John The Baptist And The Harlot Of Revelation...

[CCW95A]

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Evidently John was in, "tribulation" , "being persecuted" for his beliefs as Paul said, "all those who shall live Godly in Christ Jesus, shall suffer persecution" 2 Tim 3:12 Being on the island of Patmos was not a nice place to be, and most likely a place of punishment. Yet in the trying times in a persons life God shows himself to those faithful to his Word in ways we might not get any other way. Job who suffered greatly in his life and yet God revealed himself to him in his distress. At the end of Job,s suffering he said this....

Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

Before Job,s suffering he had heard about God in his ears, but now after going through such terrible times he could say, "now my eyes see you" John being about 90 years old and in tribulation on the isle Patmos would be the perfect place for God to give him Revelations to give to the seven Church's.

 

[The Town Crier]

Rev 1:9 (ESV 2011)
I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 1:9 (KJV)
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

- Original: διά
- Transliteration: Dia
- Phonetic: dee-ah'
- Definition:
1. through

a. of place

1. with
2. in​

b. of time

1. throughout
2. during​

c. of means

1. by
2. by the means of​

2. through

a. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done

1. by reason of
2. on account of
3. because of for this reason
4. therefore
5. on this account​

- Origin: a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act
- TDNT entry: 03:05,1
- Part(s) of speech: Preposition

Pick your truth...

Hey Ab...you made the point for us...John was there for the purpose of or because of...or by reason of...etc like you said 'pick one'...The reason John was there for a purpose or reason- the word of God. Now if you read Rev 10 John explains all that- how he received the Revelation through the angel ( which lines up with his statement in Rev 1):

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


In Rev 10- john takes the little book' from the angel and eats it, and is told that he must go and prophecy...

John was sent to Patmos for the word of God( to receive it) not because he was being 'banished'- that is folklore, and not documented anywhere. Study it some more chief, it all lines up perfect!

TC

 

[The Town Crier]

Jesus knew what language was spoken before by John, His cousin, and He continued it. He is God, remember? Do you forget that John the Baptist was empowered by the heavy anointing of the Holy Spirit?

What difference does it make? The message of Revelation is not altered one iota.

What? John was given the word of Christ on Patmos by the angel- that is how He knew what to prophecy- Remember john was sent to be a prophet:

Luk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

Luk 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.


He received the word of God in the wilderness...

Luk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias
in the wilderness.

The angel carried john into the wilderness:

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Compare scripture with scripture folks...it all lines up just like it is supposed to...

TC

 

[Euphemia]

What? John was given the word of Christ on Patmos by the angel- that is how He knew what to prophecy- Remember john was sent to be a prophet:

Luk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

Luk 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.


He received the word of God in the wilderness...

Luk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias
in the wilderness.

The angel carried john into the wilderness:

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Compare scripture with scripture folks...it all lines up just like it is supposed to...

TC

God's people prophesy. All scripture writers are prophets, too. That includes John the Apostle.

You can see what we all see---similarities, but they do not mean what you extrapolate.

 

[The Town Crier]

[QUOTE="CCW95A, post: 341067,

"John being about 90 years old and in tribulation on the isle Patmos would be the perfect place for God to give him Revelations to give to the seven Church's.[/QUOTE]


That is all fine and dandy but it does not line up with scripture...Who is it that comes 'out of the wilderness' preaching the word of God? John the Baptist...and His words line up with Revelation.

Do you think at 90 years old John 'the apostle' is going to go out and prophecy?

Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.


John 'the apostle' was not a 'prophet'...but John the baptist was raised up for that very purpose:

Luk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

John the baptist was a prophet...Prophets were given their information by angels...again, scripture all lines up perfect. Why resist the truth?

TC

 

[The Town Crier]

God's people prophesy. All scripture writers are prophets, too. That includes John the Apostle.

You can see what we all see---similarities, but they do not mean what you extrapolate.

The 'law and the prophets' were until John since then we are only given the 'spirit of prophecy' out of existing scripture- not to write new words down and present them as the word of God or 'thus saith the Lord'. The scriptures are given and we are given out of what is already written:

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

If you grasp what that scripture means, then you can understand what I wrote above it...

TC

 

[CCW95A]

The Word came to John in the wilderness because that is were he lived. The question now would be what was the Word the came to John? What ever it was it brought him into the country side to preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Then we find this scripture which John uses to describe his mission from God. His job was to prepare a highway in the desert for the coming of the Lord which he did do.

Luke 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Luke 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Luke 3:5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

Now we find John him self telling us what the Word of God said to him in the wilderness. God told John when you see the Spirit of God descend and remain on a person, that person is the messiah, and he is the one who baptises with the Holy Ghost.

John 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

John,s mission on planet earth was to preach "repentance" and to testify who the messiah was.

 

[Euphemia]

[QUOTE="CCW95A, post: 341067,

"John being about 90 years old and in tribulation on the isle Patmos would be the perfect place for God to give him Revelations to give to the seven Church's.

That is all fine and dandy but it does not line up with scripture...Who is it that comes 'out of the wilderness' preaching the word of God? John the Baptist...and His words line up with Revelation.[/quote]

Yes, John the Baptist began his ministry like Jesus---from out of the wilderness. It doesn't apply to John the apostle, unless you consider Patmos the wilderness, which in all similarity, it was. John was at the end of his ministry of proclaiming Jesus Christ.

Do you think at 90 years old John 'the apostle' is going to go out and prophecy?

Do you think God is hindered by a person's age?

Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

That is exactly what John did.

John 'the apostle' was not a 'prophet'...but John the baptist was raised up for that very purpose:

John the apostle was indeed a prophet, just as all writers of scripture are.

Luk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

John the baptist was a prophet...Prophets were given their information by angels...again, scripture all lines up perfect. Why resist the truth?

John the baptist was also a prophet. So, why does that take away from the Lord using His beloved disciple in the same way?

One prophet named John declared the soon first coming of the Messiah, and another prophet, also named John, declared the second soon coming of the Messiah.

 

[Euphemia]

The 'law and the prophets' were until John since then we are only given the 'spirit of prophecy' out of existing scripture- not to write new words down and present them as the word of God or 'thus saith the Lord'. The scriptures are given and we are given out of what is already written:

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

If you grasp what that scripture means, then you can understand what I wrote above it...

TC

John the Apostle was anointed to pen the words of the prophecy in Revelation.

 

[CCW95A]

Remember Jesus,s words concerning John the baptist...

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

John was never in the Kingdom of God, as he lived under the Old Testament, but he did speak about it coming, and that it was at hand. While we find in Revelations....

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[The Town Crier]

The Word came to John in the wilderness because that is were he lived. The question now would be what was the Word the came to John? What ever it was it brought him into the country side to preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Then we find this scripture which John uses to describe his mission from God. His job was to prepare a highway in the desert for the coming of the Lord which he did do.

Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

Now we find John him self telling us what the Word of God said to him in the wilderness. God told John when you see the Spirit of God descend and remain on a person, that person is the messiah, and he is the one who baptises with the Holy Ghost.

And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

John,s mission on planet earth was to preach "repentance" and to testify who the messiah was.

I like how you didn't continue on where he upbraids the pharisees and asks them who warned them about the wrath to come. You cannot cherry pick the scriptures. John the baptist was handpicked by God- given the power and spirit of Elijah the prophet to and told to go out and prepare the people. He is the one who 'bare witness- which is the same one who received the Revelation from God. You cannot just ignore that fact!

Let's see what else John was shown while 'in the wilderness':


Luk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias
in the wilderness.


Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

John was given Revelation of the harlot that would kill the saints. Why would John the apostle be show a vision of something that had already happened some 60 years prior? It wouldn't be much of a 'revelation' or prophecy at that point now would it?

Again, the PDF spells it out crystal clear and when you compare it with what historical fact we do have, it all fits hand in glove. I am not going to argue with you ..If you don't see it, you don't see it. Take care,

TC

 

[Euphemia]

John was given Revelation of the harlot that would kill the saints. Why would John the apostle be show a vision of something that had already happened some 60 years prior? It wouldn't be much of a 'revelation' or prophecy at that point now would it?

Revelation 17 and 18, regarding the activities of the world powers and the "woman" has not taken place yet!

 

[CCW95A]

I like how you didn't continue on where he upbraids the pharisees and asks them who warned them about the wrath to come. You cannot cherry pick the scriptures. John the baptist was handpicked by God- given the power and spirit of Elijah the prophet to and told to go out and prepare the people. He is the one who 'bare witness- which is the same one who received the Revelation from God. You cannot just ignore that fact!

Let's see what else John was shown while 'in the wilderness':


Luk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias
in the wilderness.


Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

John was given Revelation of the harlot that would kill the saints. Why would John the apostle be show a vision of something that had already happened some 60 years prior? It wouldn't be much of a 'revelation' or prophecy at that point now would it?

Again, the PDF spells it out crystal clear and when you compare it with what historical fact we do have, it all fits hand in glove. I am not going to argue with you ..If you don't see it, you don't see it. Take care,

TC

That would be true if the John in Luke, is the same John in Revelations. I do not think they are the same.

 

[The Town Crier]

Remember Jesus,s words concerning John the baptist...

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

John was never in the Kingdom of God, as he lived under the Old Testament, but he did speak about it coming, and that it was at hand. While we find in Revelations....

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

oh boy...

'The kingdom of God cometh not with observation'

Luke 17:21
21 neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.(Jesus words)

Romans 14:17
for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.


John is 'in the kingdom' my friend- anyone who is born again having the Holy Ghost is part of the Kingdom.

TC

 

[The Town Crier]

Revelation 17 and 18, regarding the activities of the world powers and the "woman" has not taken place yet!

Revelation 17 and 18 is all about Jerusalem- 'where our Lord was crucified' unless you are saying Jesus was crucified elsewhere or that he hasn't been yet...

TC

 

[Euphemia]

Revelation 17 and 18 is all about Jerusalem- 'where our Lord was crucified' unless you are saying Jesus was crucified elsewhere or that he hasn't been yet...

TC

No it is not ALL about Jerusalem.

 

[CCW95A]

oh boy...

'The kingdom of God cometh not with observation'

Luke 17:21
21 neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.(Jesus words)

Romans 14:17
for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.


John is 'in the kingdom' my friend- anyone who is born again having the Holy Ghost is part of the Kingdom.

TC

Of course John is in the Kingdom now that Jesus has been raised from the dead. But before that time no one was there besides the Son of Man who was in Heaven with His Father. If John was in the Kingdom before Jesus,s the death then there would have been no need for Jesus to have died.

 

[calvin]

Give us a break, here. "For"---the GREEK, "dia"---means "because of" also, and we know from those reliable extra-biblical sources, that John was exiled to Patmos because of his testimony of Jesus Christ.

You are only regarding the English. Think about that.

διά prep. w. gen. and acc. (Hom.+) (for lit. s. ἀνά, beg.); the fundamental idea that finds expression in this prep. is separation, esp. in the gen., with the gener. sense ‘through’; in the acc. the gener. sense also is ‘through’ (cp. the semantic range in Eng.), but primarily with a causal focus ‘owing to’.

<<Snip>>

② marker of someth. constituting cause
ⓐ the reason why someth. happens, results, exists: because of, for the sake of (do something for the sake of a divinity: UPZ 62, 2 [161 b.c.] διὰ τὸν Σάραπιν; JosAs 1:10 δι᾽ αὐτήν; ApcSed 3:3 διὰ τὸν ἄνθρωπον; Tat. 8:2 διὰ τὸν … Ἄττιν; Ath. 30, 1 διὰ τὴν Δερκετώ) hated because of the name ;
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. 2000. A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. "Based on Walter Bauer's Griechisch-deutsches Wr̲terbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der frhüchristlichen [sic] Literatur, sixth edition, ed. Kurt Aland and Barbara Aland, with Viktor Reichmann and on previous English editions by W.F. Arndt, F.W. Gingrich, and F.W. Danker." (3rd ed.) . University of Chicago Press: Chicago

From the 'Gold standard' of Greek-English lexicons.

Thinking purely Greek, I don't see that 'διά' as used in Rev 1:9 is intended to be understood in the accusative case...it is better understood in the genitive case.
That would tend to force an interpretation that focuses on 'for the sake of (do something for the sake of a divinity')
It is as a result of my studies in Greek that I have arrived at the understanding that I hold.
And you do me a grave injustice in your above judgment.

 

[Heart_for_Christ]

Man, no way John the Baptist was the one who wrote Revelation. Please seek God's face before you start sharing your beliefs. It was John, one of the 12, who wrote it.

 

[Euphemia]

From the 'Gold standard' of Greek-English lexicons.

Thinking purely Greek, I don't see that 'διά' as used in Rev 1:9 is intended to be understood in the accusative case...it is better understood in the genitive case.
That would tend to force an interpretation that focuses on 'for the sake of (do something for the sake of a divinity')
It is as a result of my studies in Greek that I have arrived at the understanding that I hold.
And you do me a grave injustice in your above judgment.

I don't know what you mean, but "dia" in this instance is "because of" because we know that John---the APOSTLE---was in exile on Patmos as part of the persecution he shared with all his brothers and sisters in Christ.

If one wants to make it mean something else, he has every freedom to do so. It doesn't make him right.