II Peter 2:1

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Actually the Bible tells us the Jesus went to the "Paradise" compartment of Hades. That is where He told the thief on the cross that he would be after he died. "Today you will be with Me in Paradise".

The part of Torments where Mrs. Myers said Jesus went to to pay the penalty for our sin does not exist in the Bible. Jesus did not go to Torments.

Hades is divided by a "Gulf". One side is Torments where the lost souls of all eternity are torments in fire until judgment day.
Paradise is where the souls of the saints of the Old Test. were located. When Jesus went to the "lower oats of the earth" He descended to the Paradise side and when He ascended to heaven He took all of the souls there with Him to heaven.

Today, when a believer dies he goes immediately to heaven and there is now no souls in Paradise in Hades.

Allow me to prove all of that in Luke 16:22-31............
"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

Ephesians 4:8-9............
Therefore He says: When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”
Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?"

"Albert Barnes Bible Commentary" explains, and it is what I have believed for many years that.........
" When Christ ascended to heaven, he triumphed ever all his foes. It was a complete victory over the malice of the great enemy of God, and over those who had sought his life. But he did more. He rescued those who were the captives of Satan, and led them in triumph. Man was held by Satan as a prisoner. His chains were around him. Christ rescued the captive prisoner, and designed to make him a part of his triumphal procession into heaven, that thus the victory might be complete - triumphing not only over the great foe himself, but swelling his procession with the attending hosts of those who “had been” the captives of Satan, now rescued and redeemed."
I agree with this 100%.
 
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Ecumenicalism is not Biblical.

In Ecumenicalism, it is necessary to reduce Scriptural authority and Biblical Doctrine to opinions and preferences and for the sake of unity to ignore doctrinal differences. Any group, organization, or “church” that ignores Doctrine is NOT Biblical.
I do not promote Ecumenicalism either. I think we are in agreement I must have just misstated my position because I can't find anything in your posts that I disagree with.
 
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Nov 18, 2020
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It should be no surprise that those who are false prophets are those you would never imagine to actually be a false prophet. A bad pastor will actually train his flock through persuasive, repetitive, mind-numbing teaching that subtly makes the point that he could never actually be an issue for the church.

One of the major problems I see when it comes to disciplining a pastor is that many in the church simply refuse to believe that their pastor is capable of sin or of disqualifying himself from the pastorate. Before the evidence is even presented they have already decided it is impossible for their pastor to actually be the problem.

The Bible warns Christians about false teachers, false prophets, and wolves masquerading in sheep’s clothing because they actually exist.

Just recently, I had a woman get very angry at "ME" because I quoted what her favorite teacher said......Joyce Myers.
(The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, by Joyce Meyer, Tulsa: Harrison House 1991, chapter 4, pg 35).

"During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go because of our sin. He paid the price there . . . no plan was too extreme . . . Jesus paid on the cross and in hell".

The Bible says in Psalms 16:10 that.......
"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

Now instead of being upset with what Mrs. Myers actually said......she was angry at me for exposing what she actually said. This is the world thought in the world we live in today but may I say to all that this is not new for we read in 1 Timothy 4:1.......
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils".
The mind set established by a Copeland or a Hinn is pretty much the same as done to tnhose in the JW and Mormons!
 
Nov 18, 2020
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I am not so sure I agree with that brother.

It is a fact that good, honest Christians sometimes disagree about various issues.

However there is a core of "Essential Bible Doctrines" that must be accepted in order for two to walk in fellowship.

When "Man made theologies/traditions" replace the Bible essentials then a decision must be made as to whether we can fellowship one with another.
I do not mean that we can not associate as neighbors or friends, but that is a far cry from Christian worship and Christian fellowship.

This is the question we need to be able to answer:
Can you worship and serve Christ alongside another Christian – in full, brotherly camaraderie – when you disagree with him/her on a point of Bible doctrine.

Example, can you sit and worship sitting beside a person who tells you that in order to be saved, " you must speak in tongues"?
Example, can you sit and worship sitting beside a person who tells you that Mary is the co-redeemer of humanity?
Example, can you sit and worship sitting beside a person who tells you that Jesus is just a good prophet?

I suggest that no truly born again believer can sit and worship the Creator of all things with those who accept Man Made theologies above the Bible doctrines of God.
I was just suggesting that we Christians must learn to disagree in a Christ like fashion, as it is not a heresy to hold to disputable positions with one another!
 
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Feb 10, 2015
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Agree tht we do not want to get into labeling others who have differences in theology on disputable areas, but also that we must point out those who clearly are teaching heresy among us!
As one who has been called a heretic, and the son of a physicist who was not accepted because he designed weapons of war, I can say that much is in what we accept as authority. Everyone says it is scripture, but what they mean is their understanding of scripture.
 
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As one who has been called a heretic, and the son of a physicist who was not accepted because he designed weapons of war, I can say that much is in what we accept as authority. Everyone says it is scripture, but what they mean is their understanding of scripture.
What got you labeled a heretic though?
 
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two scriptures we need to remember Isiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there[a] is no light in them. then here is the real problem 2 Timothy 4:3 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
may don't want the truth many want a feelgood message a name it claim it message
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
 
Feb 10, 2015
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Would say that contradicts a literal reading of the genesis account, but is not heresy! Do you hold that God created Adam and Eve still?
As far as contradicting literal reading, that is too involved for here. There are many objections given by Young Earth creationists. Many involve a very narrow understanding of what is literal, and involve applying that literalness way beyond the intent of scripture while ignoring the clues God has put in nature itself.

Yes God created Adam and Eve.

By the way...

I used the term Theistic Evolution because I believe that Evolution in general fits the available evidence best (and there are plausible interpretations of scripture that are compatible).

I could also note that I believe in agriculture and can talk about farms and farming and how they provide food for my table and still recognize that it is ultimately God that provided for me. Maybe I should say I believe in theistic agriculture!

There is also
theistic mathematics,
theistic chemistry,
theistic astronomy,
etc.

We are to examine the 'natural' world to find out about God:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened
Romans 1:18-21 (NASB)​

We need to approach nature as a student of God, which means both that we understand it is about God, AND that its purpose is to correct misunderstandings we may hold.

Although meant for other concepts, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 is a fair approximation of proper scientific study.
 
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