Is Belief in God logical?

[john14six]

God has always been there. No beginning. That is what we should trust.

What do you have to say about the Gospel? What do you say about Jesus?

 

[john14six]

The gospel was created by god for man and Jesus was crucified and raised from the dead for mans salvation.

The Gospel is the death, burial, & resurrection of Jesus. He died on the cross where he shed his blood to pay the penalty for our sin that we owe God; a penalty that we could not pay. And he will return someday to take us to be with him.

Is your faith in the Gospel or is your faith in your faith?

 

[john14six]

John 20:31

Do you believe that when Jesus died on the cross, He paid the penalty for your sin? Are you trusting in His finished work on the cross for your salvation?

 

[john14six]

Yes he died for my sins and consequences.

 

[crossnote]

Just a note, This forum is not designed to question a person's salvation

 

[john14six]

Just a note, This forum is not designed to question a person's salvation

OK, sorry, it won't happen again.

 

[bobinfaith]

The Gospel is the death, burial, & resurrection of Jesus. He died on the cross where he shed his blood to pay the penalty for our sin that we owe God; a penalty that we could not pay. And he will return someday to take us to be with him. Is your faith in the Gospel or is your faith in your faith?

John 20:31

Do you believe that when Jesus died on the cross, He paid the penalty for your sin? Are you trusting in His finished work on the cross for your salvation?

I'd like to jump in with a thought. We all ponder on the questions and answers regarding our belief, faith and even the hard questions directed at God.

Regardless, even with crossing the t's and dotting the i's, many Christians, seasoned and nominal, still remain unhappy. That is falling short of proper trust in Him.

Is this logical with our belief in God?

Bob

 

[john14six]

I'd like to jump in with a thought. We all ponder on the questions and answers regarding our belief, faith and even the hard questions directed at God.

Regardless, even with crossing the t's and dotting the i's, many Christians, seasoned and nominal, still remain unhappy. That is falling short of proper trust in Him.

Is this logical with our belief in God?

Bob

Not sure how to answer this question, Bob.

Sometimes, we get confused about the difference between justification and sanctification.

 

[BibleLover]

I'd like to jump in with a thought. We all ponder on the questions and answers regarding our belief, faith and even the hard questions directed at God.

Regardless, even with crossing the t's and dotting the i's, many Christians, seasoned and nominal, still remain unhappy. That is falling short of proper trust in Him.

Is this logical with our belief in God?

Bob

Bob, I'd have answer no; Christian unhappiness isn't logical or reasonable, but it does happen. I think a given Christian's unhappiness is a spiritual problem that the individual needs to address with God. If the issue is chronic unhappiness, the person is probably undergoing a supernatural spiritual attack with which God can help. If the unhappiness is transitory, God might be trying to teach the believer something that will help the believer mature more. Finally, one problem might be the believer's understanding of the difference between happiness and joy. Joy can sometimes be missing for specific reasons, but happiness is a long term condition that is present even in the temporary absence of joy.

The normal state for a child of God is happiness.

 

[bobinfaith]

Not sure how to answer this question, Bob.Sometimes, we get confused about the difference between justification and sanctification.

Bob, I'd have answer no; Christian unhappiness isn't logical or reasonable, but it does happen. I think a given Christian's unhappiness is a spiritual problem that the individual needs to address with God. If the issue is chronic unhappiness, the person is probably undergoing a supernatural spiritual attack with which God can help. If the unhappiness is transitory, God might be trying to teach the believer something that will help the believer mature more. Finally, one problem might be the believer's understanding of the difference between happiness and joy. Joy can sometimes be missing for specific reasons, but happiness is a long term condition that is present even in the temporary absence of joy. The normal state for a child of God is happiness.

I agree, John and BibleLover;

I feel the difference between justification (which we are not) and sanctification (which we attain not on our own) can still take us to places of unhappiness in our relationship with Christ. It happens.

We can strive to do right in His sight in all things and we will still have those times of a bad day, that's not what I'm alluding to.

It's when we stop at the end of a time period and find ourselves falling short with happiness with God and even joy. Based on my experience this is an improper trust in God. This is not logical.

What is logical is, is doing something about it by leaning on a brother or sister in Christ, a pastor or as BibleLover points out, chronic unhappiness may call for a clinical counselor to help guide us back in our relationship with God.

Bob

 

[crossnote]

I feel the difference between justification (which we are not) and sanctification (which we attain not on our own)

bobinfaith , could you please explain what you mean by "justification (which we are not)"?

 

[bobinfaith]

bobinfaith , could you please explain what you mean by "justification (which we are not)"?

Hello crossnote;

Our justification cannot be done by our works or merit, but only by God's saving grace.

Galatians 2:16, 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. - ESV

That's what I was trying convey in response to John which I agreed with him while expanding.

God bless you and thank you for asking.

Bob

 

[crossnote]

Hello crossnote;

Our justification cannot be done by our works or merit, but only by God's saving grace.

Galatians 2:16, 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. - ESV

That's what I was trying convey in response to John which I agreed with him while expanding.

God bless you and thank you for asking.

Bob

Thanks Bob, I thought maybe it was along the lines of 'justified, we are not', but I knew that's not what you meant...so I asked.

 

[bobinfaith]

Thanks Bob, I though maybe it was along the lines of 'justified, we are not', but I knew that's not what you meant...so I asked.

Thanks, crossnote, me too. I try to follow that same rule.

 

[Major]

Not sure how to answer this question, Bob.

Sometimes, we get confused about the difference between justification and sanctification.

You sould not allow that to confuse you.

"Justification" is a legal term that means....."Declared Not Guility".

'Sanctification" is a process. It is the actions we take after we are saved so as to be set apart for God's use of us.

 

[Major]

Major, thanks for your advice, and I agree that I should talk to them about Jesus. And that is exactly what I did do with the atheist lady and continue to present the Gospel whenever I see to opportunity. Those who have read my post here about debating the atheist do not know the whole story. I did not get into every detail about the conversation, in which I did present the gospel message to the lady, and of course she was having nothing to do with it. My reason for even mentioning the story about debating the atheist was in response to another post here in which the person made the comment that those want to see God will, and those who do not want to see God won't. In my post I explained that after I recounted the event where I found the truth about believing in Jesus while reading the Gospel of John, the atheist lady dismissed it as "circular reasoning," and she then said that she had read the Gospel of John several times and did not find Jesus or God there. There is more to the story than that which I have explained here, but I will not get into that, because the point I was trying to make in the post has already been made.

Also, I thought that I had made it clear in my posts that I no longer engage atheist in debate.

I participate in several Christian web sites, and my main objective is to find those who are struggling with their faith so I might help them. I can relate to their struggle because many years ago I struggled with my faith, or lack of faith, until I found the peace of assurance found only in God's word. I point out to them that after I talked with Christians, pastor, etc. and read bible tracts, and books written by Christian authors, I did not find an answer. I finally gave up on myself and began to read scripture. I found my answer in 2 days while reading the Gospel of John. Whenever I am helping someone, I always point them to God's Word. That was my reason for answering the question the atheist lady asked in her post. I actually thought that she was looking for an answer to the question; I did not know she was looking for a debate.

Regards

John

Great news John. I believe you know as I do that the atheist knows more about Scripture that most Christians. When we talk about Jesus we then cut that short because we are talking about something personal to us which can not be debated!

God belss you my friend.

 

[Major]

There is a sense in which belief in God is not logical, but not in the sense the non-believers mean. The philosopher V. V. Doniela argued that logic is not (as is often claimed) about correct thinking, but is actually about the structure of the world, which is reflected in our thought processes. Strictly speaking, he argued that it concerned laws of non-temporal cross sections of the world when the latter is seen as process; in effect, what Einstein termed world tubes, but that need not bother us here! Doniela agreed with a student suggestion that this implied that logic is only applicable to the macroscopic world and may not be relevant to the quantum realm. The quantum realm does seem illogical - for instance, it does not seem logical that an electron can be both a particle and a wave. Doniela is an atheist and, as such, does not believe in a spiritual realm, but I believe in such a realm and suggest that it is no more governed by the logic of the macroscopic familiar world than is the quantum realm. I accept that an electron is both a wave and a particle (even though this is against familiar-world logic) and I can equally accept that God is both a Unity and a Trinity, even though this goes against the logic of the macro world. But because our minds have been formed by the logic of the macro world, the different logic of both the quantum realm and the spiritual world seems illogical to us. These realms transcend logic as we now it!
Another issue raised by skeptics is that belief in God is (in their opinion) so strange that it requires very strong evidence which, they assume, does not exist. But there are many, many, instances of people who have been directed by God to contact a stranger only to find that the contact has had vital consequences for either the person being directed or the one to whom s/he was directed. That such encounters could be random is of such low probability as to strongly imply genuine direction by an omniscient Intelligence. Indeed, it would be irrational to accept any other explanation. A true skeptic, to be consistent, should think deeply about this. If these experiences are considered with the seriousness they deserve, it is clear that belief, not unbelief, is the more rational position.

I have been giving this some thought. It is really Two questions in one.

#1 Is God Logical and #2, is the belief in God logical?

It is in my opinion logical to believe in God because the existence of God provides consistent answers to many of the more important philosophical questions asked by human beings.

For instance, we seem to think that there cannot be an infinite amount of past time. It is illogical to claim we are currently at the “end” of an infinite string of moments, therefore, there had to be some beginning moment. Therefore, there has to be something, that is itself non-caused. Logically, this is God.

Another reason belief in God is logical is that the universe appears to be carefully crafted to allow life. Not only that, but this arrangement allows for the kind of life that is complex enough to be self-aware. Ultimately, there are only two explanations for this:
1). some kind of God or
2). random luck.
And punting to “luck” has never been a very logical answer.

The fact that we think of “logic” at all also supports the idea of God as a rational belief.

If there is no God, or God does not exist, then there is no intelligence, purpose, or meaning in anything. Intelligence, purpose, and meaning are simply illusions created by physics and chemistry.

However, if there is no God, it would also mean our reason, intellect, and learning are mere illusions of physics. Lacking God, there is no logic. There is no reason to think our thoughts are meaningful or that they actually reflect reality. Our thoughts may be good for survival or simply the results of randomness, but they can’t be relied on as true. In short, the only way to believe that there is such a thing as logic is for one to believe in some kind of God.

Another key point is that those who believe in the laws of logic are confident in something objective, eternal, and non-material. Any objection that God is immaterial, eternal, or objective would be hypocritical coming from someone who puts stock in the laws of logic.

We also know that God Himself is logical, based on His words and His actions. First and foremost, God acts in a logical way: He plans, communicates, discusses, and acts. God even speaks of “reasoning” with human beings. He distinguishes between truth and falsehood, a core aspect of basic logic. God does not always act in ways human beings would prefer, but this does not mean His actions are “illogical.”

Also, the fact that there are certain things God “cannot” do, such as lie or change, is evidence of His logical nature. A truly perfect being, by definition, cannot change or he ceases to be perfect. This means God cannot contradict His own nature, or else He would be breaking the laws of logic.

Well....that enough for me. All of this in depth thinking is giving me a headache.

 

[john14six]

You sould not allow that to confuse you.

"Justification" is a legal term that means....."Declared Not Guility".

'Sanctification" is a process. It is the actions we take after we are saved so as to be set apart for God's use of us.

Oh, I'm not the one who is confused about it. In my experience, counseling those who are struggling with doubts about their salvation, I have found many people confuse scriptures that relate to sanctification with justification. Another mistake I see is that people take a scripture out of context and apply it to themselves in a way it was not intended and then become fearful that the scripture is speaking to them.

 

[crossnote]

According to our finite minds, concepts of God seem illogical as 'eternal', 'infinite', 'trinity' etc. . You would have to go with a novel word, one like supra-logical, i.e. outside our bounds of finite logic.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Another key point is that those who believe in the laws of logic are confident in something objective, eternal, and non-material. Any objection that God is immaterial, eternal, or objective would be hypocritical coming from someone who puts stock in the laws of logic.

You are on fire!