this was not targeted for any one person, or to scold or judge. If I can encourage all of us, take your time, God's time.

Should you and your family search for a church, brother, and when you do, make an appointment to speak to the Pastor. He has a responsibility to be prepared to answer you and your constructive questions.

Afterall, you and I need to seek where God wants us to worship Him. We are the priests of our families and are accountable as we lead our loved ones, amen?

I have been approached when visitors were seeking a church and after meeting with them, some chose to move on. But the ones who stayed turned out to be God led and a blessing to others.

I'll keep you in my prayers and here at Christian Forum Site, and thank you for your prayers for me as well.

Your brother in Christ Jesus,
 
Hey Nazarene Servant;

Like I shared this was not targeted for any one person, or to scold or judge. If I can encourage all of us, take your time, God's time.

Should you and your family search for a church, brother, and when you do, make an appointment to speak to the Pastor. He has a responsibility to be prepared to answer you and your constructive questions.

Afterall, you and I need to seek where God wants us to worship Him. We are the priests of our families and are accountable as we lead our loved ones, amen?

I have been approached when visitors were seeking a church and after meeting with them, some chose to move on. But the ones who stayed turned out to be God led and a blessing to others.

I'll keep you in my prayers and here at Christian Forum Site, and thank you for your prayers for me as well.

Your brother in Christ Jesus,
I appreciate you, brother, and will be praying for you. I appreciate your prayers very much.
 
Nov 18, 2020
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Macomb Michigan
A problem being that many define false teachers and false prophets as anyone who holds a view of the meaning of scripture differs from their own.

If I feel the need to know for myself and for those around me, I look at the view of who Christ is and the meaning and means of salvation.

Beyond that I may try to understand the reasoning behind the views of others and understanding of their position without being to quick to condemn.

It is surprising how often someone will note some difference that means a great something to them, and make that a litmus test to judge others.
Agree tht we do not want to get into labeling others who have differences in theology on disputable areas, but also that we must point out those who clearly are teaching heresy among us!
 
Nov 18, 2020
331
365
63
60
Macomb Michigan
I see what you are saying. Lots of churches have split for that reason alone. The only standard is God's standard and He told us exactly what that is in His Word. I do not have any opinion outside of what God says and the only time I will shut someone down or give them the "IGNORE" is if they are saying that something is true that God doesn't say is true or sometimes God declares as an outright fallacy. Just because someone is on a Christian site I don't swallow their doctrine. The Bereans were praised by God for checking every word Paul preached and I will check anyone that says something they can't back with Scripture - word for word.
The big problem today is that there is indeed heresies being allowed to foster and grow with local churches, all under the guise of "do not judge, and unity" Some big ones are things such as word of faith, name it and claim it!
 
Sep 3, 2009
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There are plenty of Christians who know that a false prophet is dangerous but how many accept that a false teacher is, according to God, equal in their destructiveness. Putting someone in charge in the church that doesn't teach sound doctrine is destructive in so many ways but is often written off as immaturity in the Scriptures and we will just let God deal with them for the sake of peacefulness. Bologna! We are to confront such matters and not allow the wolves to roam among the sheep.

II Peter 2:1 (NASB) - "But false prophets (G5578: Pretend foreteller; imposter) also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers (G5572: Propagator of erroneous Christian doctrine) among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."

II Peter 2:1 (KJV) - "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."

It should be no surprise that those who are false prophets are those you would never imagine to actually be a false prophet. A bad pastor will actually train his flock through persuasive, repetitive, mind-numbing teaching that subtly makes the point that he could never actually be an issue for the church.

One of the major problems I see when it comes to disciplining a pastor is that many in the church simply refuse to believe that their pastor is capable of sin or of disqualifying himself from the pastorate. Before the evidence is even presented they have already decided it is impossible for their pastor to actually be the problem.

The Bible warns Christians about false teachers, false prophets, and wolves masquerading in sheep’s clothing because they actually exist.

Just recently, I had a woman get very angry at "ME" because I quoted what her favorite teacher said......Joyce Myers.
(The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, by Joyce Meyer, Tulsa: Harrison House 1991, chapter 4, pg 35).

"During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go because of our sin. He paid the price there . . . no plan was too extreme . . . Jesus paid on the cross and in hell".

The Bible says in Psalms 16:10 that.......
"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

Now instead of being upset with what Mrs. Myers actually said......she was angry at me for exposing what she actually said. This is the world thought in the world we live in today but may I say to all that this is not new for we read in 1 Timothy 4:1.......
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils".
 
There is a lot of that today. It is very important for a believer to know what God says from His own Word. It is my understanding that Jesus did go to Hell after His death on the Cross but He went to take the keys of death and dispatch with Abraham's Bosom (Hades).

Acts 2:24 - "But God raised Him from the dead, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power."

Ephesians 4:9 - "(Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?"

Revelation 1:18 - "and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades."

What say you, my esteemed brother in Christ?
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Agree tht we do not want to get into labeling others who have differences in theology on disputable areas, but also that we must point out those who clearly are teaching heresy among us!

I am not so sure I agree with that brother.

It is a fact that good, honest Christians sometimes disagree about various issues.

However there is a core of "Essential Bible Doctrines" that must be accepted in order for two to walk in fellowship.

When "Man made theologies/traditions" replace the Bible essentials then a decision must be made as to whether we can fellowship one with another.
I do not mean that we can not associate as neighbors or friends, but that is a far cry from Christian worship and Christian fellowship.

This is the question we need to be able to answer:
Can you worship and serve Christ alongside another Christian – in full, brotherly camaraderie – when you disagree with him/her on a point of Bible doctrine.

Example, can you sit and worship sitting beside a person who tells you that in order to be saved, " you must speak in tongues"?
Example, can you sit and worship sitting beside a person who tells you that Mary is the co-redeemer of humanity?
Example, can you sit and worship sitting beside a person who tells you that Jesus is just a good prophet?

I suggest that no truly born again believer can sit and worship the Creator of all things with those who accept Man Made theologies above the Bible doctrines of God.
 
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I am not so sure I agree with that brother.

It is a fact that good, honest Christians sometimes disagree about various issues.

However there is a core of "Essential Bible Doctrines" that must be accepted in order for two to walk in fellowship.

When "Man made theologies/traditions" replace the Bible essentials then a decision must be made as to whether we can fellowship one with another.
I do not mean that we can not associate as neighbors or friends, but that is a far cry from Christian worship and Christian fellowship.

This is the question we need to be able to answer:
Can you worship and serve Christ alongside another Christian – in full, brotherly camaraderie – when you disagree with him/her on a point of Bible doctrine.

Example, can you sit and worship sitting beside a person who tells you that in order to be saved, " you must speak in tongues"?
Example, can you sit and worship sitting beside a person who tells you that Mary is the co-redeemer of humanity?
Example, can you sit and worship sitting beside a person who tells you that Jesus is just a good prophet?

I suggest that no truly born again believer can sit and worship the Creator of all things with those who accept Man Made theologies above the Bible doctrines of God.
I agree completely with everything in that post. I just believe that Christ pervading of all things is a key element of the fullness of Christ. If there is a place He hasn't been or is restricted from within His creation then He has not conquered all. With that I will withdraw.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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There is a lot of that today. It is very important for a believer to know what God says from His own Word. It is my understanding that Jesus did go to Hell after His death on the Cross but He went to take the keys of death and dispatch with Abraham's Bosom (Hades).

Acts 2:24 - "But God raised Him from the dead, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power."

Ephesians 4:9 - "(Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?"

Revelation 1:18 - "and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades."

What say you, my esteemed brother in Christ?

Actually the Bible tells us the Jesus went to the "Paradise" compartment of Hades. That is where He told the thief on the cross that he would be after he died. "Today you will be with Me in Paradise".

The part of Torments where Mrs. Myers said Jesus went to to pay the penalty for our sin does not exist in the Bible. Jesus did not go to Torments.

Hades is divided by a "Gulf". One side is Torments where the lost souls of all eternity are torments in fire until judgment day.
Paradise is where the souls of the saints of the Old Test. were located. When Jesus went to the "lower oats of the earth" He descended to the Paradise side and when He ascended to heaven He took all of the souls there with Him to heaven.

Today, when a believer dies he goes immediately to heaven and there is now no souls in Paradise in Hades.

Allow me to prove all of that in Luke 16:22-31............
"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

Ephesians 4:8-9............
Therefore He says: When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”
Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?"

"Albert Barnes Bible Commentary" explains, and it is what I have believed for many years that.........
" When Christ ascended to heaven, he triumphed ever all his foes. It was a complete victory over the malice of the great enemy of God, and over those who had sought his life. But he did more. He rescued those who were the captives of Satan, and led them in triumph. Man was held by Satan as a prisoner. His chains were around him. Christ rescued the captive prisoner, and designed to make him a part of his triumphal procession into heaven, that thus the victory might be complete - triumphing not only over the great foe himself, but swelling his procession with the attending hosts of those who “had been” the captives of Satan, now rescued and redeemed."
 
Sep 3, 2009
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I agree completely with everything in that post. I just believe that Christ pervading of all things is a key element of the fullness of Christ. If there is a place He hasn't been or is restricted from within His creation then He has not conquered all. With that I will withdraw.

Ecumenicalism is not Biblical.

In Ecumenicalism, it is necessary to reduce Scriptural authority and Biblical Doctrine to opinions and preferences and for the sake of unity to ignore doctrinal differences. Any group, organization, or “church” that ignores Doctrine is NOT Biblical.
 
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