Jeremiah 1:5

Euphemia said:
We are allowed to disobey God because God has created us with free will. Some people are not even aware of what God's will is and so they disobey and their consequences are unrecognizable, and/or just viewed as hardship, so as a deterrent? Not so much for some. God has a plan A for each of us, but we can live our lives in such a way as we miss it, but God always has a plan B ready and waiting. He is merciful and good---always.
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So even If I chose to be bad ,God has plan B to save me?
 
Brainydaps said:
Hmmmm that is more like tampering with Jeremiah 's will to me.
Because our desires determines our will,If God can control his desire then he can control his will
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Since you have been asking so many questions (more in an intimidating fashion), let me ask a polite question..

So you are asking if God does not have the power or authority to control anything? So you are saying God simply created Jeremiah and simply keeping His fingers crossed hoping Jeremiah would agree?
 
Ravindran said:
Since you have been asking so many questions (more in an intimidating fashion), let me ask a polite question..

So you are asking if God does not have the power or authority to control anything? So you are saying God simply created Jeremiah and simply keeping His fingers crossed hoping Jeremiah would agree?
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Yes,because the answers I have been receiving suggest exactly that.
 
Ravindran said:
Since you have been asking so many questions (more in an intimidating fashion), let me ask a polite question..

So you are asking if God does not have the power or authority to control anything? So you are saying God simply created Jeremiah and simply keeping His fingers crossed hoping Jeremiah would agree?
Click to expand...

Are u also suggesting with ur questions that God has the power to control our will through our desires?
 
Ravindran said:
Since you have been asking so many questions (more in an intimidating fashion), let me ask a polite question..

So you are asking if God does not have the power or authority to control anything? So you are saying God simply created Jeremiah and simply keeping His fingers crossed hoping Jeremiah would agree?
Click to expand...

Or let me put it this way,If God didn't just kept His finger crossed hoping that Jeremiah would agree,then you are simply implying that God has designed Jeremiah's future to be a prophet and there is nothing he could do to change that.

Do I still have a pre conceived mind? Or is there something Am not getting?
 
Brainydaps said:
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

I supposed this was God talking to Jeremiah.

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you"

Does that mean that Jeremiah existed before fertilization occurred?
If Yes,then in what form did Jeremiah exist before he was formed in the womb?

"before you were born I set you apart,I appointed you as a prophet to the nations"

So that clearly means even before Jeremiah was born,he was set apart as a prophet and he couldn't have been anything else But a prophet right? Obviously Yes,from a normal direct interpretation.

So how then does Jeremiah has a choice to be anything else But a prophet? How does Jeremiah get to decide for himself what he wants to be If he has been predestined to be a prophet as clearly shown in the passage.

Can I still say Jeremiah has freewill in deciding what he wants to be?
Click to expand...

Ok, first let me say, many are not going to like what I'm going to say because the devil has hijacked this truth and many immediately reject it, but it's better than Calvinism. I'm sure this will be too much meat but this isn't a milk question, 1 Cor 3:2; Heb 5:12. So let's start at the beginning and use our brains.

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God breathed the breath of life into clay and made a living soul. (NOTE: if Adam was predestinated to be innocent, God would not have made the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil to give him a choice!) Well, that explains Adam, but what about Able? Or you or me? So where did our "breath" come from? The word breath in Hebrew is נְשָׁמָה (nshamah) and means:
1. breath, spirit
a. breath (of God)
b. breath (of man)
c. every breathing thing
d. spirit (of man)​
In Greek
ψυχή psuche
a. the breath of life
1. the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing​

Then we have this verse talking about death:

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The word spirit here has many meanings, but I use the definition: the energy of life, as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being.

So we see right off that the spirit comes from God and returns to God regardless of what happens on earth and our bodies turn to dust after this spirit is removed. So, that leaves what was made, the soul - נֶפֶשׁ. Interestingly, the meaning of each letter is: seed (or life), mouth, God (or consumes). Neat how it literally means the life from God is consumed by the mouth.

We are created spirit beings and made humans at conception, the spark of life. God wants the soul and body to be saved WITH the spirit!

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV)
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

It's easy to equate all reference to "spirit" as the Holy Spirit, but Jesus had a spirit independent of the Holy Spirit which did not rest on Him until His baptism, Mat 3:16. Even the unsaved have a spirit because that is the life of the body! In fact there are seven spirits:

Revelation 1:4 (KJV)
John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Revelation 3:1 (KJV)
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Revelation 4:5 (KJV)
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Revelation 5:6 (KJV)
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Those seven spirits are:

Isaiah 11:2 (KJV)
And the spirit of the LORD {Abdicate: this is the Holy Spirit} shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

These seven spirits are what seals the scroll of your life.

Revelation 5:1 (KJV)
And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book {Abdicate: also scroll} written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

The book in Revelation is the scroll of the Lamb which could only be opened by the Lamb through these seven spirits because they gave Him wisdom, understanding, counsel, might, knowledge and fear of the LORD and rested on Him, while he was here on the Earth in the flesh. By the Spirit He fulfilled the law in the flesh. This is how we are to walk in the Spirit (via the seven spirits that teach us all truth.) We all have a scroll in our hearts, the scroll of our testimony, a plan from God, to fulfill His will, given to us before the foundation of the earth. This shows we are created spirits with a mission which require us to get saved (come alive, quicken) in the body:

Psalms 119:88 (KJV)
Quicken me after thy lovingkindness; so shall I keep the testimony of thy mouth.

Psalms 40:7-8 (KJV)
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.

Romans 8:11 (KJV)
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Once we are alive, we have a new desire, the desire to do God's will, what's written on our hearts, God's plan. Why do you think it's so easy to see very young children with so much life, free of fear, free of sin, and they seem to glow? Because the scroll of the heart is fresh and they speak the truth!

Psalms 8:2 (KJV)
Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

We are taught to fear and hate and to sin, which also comes easily because it too is in our genes via Adam, and then we forget God's plan. It's easy to say that only the Ten Commandments are written in our hearts but the word law is literally teachings, so this is much more than just the workings of our conscience, but the plan God has for our lives.

The problem with these verses in Jeremiah is that people ignore other verses and jump to conclusion like: he had no choice. When you start down that path, then why preach the gospel at all? Since we have no choice we can do whatever we want! That's the real danger of Calvinism. So if these verses don't mean Jeremiah was forced to be a prophet, then what could it mean? What about common sense? There was a plan. A plan conceived by God fulfilled by Jeremiah.

Psalms 33:11 (KJV) The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

The word thoughts here means intention, plan, a plot.

Psalms 139:13-16 (KJV)
For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully [and] wonderfully made: marvellous [are] thy works; and [that] my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, [and] curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them.

These three verses are an amazing testament to our existence. They show we have a mission from before we were formed, given to us in the spirit and then that mission is written on our hearts.

Psalms 37:23 (KJV)
The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

The word ordered is established, firm, fixed, but the word man here isn't adam or ish, but a warrior (גּבר geber). God has a plan for His soldiers, 2 Timothy 2:3, literally orders!

God has a plan for every living soul and when that soul refuses, He moves on to someone who will obey. If we were forced, then Adam never would have had the forbidden tree, and never would have sinned and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Jesus learned obedience and did what He saw His Father do.

John 8:13-14 (KJV)
The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, [yet] my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

Yes Jesus is God but He still had to learn, just as we do, through the Holy Spirit (and the seven spirits), 1 John 2:27. He learned the plan written on His heart, just as we must. This scroll in our heart can only be opened by us through the teachings of the seven spirits and it can take a lifetime to learn. It took Jesus about 30 years, Luke 3:23, to learn, Matt 26:39, and He had no sin, so imagine us.

Hebrews 5:8 (KJV)
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Now I hope you better understand this verse:

Psalms 37:4 (KJV)
Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

The desires of your heart, are the plans of God, not the fleshly desires to fill your wallet or garage or be famous, because when you first delight in the Lord, then your desire for the physical is diminished and change to the spiritual.

I hope you didn't skim over this long comment, it is filled with stuff that will require the reader to meditate on.
 
Euphemia said:
It is our job to cooperate with God's will as He makes it known to us.
Click to expand...

What then is the purpose of God giving us our own freewill Since it's our job to cooperate with God's will.
I mean,Why did God give us freewill,Since it's our job to cooperate with God's will. God could as well not given us any freewill since He truly wants us to cooperate or do His will.

I don't see the purpose of me having freewill when I Am supposed to be doing God's will,let God completely remove my freewill So that I can do His will perfectly and serve Him just the way He want,my freewill is of no use to me Since it's my job to do God's will not my own will.
Thanks
 
Abdicate said:
Ok, first let me say, many are not going to like what I'm going to say because the devil has hijacked this truth and many immediately reject it, but it's better than Calvinism. I'm sure this will be too much meat but this isn't a milk question, 1 Cor 3:2; Heb 5:12. So let's start at the beginning and use our brains.

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God breathed the breath of life into clay and made a living soul. (NOTE: if Adam was predestinated to be innocent, God would not have made the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil to give him a choice!) Well, that explains Adam, but what about Able? Or you or me? So where did our "breath" come from? The word breath in Hebrew is נְשָׁמָה (nshamah) and means:
1. breath, spirit
a. breath (of God)
b. breath (of man)
c. every breathing thing
d. spirit (of man)​
In Greek
ψυχή psuche
a. the breath of life
1. the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing​

Then we have this verse talking about death:

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The word spirit here has many meanings, but I use the definition: the energy of life, as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being.

So we see right off that the spirit comes from God and returns to God regardless of what happens on earth and our bodies turn to dust after this spirit is removed. So, that leaves what was made, the soul - נֶפֶשׁ. Interestingly, the meaning of each letter is: seed (or life), mouth, God (or consumes). Neat how it literally means the life from God is consumed by the mouth.

We are created spirit beings and made humans at conception, the spark of life. God wants the soul and body to be saved WITH the spirit!

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV)
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

It's easy to equate all reference to "spirit" as the Holy Spirit, but Jesus had a spirit independent of the Holy Spirit which did not rest on Him until His baptism, Mat 3:16. Even the unsaved have a spirit because that is the life of the body! In fact there are seven spirits:

Revelation 1:4 (KJV)
John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Revelation 3:1 (KJV)
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Revelation 4:5 (KJV)
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Revelation 5:6 (KJV)
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Those seven spirits are:

Isaiah 11:2 (KJV)
And the spirit of the LORD {Abdicate: this is the Holy Spirit} shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

These seven spirits are what seals the scroll of your life.

Revelation 5:1 (KJV)
And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book {Abdicate: also scroll} written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

The book in Revelation is the scroll of the Lamb which could only be opened by the Lamb through these seven spirits because they gave Him wisdom, understanding, counsel, might, knowledge and fear of the LORD and rested on Him, while he was here on the Earth in the flesh. By the Spirit He fulfilled the law in the flesh. This is how we are to walk in the Spirit (via the seven spirits that teach us all truth.) We all have a scroll in our hearts, the scroll of our testimony, a plan from God, to fulfill His will, given to us before the foundation of the earth. This shows we are created spirits with a mission which require us to get saved (come alive, quicken) in the body:

Psalms 119:88 (KJV)
Quicken me after thy lovingkindness; so shall I keep the testimony of thy mouth.

Psalms 40:7-8 (KJV)
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.

Romans 8:11 (KJV)
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Once we are alive, we have a new desire, the desire to do God's will, what's written on our hearts, God's plan. Why do you think it's so easy to see very young children with so much life, free of fear, free of sin, and they seem to glow? Because the scroll of the heart is fresh and they speak the truth!

Psalms 8:2 (KJV)
Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

We are taught to fear and hate and to sin, which also comes easily because it too is in our genes via Adam, and then we forget God's plan. It's easy to say that only the Ten Commandments are written in our hearts but the word law is literally teachings, so this is much more than just the workings of our conscience, but the plan God has for our lives.

The problem with these verses in Jeremiah is that people ignore other verses and jump to conclusion like: he had no choice. When you start down that path, then why preach the gospel at all? Since we have no choice we can do whatever we want! That's the real danger of Calvinism. So if these verses don't mean Jeremiah was forced to be a prophet, then what could it mean? What about common sense? There was a plan. A plan conceived by God fulfilled by Jeremiah.

Psalms 33:11 (KJV) The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

The word thoughts here means intention, plan, a plot.

Psalms 139:13-16 (KJV)
For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully [and] wonderfully made: marvellous [are] thy works; and [that] my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, [and] curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them.

These three verses are an amazing testament to our existence. They show we have a mission from before we were formed, given to us in the spirit and then that mission is written on our hearts.

Psalms 37:23 (KJV)
The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

The word ordered is established, firm, fixed, but the word man here isn't adam or ish, but a warrior (גּבר geber). God has a plan for His soldiers, 2 Timothy 2:3, literally orders!

God has a plan for every living soul and when that soul refuses, He moves on to someone who will obey. If we were forced, then Adam never would have had the forbidden tree, and never would have sinned and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Jesus learned obedience and did what He saw His Father do.

John 8:13-14 (KJV)
The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, [yet] my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

Yes Jesus is God but He still had to learn, just as we do, through the Holy Spirit (and the seven spirits), 1 John 2:27. He learned the plan written on His heart, just as we must. This scroll in our heart can only be opened by us through the teachings of the seven spirits and it can take a lifetime to learn. It took Jesus about 30 years, Luke 3:23, to learn, Matt 26:39, and He had no sin, so imagine us.

Hebrews 5:8 (KJV)
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Now I hope you better understand this verse:

Psalms 37:4 (KJV)
Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

The desires of your heart, are the plans of God, not the fleshly desires to fill your wallet or garage or be famous, because when you first delight in the Lord, then your desire for the physical is diminished and change to the spiritual.

I hope you didn't skim over this long comment, it is filled with stuff that will require the reader to meditate on.
Click to expand...

I will get back to ur post soon,you know it's very long.
 
Brainydaps said:
What then is the purpose of God giving us our own freewill Since it's our job to cooperate with God's will.
I mean,Why did God give us freewill,Since it's our job to cooperate with God's will. God could as well not given us any freewill since He truly wants us to cooperate or do His will.

I don't see the purpose of me having freewill when I Am supposed to be doing God's will,let God completely remove my freewill So that I can do His will perfectly and serve Him just the way He want,my freewill is of no use to me Since it's my job to do God's will not my own will.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Sacrificing our will for God's brings blessing....that is one of the purposes.
 
@Abdicate are you trying to make me believe that the desires of my heart is the same as the plan of God from your last statement?

So If I tell you that I want to be richer than bill gates,is that not my heart desire?

If I tell you that I want to be more famous than Micheal Jackson,is that not my heart desires?

If Yes,then are they God's plan for me?

Are you trying to make me believe that my desire to be richer than bill gates and more famous than Micheal Jackson are not my heart desires?
 
Brainydaps said:
What then is the purpose of God giving us our own freewill Since it's our job to cooperate with God's will.
I mean,Why did God give us freewill,Since it's our job to cooperate with God's will. God could as well not given us any freewill since He truly wants us to cooperate or do His will.

I don't see the purpose of me having freewill when I Am supposed to be doing God's will,let God completely remove my freewill So that I can do His will perfectly and serve Him just the way He want,my freewill is of no use to me Since it's my job to do God's will not my own will.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Love is the answer. Love is the purpose. Forced love is not love. We choose to love someone, we choose to love God. God's love is unconditional, unfailing, and unchanging. You seem to be applying your wisdom to match that of God's. Our finite minds cannot comprehend an infinite God.

Trust in the LORD with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding. Seek his will in all you do, and he will show you which path to take. (‭Proverbs‬ ‭3‬:‭5-6‬ NLT)

For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts. (‭Isaiah‬ ‭55‬:‭9‬ NLT)
 
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