Jesus Omnicient?

Jesus came as a man. As God He chose to take off His robe of authority and set it aside to live as we do. The only difference between Jesus and us, when He lived as a man, is that He had no sin. He was still tempted which means He had a choice. He dealt with the devil as man. He lived obediently as man. He learned obedience, Heb 5:8. Was He still God? 100% Mat 26:53. But even then, He would have prayed as a man so the Father would hear His prayer. Do no interpret Jesus' actions as not being God, but He did what He did because of love and the only legal way to do it was as a plain simple man.

Why is this such an important matter, because He said we could do what He did, and more, John 14:12. But to do that, we must also do what He did, be obedient to the Holy Spirit, the same Holy Spirit He had and gave to us. To say that Jesus did what He did as God in a man's form is to deny the very cross upon which He died for us. To say that Jesus did what he did as God removes His authority over the earth. Jesus is 100% God but came and lived as a man, 100% of the time. Not once did He do anything of His own authority, John 5:30-47. He fulfilled, in the flesh, what Adam could not do. Jesus, the Son of Man, the Son of God.
 
Which is greater? The one who speaks or the word that is spoken?
Likewise which is greater the tree or the seed of the fruit from which it comes?

How then do you doubt the father? and not believe the Son? Whom God has sent.

in Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
Which is greater? The one who speaks or the word that is spoken?
Likewise which is greater the tree or the seed of the fruit from which it comes?

How then do you doubt the father? and not believe the Son? Whom God has sent.

in Christ
gerald
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To whom are you speaking?
 
Prophecies are given to show men that God is God.

Isaiah 46:8-10 (KJV)
Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring [it] again to mind, O ye transgressors. Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:​

Jeremiah 28:9 (KJV)
The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, [then] shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him.​
 
What God has determined WILL COME TO PASS. You are stating your opinion and you are welcome to do that because every has one. I believe however that you will find out from this website of believers that we will depend on what the Scriptures tell us instead of depending on what someone says or thinks. (No offence intended toward you).

Isaiah 14:24......
"The LORD of hosts has sworn: “As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand."

Ez. 12:25.........
"For I am the LORD; I will speak the word that I will speak, and it will be performed. It will no longer be delayed, but in your days, O rebellious house, I will speak the word and perform it, declares the Lord GOD.”

Lamentations 3:37......
"Who has spoken and it came to pass, unless the Lord has commanded it?"

Now, if 100% of all prophecies have come to pass just as the Bible stated, and they have...100%......why would you at this time believe that God is setting back on His porch and watching the world go by????? I will submit to you that God has a plan and He is working that plan today just as He did 6000 or 6 million years ago.

Acts 4:28......
"to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."

What we call predictive prophecy today is simply God announcing ahead of time what his plans are and what he intends to do. God makes plans and then carries them out.

Isaiah 48:3
"I foretold the former things long ago, my mouth announced them and I made them known; then suddenly I acted and they came to pass".

His plans cannot be thwarted (Job 42:2; Psalm 33:11; Isaiah 14:24).

God "works out everything in accordance with the purpose of his will" (Ephesians 1:11). And he has declared, "Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7; see also Isaiah 42:9).
 
A while back, I came across an idea called "two-time theory" (one of several theories challenging a linear time assumption). Imagine a ball suspended in a room with multiple light sources behind it. It's shadow will appear at several places on the wall. In two-time theory, the wall is like the reality we experience: events take place at different points in time. But the ball itself represents a singularity where all events exist simultaneously.

I don't know if two-time physics reflect the way things really are, but my point is this: we don't know if we really understand how time works. If linear time is an invisible premise (i.e., an assumption), the conclusions we draw will always be false if that's not the case. In two-time physics, for example, there is a dimension where God could perceive time as a singularity, therefore knowing all "past" and "future" events, and this reality exists simultaneously with a dimension where time really exists linearly, so we have real free will.

So obviously, I don't know how time really works. I just want to demonstrate that if we don't have full knowledge of reality, our premises, and therefore our conclusions, will most likely be flawed when we're trying to figure out God. Given that, allow me to humbly suggest, "I guess we can't really comprehend God, and maybe that's kind of the point, and our time is probably better spent just getting out there and doing the things He's asked us to do" is probably a safer bet than "God's omniscience is a theological flaw." :) Peace.
 
God has always wanted His people to know what is to come and He shares that. Therefore He knows all, including time. There are a lot of disservices that we suffer from lack of knowledge. Here's a very important point:

Genesis 1:14 (KJV)
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:​

The word seasons here isn't Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter, it's "appointments". When the Jews were to celebrate the Passover, they were to set aside a lamb on the 10th of the month of Nisan. Durning this time, the lamb was to be examined for impurities and the house thoroughly cleaned of leaven. If it was found perfect, it was to be killed on the 14th of Nisan. The blood was to be put onto the door posts and on top of the door. Then the lamb was to be roasted whole, without breaking its bones. When the angel of death came and saw the blood, it bypassed the house. Those inside were eating the lamb with bitter herbs and with their coats on. This night would mark the beginning of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The day after the sabbath was the Feast of First Fruits.

What's this got to do with time? Jesus.

On the 10th day of the month of Nisan, Jesus hid Himself. When He was taken by the high priests He was examined, as well by Pilot, who said he found no fault in Jesus. He died that day, 14 Nisan, with all the other lambs in Jerusalem. A crown of thorns were put on His head and His hands and feet were pierces - the blood on the door as He is the Door. Through Him those inside Him when the angel of death comes pass over them! He suffered the judgement of hell for us (roasted whole) because none of His bones were broken. We are to always be ready, dressed for the Bridegroom's coming eating to remember Him and His delivery of us from bitter sin. Jesus is the bread of life and when He died, He became unleavened Bread! After the sabbath He arose from the dead to be the First-fruit of the Dead!

What's all this have to do with seasons?

The word used in the Hebrew for appointments is also the word for dress rehearsal! At the appointed time, the Jews practiced and recited all the very events of Jesus. Even the night of 14 Nisan they sing Psa 113-118! Read them and see how they sync up with Jesus. All these dress rehearsals were missed by the Jews, yet they were completed exactly as they were taught and in order. They even kept pentecost long before the pentecostals came onto the scene for it was the counting of the omar! What happened on that day? Moses was given the Law after the fire came down. The Church was given the Holy Spirit when the fire came down! When the law was read, 3000 died. When the Spirit came, 3000 got saved!

Today everyone has their own theories about the end times. I say, read the last three feasts of seven yet to be fulfilled and you'll see them. Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and Sukkoth. God knows the future and He told it to the faithful for it is His appointment. Want to know what's going to happen? Read what happened! Read Genesis chapters 1 through 8 and get the theme of each. Reverse it and you'll see what's going to happen.
 
Seedsower said:
The normal test of heresy is that if a teaching departs from the plain and orthodox teaching of the body of scripture then that teaching is heresy. The fig tree is used by those who deny the full deity of our Lord. They maintain that Jesus would have known the tree had no fruit without approaching it, completely missing the main reason. Thanks for your reply.
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Usually when there are leaves on a fig tree there is also figs. Of course, Jesus knew there was no figs on the tree, his purposed was to teach his disciples a lesson on how faith works which he did at that time.

Mat 21:20.. The disciples were amazed when they saw this and asked, "How did the fig tree wither so quickly?"
Mat 21:21.. Then Jesus told them, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and don't doubt, you can do things like this and much more. You can even say to this mountain, 'May you be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and it will happen.

Jesus, during his ministry was constantly asking question to his followers. Jesus never asked questions to learn anything new as he already knew the answers to every question. This was his form of teaching. Why? Because it is always better to ask a person a question to allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the answer instead of just telling someone the answer. Example, when Jesus asked his disciples who the Son of man was. The Father by Holy Spirit revealed to Peter who he was.
 
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Seedsower said:
The normal test of heresy is that if a teaching departs from the plain and orthodox teaching of the body of scripture then that teaching is heresy. The fig tree is used by those who deny the full deity of our Lord. They maintain that Jesus would have known the tree had no fruit without approaching it, completely missing the main reason. Thanks for your reply.
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There hast to be "three witness's" to every truth. The Father had to be the one who taught it, the Word of God confirms it, and the Holy Spirit must bear witness to the truth. and if we don't have these three, we do not have truth, but some man made up knowledge.

1Jn 5:7.. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The word "record" means "witness, and testify". Having the Word of God alone is not enough. It is very easy to read scriptures and come up with an interpretation, and make people think what we are saying is right. Without the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as wittiness the truth will evade us.
 
Seedsower said:
If Jesus was (I believe He was) God in the flesh, why was He not omniscient? Ex the fig tree.
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Jesus put aside His divine POWER to inhabit the flesh, that flesh is born of woman but the spirit is Jesus inhabiting it. soul thing.
When the Holy Spirit put the naked [if you like] Jesus into the womb of Mary he was still exactly God in divine essense,
Think about this: if you removed all the SPACE between all the atoms of ALL the human beings on Earth, all 7 billion, you would be able to fit them into a space the size of a very small cup.
While your reading this you have arms and legs, that's not you, you have a body but that's not you, if you removed all the flesh from your being till you were only left with the real you, you might only be the size of a baseball,
and spiritually you could probably be compressed way down
to this @. yep that small @ is you? spiritually speaking,
get your head around that. haha
The human egg
is the size of this dot . YEP that's you how big
you were at the startof your life,
a dot. Not the big lumpy thing you've grown into.
Can you imagine God/Jesus being stripped of a huge intergalactic power down to a dot with only His person left in tact.
While He ministered on Earth the ONLY power He had was the Holy Spirit, even though He Himself had Authority power since He was technically the Son of God, He did not possess divine power in the 30 years before His ministry began.
and the Holy Spirit left Him on the cross.
Jesus is God in nature, personality, desires, wants, etc, He is a duplicate, a clone if you like, an exact reflection, but is a distinct individual.
If I were to clone you to the very atoms, you would still be you even though I could not distinguish you from your clone. And the clone of course would be aware that they
while they are exactly the same in every single respect of the original, would acknowledge that they are not the not original but a copy.
No disrespect Lord.
this is my understanding of the trinity.
 
Seedsower said:
If Jesus was (I believe He was) God in the flesh, why was He not omniscient? Ex the fig tree.
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I'm sorry I didn't reply to your question earlier. It's quite simple, God became a man and left His authority and chose to not use His power, but to live 100% as a man. He had to learn obedience just like all of us, Heb 5:8, which shows that included what He knew, or in this case didn't know. Jesus lived as a man and was tempted in every way as a man, but did not sin. When He died, He died as a man and completed what the first man could not - obey God. Jesus lived by the promptings of the Holy Spirit. When He returned to His throne in full glory, then the Holy Spirit was sent to us to do the SAME thing Jesus did - obey God. The difference is, we still have sin in our flesh, but we have, through the death of Jesus on the cross and His resurrection, the same Spirit to obey and need no longer sin. It's a choice. Romans 7-8.

See it comes down to law. God created the angels. God created man. God made man ruler. (Before man, or right after his creation, the angels fell.) Man sinned and he lost his authority and the devil became the ruler. Jesus could only take back what He gave Adam by being a man and obeying God as a man. When the devil killed Jesus, an innocent man, he lost his right to rule, just like Adam. And Jesus is now the ruler of all power, seen and not seen. The devil had no legal right to kill Jesus and if they had known He'd rise from the dead, they never would have killed Him. See, by Jesus rising from the dead, He showed he also ruled over the only permanent tool the devil had - death. Instead of eliminating Jesus from the world, the devil now has to deal with thousands of Jesus' - the Body of Christ! Now the devil's weapon against us is sin. Though we are free from it, if we commit sin, we fall from grace and we're under the law and the devil has his rights back to mess with us. However, when we repent and confess our sins God is faithful to forgive us and we're back under grace.

I hope this helps. God bless. :)
 
Roads said:
A while back, I came across an idea called "two-time theory" (one of several theories challenging a linear time assumption). Imagine a ball suspended in a room with multiple light sources behind it. It's shadow will appear at several places on the wall. In two-time theory, the wall is like the reality we experience: events take place at different points in time. But the ball itself represents a singularity where all events exist simultaneously.

I don't know if two-time physics reflect the way things really are, but my point is this: we don't know if we really understand how time works. If linear time is an invisible premise (i.e., an assumption), the conclusions we draw will always be false if that's not the case. In two-time physics, for example, there is a dimension where God could perceive time as a singularity, therefore knowing all "past" and "future" events, and this reality exists simultaneously with a dimension where time really exists linearly, so we have real free will.

So obviously, I don't know how time really works. I just want to demonstrate that if we don't have full knowledge of reality, our premises, and therefore our conclusions, will most likely be flawed when we're trying to figure out God. Given that, allow me to humbly suggest, "I guess we can't really comprehend God, and maybe that's kind of the point, and our time is probably better spent just getting out there and doing the things He's asked us to do" is probably a safer bet than "God's omniscience is a theological flaw." :) Peace.
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I agree fully with your last point. However, God's omniscience is not in question, rather it's the incarnate Christ's omniscience that is point of the thread. BTW I do believe Christ was omniscient. The answer lying in the H.U. as stated in an earlier post.
 
Abdicate said:
I'm sorry I didn't reply to your question earlier. It's quite simple, God became a man and left His authority and chose to not use His power, but to live 100% as a man. He had to learn obedience just like all of us, Heb 5:8, which shows that included what He knew, or in this case didn't know. Jesus lived as a man and was tempted in every way as a man, but did not sin. When He died, He died as a man and completed what the first man could not - obey God. Jesus lived by the promptings of the Holy Spirit. When He returned to His throne in full glory, then the Holy Spirit was sent to us to do the SAME thing Jesus did - obey God. The difference is, we still have sin in our flesh, but we have, through the death of Jesus on the cross and His resurrection, the same Spirit to obey and need no longer sin. It's a choice. Romans 7-8.

See it comes down to law. God created the angels. God created man. God made man ruler. (Before man, or right after his creation, the angels fell.) Man sinned and he lost his authority and the devil became the ruler. Jesus could only take back what He gave Adam by being a man and obeying God as a man. When the devil killed Jesus, an innocent man, he lost his right to rule, just like Adam. And Jesus is now the ruler of all power, seen and not seen. The devil had no legal right to kill Jesus and if they had known He'd rise from the dead, they never would have killed Him. See, by Jesus rising from the dead, He showed he also ruled over the only permanent tool the devil had - death. Instead of eliminating Jesus from the world, the devil now has to deal with thousands of Jesus' - the Body of Christ! Now the devil's weapon against us is sin. Though we are free from it, if we commit sin, we fall from grace and we're under the law and the devil has his rights back to mess with us. However, when we repent and confess our sins God is faithful to forgive us and we're back under grace.

I hope this helps. God bless. :)
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I posted the thread not because I don't believe in Christ's omniscience but because I do! The answer for me lies in the HU as stated in an earlier post.
CCW95A said:
There hast to be "three witness's" to every truth. The Father had to be the one who taught it, the Word of God confirms it, and the Holy Spirit must bear witness to the truth. and if we don't have these three, we do not have truth, but some man made up knowledge.

1Jn 5:7.. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The word "record" means "witness, and testify". Having the Word of God alone is not enough. It is very easy to read scriptures and come up with an interpretation, and make people think what we are saying is right. Without the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as wittiness the trut1h will evade us.
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1Jn 5:7 is a spurious verse and really should not be used to back up any point. Thanks for your reply.
 
Seedsower said:
I posted the thread not because I don't believe in Christ's omniscience but because I do! The answer for me lies in the HU as stated in an earlier post.

1Jn 5:7 is a spurious verse and really should not be used to back up any point. Thanks for your reply.
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Wow, that is weird I have 30 bible translations, and they are in everyone of them. How about this...

1John 5:7.. For there are three that testify.

This is in the original texts. Who do you suppose are the three who "testify"?

Joh 8:18.. I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me."

1Jn 5:9.. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Joh 5:37.. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Joh 15:26.. "But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
 
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Jesus the man part was not "omniscience", but in his divine nature he was.

Luke 2:52.. Jesus grew in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and all the people.
 
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