It seems to me that God has allowed technology to be something for you to use in order to grow and learn and have fellowship!
USE IT my friend!
Inevitable accompaniments.
- Thread starter faither
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It seems to me that God has allowed technology to be something for you to use in order to grow and learn and have fellowship!
USE IT my friend!
I tried! You refused to have an honest walk through the salvation journey with me. You also refused to accept the correct understanding of Pisteuo, and it being mistranslated into the English texts.
ok, whatever.
You couldn't 'show me any Scripture that uses the concept that believers are 'to surrender' to God as an ongoing process.
I understand.
Well.........because we are friends and you want to know and it seems that you are not going to get and answer from "faither". I thought I would do the right thing and help.
So to research the biblical concept of surrender, I looked up every time that the word “surrender” in any of its forms occurs in the Bible.
Didn’t take long, because it only appears in the Bible 7 times. Seven. (7).
1 Samuel 23:12 and 23:20; Jeremiah 21:9 and Jeremiah 38: 17, 18, and 21; Jeremiah 50: 15; Deuteronomy 20:11.
All in the Old Testament. Not at all in the New Testament.
"SURRENDER CONTINUALLY" appears NOWHERE!
I figured “Surrender your heart to Jesus” had to be in the New Testament.
That’s in the New Revised Standard Version. If you look in the real English translation of the Bible—the King James Version—well, that’s a different story altogether.
In the King James, the word “surrender” appears—nowhere at all.
That’s none. Nada. Zero. Zip.
Now.....
"Surrender" is woven into the person of God as a Trinity of Love. The Son submits to the Father. The Father seeks to honor the Son. The Spirit points back to both the Father and the Son. The Father and the Son send the Spirit as their representative.
True surrender isn’t a response to defeat; it’s a response to love. But that is just me and I am pretty sure that you already knew all of this!
Yes, basically our response when we have come from a lifetime of rebellion against God.
Well, the expression 'I am crucified with Christ' might lend to this, but if we are not very familiar with the NT we might imagine it is some deliberately painful or ascetic (denying-ourselves a normal need or even pleasure). But the thing has a context which is Galatians.
When things are in Galatians you really want to pay attention because although the document is a letter, not a narrative like Matthew or Acts, there is a fair amount of social interaction going on--people being obtuse, arrogant, quarreling, censorious, and so forth. In other letters, these features are missing and they aren't quite as clear.
Now the thing about Galatians is that Judaizers said a Christian needed to add circumcision on to Christ. (There are other things that could be added at that time--sabbath observances, washings, trips to Jerusalem for festivals, and even blocking off visitors because they were Gentiles). The Judaizer said that a person was not really a Christian until they did this (fill in the blank).
Now comes the expression 'crucified with Christ' or later 'to preach only the cross of Christ.' Paul meant that the Judaizer was so nasty that he was actually 'killing' the believer who had welcomed uncircumcised Gentiles simply because they believed on Christ's work for them, and didn't add on. In spite of this re-done 'crucifixion' by the Judaizer, Paul still lived, or actually Christ, was still alive in him.
As further clarification of how things were used in this setting, Paul said he was crucified to the world, and the world to him. This again had to do with Judaizer's insinuation and persecution. The world was not the secular system or alcohol or other vices. It was the unbelief of the anti-social Judaizer and it was ruining Paul's fellowship groups. The cross of Christ was Paul's only basis for fellowship, no matter what tribe, race or gender the other believer was. So Paul was 'crucified' (dead) to the demands of the Judaizers. And the Judaizer was dead to him--he didn't jump when the Judaizer said jump. Notice that half of the works of the flesh are divisive postures. No wonder.
the Judiazers wanted to keep Jesus to themselves (Jewish people only) while wider Israel was ignored, and by extension, uncircumcised Gentiles.
Paul said her was from the tribe Benjamin, so he was actually also part of Israel. He wasn't actually from the Judah tribe, they had kind of separated themselves from all the rest of Israel because of Jerusalem and claim to royalty..they were a lot stricter and possibly prided themselves on being more observant than the rest, but maybe only because they were closer to Jerusalem, as that was in their allotted lands. Jesus was born in Betheleham Judaea so that technically made him Judaean though of course there were disputes over his parentage and also, since he grew up and lived in Nazareth, Gaililee that was sort of seen as a hick town by their standards.
Every year all of Israel were meant to pilgrimage to Jerusalem to celebrate the passover and bring their sacrifices and offerings. So the Jewish people grew very wealthy from this traffic.
The Kingdom of Israel had actually split into two - House of Judah was made up of 3 tribes Benjamin, Levi and Judah and House of Israel was the rest. They tried to set up an alternative temple in Shiloh I think it was. Correct me if I'm wrong. Helps if you have a map.
Paul said her was from the tribe Benjamin, so he was actually also part of Israel. He wasn't actually from the Judah tribe, they had kind of separated themselves from all the rest of Israel because of Jerusalem and claim to royalty..they were a lot stricter and possibly prided themselves on being more observant than the rest, but maybe only because they were closer to Jerusalem, as that was in their allotted lands. Jesus was born in Betheleham Judaea so that technically made him Judaean though of course there were disputes over his parentage and also, since he grew up and lived in Nazareth, Gaililee that was sort of seen as a hick town by their standards.
Every year all of Israel were meant to pilgrimage to Jerusalem to celebrate the passover and bring their sacrifices and offerings. So the Jewish people grew very wealthy from this traffic.
The Kingdom of Israel had actually split into two - House of Judah was made up of 3 tribes Benjamin, Levi and Judah and House of Israel was the rest. They tried to set up an alternative temple in Shiloh I think it was. Correct me if I'm wrong. Helps if you have a map.
Ok...And does this relate to the innovation on 'crucified' in Galatians or to the surrender question?
The temple was kind of like the White House for the US or Buckingham Palace for England. Except the temple was where God was meant to dwell with His people.
Now if a bomb hit the White House or Buckingham Palace everyone would have thought that would be a disaster right?
Yet Jesus warned the shiny temple, the focal point of all their devotion, was going to be destroyed.
Now if a bomb hit the White House or Buckingham Palace everyone would have thought that would be a disaster right?
Yet Jesus warned the shiny temple, the focal point of all their devotion, was going to be destroyed.
well not really I was picking up on what made Judaizers so insistent that they were right about everything and everyone follow their way, like being circumcised etc. Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem, which was THEIR city. It was in Judah. Although I think technically it was just outside the Jerusalem city gates.
The eschatology of the Judaizers said that all Israel needed to obey Torah perfectly so that Messiah would come and reign. There were Sabbath police etc that would remind us of the Taliban today.
I've always taken Paul's statement of 'crucified with Christ' to be akin to Rom 6:6 and 7:1-4, where the believer's relationship to sin and the law has been cut and our obligation is to the One who died and rose on our behalf.
I would recommend looking at how it is attached to the controversy with Peter in Gal 2. It comes on the heels of that.
As well as Acts 15.