That is good to know. Have you considered my question in comment #118?
Learning Genesis
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That is good to know. Have you considered my question in comment #118?
Well, I guess suggest
You must be seeking attention, that's why your here. You are lonely... I never intended to convert you, I don't think apart from a powerful encounter with the Spirit of God, you will ever be converted. I do hope you will soon leave this forum and leave these good people alone. If you would only show them some respect you might find some of them would befriend you and they would be good friends, not like the people who have left you. You know this faith is really seen in some of these people? Now of course some are just off-the -wall, but many of them are good and sincere and it bothers me that you might hurt or damage the faith of these people God loves. Man just move on and find another place to get attention. I bet the muslims would love to hear from you, might even invite you over for a party or something?
Here is the tone of the conversation and my last post;
You must be seeking attention, that's why your here. You are lonely... I never intended to convert you, I don't think apart from a powerful encounter with the Spirit of God, you will ever be converted. I do hope you will soon leave this forum and leave these good people alone. If you would only show them some respect you might find some of them would befriend you and they would be good friends, not like the people who have left you. You know this faith is really seen in some of these people? Now of course some are just off-the -wall, but many of them are good and sincere and it bothers me that you might hurt or damage the faith of these people God loves. Man just move on and find another place to get attention. I bet the muslims would love to hear from you, might even invite you over for a party or something?
Well my knowledge is obviously lacking in such things but I understand that the general opinion is that someone did exist called Jesus and that this person was the subject of many of the bible stories.
I'm not sure if there is any historical proof that links a specific person to actually have been the Jesus as depicted but I suppose my opinion would still be that he did exist.
I'm not sure if there is any historical proof that links a specific person to actually have been the Jesus as depicted but I suppose my opinion would still be that he did exist.
Well, if we are opening the conversation up and getting an idea of the tone, presumably Mitspa won't mind if I put his 3 previous messages here, if so then please remove them. I'm quite happy to copy the entire conversation from both sides on here if you agree?
"Well I think that's just a big con-job, I think you have evil intentions and are full of pride. If your are just "curious" then why "challenge the faith of others? Why not allow they have sincere reasons to believe and not attempt to provoke and belittle their faith?"
"So you are just doing research? Research how you possibly believe that nothing can blow up and make everything? Is that a "demographic" or is that just a sad form of faith? Of course one has to put aside all reason to believe such a silly idea. So what would make you able to understand what and why others believe certain things? You believe this nonsense because that's what you was taught by someone else or because you read it in a book? I believe and have my faith based upon an encounter with the power of God. Who has filled me with His Spirit which bears witness to and in me at all times. Now again I ask you why you come to a forum that represents a God, you say you don't believe is real? Are you so barren of any sort of life or joy that this is your only source of relationship with others? Are you so unkind that others refuse to have you in their life? No you are a sad person and you have no ability to understand your own religion, why pretend you are able to understand mine? You are a lonely person, and have been rejected by those you have tried to love. You are seeking but until you drop this pretense of being intelligent, and being the judge of what others are allowed to believe and think, you will always be alone ."
"Clearly you are not very smart, nothing does not blow-up. This is a matter of just common sense, so you cannot convince me you have intelligence with a belief system like that. And you are for sure a lonely person, broken by those who have forsaken you. Why else would you be so needful of the attention you seek on this forum? I know what it means to hurt and I know what it means to be healed."
"Well I think that's just a big con-job, I think you have evil intentions and are full of pride. If your are just "curious" then why "challenge the faith of others? Why not allow they have sincere reasons to believe and not attempt to provoke and belittle their faith?"
"So you are just doing research? Research how you possibly believe that nothing can blow up and make everything? Is that a "demographic" or is that just a sad form of faith? Of course one has to put aside all reason to believe such a silly idea. So what would make you able to understand what and why others believe certain things? You believe this nonsense because that's what you was taught by someone else or because you read it in a book? I believe and have my faith based upon an encounter with the power of God. Who has filled me with His Spirit which bears witness to and in me at all times. Now again I ask you why you come to a forum that represents a God, you say you don't believe is real? Are you so barren of any sort of life or joy that this is your only source of relationship with others? Are you so unkind that others refuse to have you in their life? No you are a sad person and you have no ability to understand your own religion, why pretend you are able to understand mine? You are a lonely person, and have been rejected by those you have tried to love. You are seeking but until you drop this pretense of being intelligent, and being the judge of what others are allowed to believe and think, you will always be alone ."
"Clearly you are not very smart, nothing does not blow-up. This is a matter of just common sense, so you cannot convince me you have intelligence with a belief system like that. And you are for sure a lonely person, broken by those who have forsaken you. Why else would you be so needful of the attention you seek on this forum? I know what it means to hurt and I know what it means to be healed."
Well, as I stated, I have only one question and that is.........
"Whom do YOU say that Jesus is".
Now, you need to remove the intellectual premise of your thinking. This is not about what you know, or how smart you are.
It is about ONE thing....."Who do you say that Jesus is".
Scientific or historical evidences are not the answer neither are they required. It is however well know historically that a man named Jesus actually lived.
Historians routinely cite Herodotus as a key source of information. He wrote from 488 B.C. to 428 B.C. and the earliest copy of his work comes from 900 A.D. (1,300 years later). There are only eight known copies of his work.
By contrast, the New Testament of the Bible (with all its information about Jesus) was written between 40 A.D. and 100 A.D. The earliest known copy is from 130 A.D. and there are 5,000 known copies in Greek, 10,000 in Latin and 9,300 in other languages.
I know that you have not read the Bible but ignorance at this stage of your life is not going to fly.
Still, to put to rest the notion that there is no historic and scientific proof of Jesus outside the Bible, we may look to Jewish historian Flavius Josephus and to Roman historian Carius Cornelius Tacitus - both well known and accepted.
Josephus, in the book Jewish Antiquities" wrote:
"At that time lived Jesus, a wise man, if he may be called a man; for he performed many wonderful works. He was a teacher of such men as received the truth with pleasure. . . .And when Pilate, at the instigation of the chief men among us, had condemned him to the cross, they who before had conceived an affection for him did not cease to adhere to him. For on the third day he appeared to them alive again, the divine prophets having foretold these and many other wonderful things concerning him. And the sect of the Christians, so called from him, subsists at this time" (Antiquities, Book 18, Chapter 3, Section 1).
Tacitus, in writing about accusations that Nero burned the city of Rome and blamed it on Christians, said the following:
". . .Nero procured others to be accused, and inflicted exquisite punishment upon those people, who were in abhorrence for their crimes, and were commonly known by the name of Christians. They had their denomination from Christus (Christ, dm.), who in the reign of Tibertius was put to death as a criminal by the procurator Pontius Pilate. . . .At first they were only apprehended who confessed themselves of that sect; afterwards a vast multitude discovered by them, all of which were condemned, not so much for the crime of burning the city, as for their enmity to mankind. . . ." (Tacitus, Annals, 15, 44).
NOW........back to the original question....Whom do you say that Jesus is????
Well right now, I can only describe him as an historical figure (as you eloquently describe). I'm not being evasive, I simply don't have a link between Jesus and a god because I don't believe in the latter. You must see that I can't put any other attributes to Jesus because of that?
Read the book More than a Carpenter. There is more proof of Jesus and the New Testament than any other historical book.
Well that's why this is a "Christian" forum and why we who do believe, have come to this forum. See its kinda like going to KFC and being upset that they are serving chicken? Is it KFC that is in error? Or is it the one who went to KFC and is upset with the chicken being served?
I understand that you believe and I accept that you believe. I am different to you, I don't believe. You must understand that not everyone is the same as you Mitspa? If you are not able to accept that then I worry about you. If you want to live life in a bubble of only those that think the same as you do then you close off all opportunity to see a different opinion, I'm not inclined that way.
I don't go to KFC and expect anything other than chicken but sometimes I like to go to a restaurant that serves food I have never tried before because I want to get a taste of it. I want to see what attracts people to different food even if I find it doesn't taste good to me.
@TubbyTubby what are you hoping to get from being here?
I don't know.
This is a "Christian" forum. It is a designed "bubble" and we come to this forums because it does present a certain bubble and allows us to discuss our faith without the ridicule of those who do not believe. This is not a complicated idea, a "Christian" forum is designed to draw Christians, just as KFC is a place to eat chicken. Why go to KFC and act upset that others are eating chicken or they do not have Big macs on the menu?
What lead you to come here?
The only one I've seen upset was you Mitspa...
"Ridicule" is something I try not to strive for.
To use a recent analogy, 'to see what people eat in other restaurants'.
Well that's your opinion, and I accept that you have many opinions that I disagree with. But we have come to this "Christian" forum as Christians.. and I expect that you will not ridicule me for my faith and I know I will not ridicule your faith.
I could search out some of your post, and show you why I believe you do practice this. I must say that you have been careful the last few days to not make those same mistakes, but I believe that your intentions are the same.
Welcome to the restaurant, my name is Ryan and I will be your waiter for the rest of the evening. Forgive the previous waiter for his rudeness, however; he cannot be fired as he has protection from the union. At this restaurant is a wide array of choices from the menu, and feel free to inquire about each item as I would be more than happy to describe each item in detail before you place your order. I do have a policy though, No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service. If you can abide by those, all will be well. So anything on the menu that is catching your attention? IF you don't like any of the items, enjoy the complimentary cup of tea.
Why no shoes? why not allow me to order from another restaurants menu? I think I will get upset! Am I wrong or is the restaurant?
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