Indicators of Recent Creation or Cataclysm

I do not think you will get a lot of info on the discussion we are having. He spent most of his time explaing Genesis 6 and the depravity that led to the flood.

Also.....it was written in late 1880's so it is a hard read.
Yes, it is quite outdated but not too difficult to follow. The first few chapters seem to focus on Creation, the Interval (the 'gap') and the fall of satan and of man.

I'll have a look at it as there seem to be some interesting explanations.

Blessings!
 
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I would recommend "A matter of days" by Hugh Ross. He is a christian astro physicist.

Agree. I like the way he begins by surveying the contentious way the issue is often argued and noting that we as Christians ought to strive for more tolerant attitudes towards each other.

It seems to me that every time I have this convesation, some gets angry because I do not just accept their thesis without questions.
 
65 million years ago? Again, Who was there 65 million years ago to see a dinosour and tell them they were there? NO ONE.

We have dinos in scripture. You call it a hippo. but it does nto even come close to resembling a hippo.

We have dino and man walking side by side in a few sites.. So to say they NEVER were here together is not factual.

As for death. Adam died the moment he sinned (Spiritually) his body started to decay physically from that point on. and he died physically many years later.

life expectendy after the flood lowered greatly. there are scientific reasons for this. And if you look at them. It all comes together. That is why studying the flood and its affects has so dramatically changed many views on the age of the earth.

You have not answer why death, the penalty of sin. occurs before sin. there was no death before adam, the first death recorded was when God killed an animal or 2 to cloth Adam and Eve and cover their nakedness.

once again, in my view, the only reason to believe in an old earth is to support these theories that the earth needed time to grow to age and to get to the point where it could support life. and for evolutionary processes to take place.

If God created earth for man, a view held by many, Then God could create the earth and create it in a way where mankind can use it. This includes creating the stars so their light shines to earth the DAY they were created (since according to scripture the stars were created for that purpose)

Did God need to wait billions of years for the stars light to reach earth? He is God. Can speaks and it happens.. I believe in miracles. and I believe people who are trying to disprove God exists try to use this science to disprove God. Sadly when this all came out. CHristians started to try to match it to the bible. so old earth theology was created in an order to appease scientists and those questioning why science appears to contradict the word..

it really does not contradict the word.. Not at all. again, the flood answers prety much all the questions..



again. My view

Good points all but I just do not agree with all due respect and believe me, I have put in years of work on this as well as you and there is just no way that "hippo" means dinosaur! Now IF I am rooted in one train of belief that yes...that is what I make it mean.

And YES I did answer your question about death.

You said............
"We have dino and man walking side by side in a few sites".

That is catagorically in error. There is NO evidence of such a thing. There have been some people who have FAKED such a thing but everyone of them have been prove to be false.
 

bobinfaith

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Now I am not pushing the Old Earth thesis as I said I do not know. However, as long as I have worked on this, what I find from those of the Young Earth theology is always a about "IF's"! Young earth advocates create doubt by drawing attention to all the ifs in the methods such as "radioactive decay"......
"tree rings"...."frozen sediments" and so on. If radioactive decay is constant, if no material was gained or lost, if trees produce only one ring per year, and if sediments form only one light-dark or coarse-fine couplet per year, then the methods will work. But with so many ifs, how can there be any confidence that the science is not actually correct? Now please understand.....I have a University 2 miles away and I have had to deal with these kind of questions from students for 30 years. The answer can NOT be....just accept the Genesis story on faith. I tried that and it does not work in any way.
I agree with you, but one thing puzzles me, though: God created plants on the third day, but the sun, moon and stars on the 4th day. Since plants can't survive without sunlight, how could they survive if a day is a long period of time?

Hello Major and paidforinfull;

I'm joining this discussion late. After reading the posts to this thread, I wanted to share my experience to what you posted regarding the students at the university you dealt with, assuming it was close to where you pastored at church.

There was a class I took that studied the doctrine of creation. To me it was an opportunity for potential dialogue and debate between Christianity and science regarding old and new earth creationism. We had to be warned because debates in the past on this subject was brutal because of sharp disagreements.

The new or young earth closely supports the Biblical account of 6000 years and a 24 hour period. The old earth does not agree with the young earth's chronological order, but a logical structuring over a much longer period of time. Are both sides relying on assumptions, or faith?

Though I'm terrible at debates, in my learning view, science interpretation cannot prove the past nor be forced fact.

I debated on the new earth while the opposing students argued the old earth. Both sides presented good arguments and fortunately the discussion / debate was healthy and nobody got kicked out of seminary. lol!

My response to paidforinfull regarding the survival of the plant's process of growth. We have to remember during creation that Adam did not begin his life as a new born baby, thus, the same would go for a new plant.

My question is, whether the old or new creation, how would that impact my birthday?
lol!

God bless you both and your families.
 
Hello Major and paidforinfull;

My response to paidforinfull regarding the survival of the plant's process of growth. We have to remember during creation that Adam did not begin his life as a new born baby, thus, the same would go for a new plant.

My question is, whether the old or new creation, how would that impact my birthday?
lol!

God bless you both and your families.
Hi Bobinfaith -

OK, let's say God created mature plants - they would still need sunlight to survive for an extended period of time - how did they do that? This has me scratching my head :confused: .

How would it impact your birthday? Well, THAT is the million dollar question, of course!!! 😂

Blessings to you and your family!
 

bobinfaith

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Hi Bobinfaith -
OK, let's say God created mature plants - they would still need sunlight to survive for an extended period of time - how did they do that? This has me scratching my head :confused: .
How would it impact your birthday? Well, THAT is the million dollar question, of course!!! 😂
Blessings to you and your family!

Hello paidforinfull;

I'll give you my finite reasoning. How it was done was the difference that God created everything, being in sovereign control, even over His plants.

During the creation, the very first soil was much better than the soil today, which is why the specialty of raising plants in today's time require more sunshine and supplemental nutrients to grow healthy.

Question is, am I stretching here or can I get away with this explanation? lol!

God bless you, sister.
 
Hello paidforinfull;

I'll give you my finite reasoning. How it was done was the difference that God created everything, being in sovereign control, even over His plants.

During the creation, the very first soil was much better than the soil today, which is why the specialty of raising plants in today's time require more sunshine and supplemental nutrients to grow healthy.

Question is, am I stretching here or can I get away with this explanation? lol!

God bless you, sister.
I guess so, but we might never know. I was wondering whether God didn't create them during the very last second of the third day, instead of at the beginning, but that's stretching it even more! It's also possible that the third day was very short - if a day can be longer, it can also be shorter. God can do what He likes.

It's all rather complicated!

:).
 
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Hi Bobinfaith -

OK, let's say God created mature plants - they would still need sunlight to survive for an extended period of time - how did they do that? This has me scratching my head :confused: .

How would it impact your birthday? Well, THAT is the million dollar question, of course!!! 😂

Blessings to you and your family!
If I may

God created plants on day three. He created the sun and stars and moon on day 4

That would only be one day without light.

also. he created light on day 1. what was that light source.
 
Hello Major and paidforinfull;

I'm joining this discussion late. After reading the posts to this thread, I wanted to share my experience to what you posted regarding the students at the university you dealt with, assuming it was close to where you pastored at church.

There was a class I took that studied the doctrine of creation. To me it was an opportunity for potential dialogue and debate between Christianity and science regarding old and new earth creationism. We had to be warned because debates in the past on this subject was brutal because of sharp disagreements.

The new or young earth closely supports the Biblical account of 6000 years and a 24 hour period. The old earth does not agree with the young earth's chronological order, but a logical structuring over a much longer period of time. Are both sides relying on assumptions, or faith?

Though I'm terrible at debates, in my learning view, science interpretation cannot prove the past nor be forced fact.

I debated on the new earth while the opposing students argued the old earth. Both sides presented good arguments and fortunately the discussion / debate was healthy and nobody got kicked out of seminary. lol!

My response to paidforinfull regarding the survival of the plant's process of growth. We have to remember during creation that Adam did not begin his life as a new born baby, thus, the same would go for a new plant.

My question is, whether the old or new creation, how would that impact my birthday?
lol!

God bless you both and your families.

You are just as old as you think you are...............!

I am glad thaat it is not an essential to the faith and just a matter of conversation.
 
Hi Bobinfaith -

OK, let's say God created mature plants - they would still need sunlight to survive for an extended period of time - how did they do that? This has me scratching my head :confused: .

How would it impact your birthday? Well, THAT is the million dollar question, of course!!! 😂

Blessings to you and your family!

Unless he is 1 million years old!!!
 
If I may

God created plants on day three. He created the sun and stars and moon on day 4

That would only be one day without light.

also. he created light on day 1. what was that light source.
Hi Eternally Gratefull:

I wonder what kind of light God created on the 1st day? Not sunlight, since He created that on the 4th day.

Maybe He created the concept of light versus darkness, or maybe He separated spiritual Light from the darkness after the fall of the rebellious angels?

These are the kind of questions I ask myself sometimes.

Blessings :).
 
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Hi Eternally Gratefull:

I wonder what kind of light God created on the 1st day? Not sunlight, since He created that on the 4th day.

Maybe He created the concept of light versus darkness, or maybe He separated spiritual Light from the darkness after the fall of the rebellious angels?

These are the kind of questions I ask myself sometimes.

Blessings :).
It was suggested in one of my Studies that the light was God himself. Not sure I agree..lol Whats interesting is the day seperated from the night. We already have the rotation of the earth set in stone..
 
It was suggested in one of my Studies that the light was God himself. Not sure I agree..lol Whats interesting is the day seperated from the night. We already have the rotation of the earth set in stone..
I agree - God is Light, but He obviously didn't create Himself. God Is eternal.

Yes, the separation of day and night is an interesting topic indeed. So much to occupy inquisitive minds :).

Blessings!
 

bobinfaith

Senior Moderator
Staff member
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If I may God created plants on day three. He created the sun and stars and moon on day 4 That would only be one day without light. also. he created light on day 1. what was that light source.
It was suggested in one of my Studies that the light was God himself. Not sure I agree..lol Whats interesting is the day seperated from the night. We already have the rotation of the earth set in stone..
I agree - God is Light, but He obviously didn't create Himself. God Is eternal. Yes, the separation of day and night is an interesting topic indeed. So much to occupy inquisitive minds :).
Blessings!

Hello Eternally Gratefull and paidforinfull;

Can we equate "God is Light" (which gives us spiritual life,) with "creation of light" (possibly to replace why the plant was nourished on day 3,) because the sun didn't rise (so to speak) lol! until day 4?

I'm throwing this out because I thought about this last night. I don't really know much about nurturing plants or flowers and without reference to
paidforinfull's point on the plants, I would not have given thought about this.

As far as the rotation of the earth being set in stone...
whew! 😎 Amen to that!

God bless you both and thank you.
 
65 million years ago? Again, Who was there 65 million years ago to see a dinosour and tell them they were there? NO ONE.

We have dinos in scripture. You call it a hippo. but it does nto even come close to resembling a hippo.

We have dino and man walking side by side in a few sites.. So to say they NEVER were here together is not factual.

As for death. Adam died the moment he sinned (Spiritually) his body started to decay physically from that point on. and he died physically many years later.

life expectendy after the flood lowered greatly. there are scientific reasons for this. And if you look at them. It all comes together. That is why studying the flood and its affects has so dramatically changed many views on the age of the earth.

You have not answer why death, the penalty of sin. occurs before sin. there was no death before adam, the first death recorded was when God killed an animal or 2 to cloth Adam and Eve and cover their nakedness.

once again, in my view, the only reason to believe in an old earth is to support these theories that the earth needed time to grow to age and to get to the point where it could support life. and for evolutionary processes to take place.

If God created earth for man, a view held by many, Then God could create the earth and create it in a way where mankind can use it. This includes creating the stars so their light shines to earth the DAY they were created (since according to scripture the stars were created for that purpose)

Did God need to wait billions of years for the stars light to reach earth? He is God. Can speaks and it happens.. I believe in miracles. and I believe people who are trying to disprove God exists try to use this science to disprove God. Sadly when this all came out. CHristians started to try to match it to the bible. so old earth theology was created in an order to appease scientists and those questioning why science appears to contradict the word..

it really does not contradict the word.. Not at all. again, the flood answers prety much all the questions..



again. My view
You asked.......
"Who was there 65 million years ago to see a dinosour"

No One............Maybe Barney!
 

crossnote

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Why should the Bible have any explanation for dinosaurs would be the real questin!! If what my opinion is -- The non-avian dinosaurs all became extinct over 65 million years ago, long be fore the Bible was written. The biblical authors had no way of knowing that dinosaurs had ever existed.
And here I thought all the Bible was given under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
The biblical 'authors' would have had no way of knowing about dinosaurs unless the Holy Spirit had revealed that to them.
 
And here I thought all the Bible was given under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
The biblical 'authors' would have had no way of knowing about dinosaurs unless the Holy Spirit had revealed that to them.

I agree which then means that either God did not want us to know, or The Bible does not say anything about “dinosaurs” because the word dinosaur was not coined until 1841 by Sir Richard Owen. Hence one cannot expect the Bible to utilize the term prior to its origination.
 
I agree which then means that either God did not want us to know, or The Bible does not say anything about “dinosaurs” because the word dinosaur was not coined until 1841 by Sir Richard Owen. Hence one cannot expect the Bible to utilize the term prior to its origination.
I would say dinosaur is a "kind" a specie of animal that was created by God.

We have sea creatures and land creatures all who were created by their kind.
 
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