Wow tubby that's a very fair and reasonable statement... And it harms or offends no ones faith...thank you
Learning Genesis
- Thread starter TubbyTubby
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So because you've heard it all your life, it's proof enough to believe it? I'm not trying to be smart, but to provoke you to analyse what and why you believe it.
The only place it says such a thing are the scriptures.
It does not have to be those 3.
That was a compliment my friend. Or at least was intended to be. You are correct that you never said that you were and I never said that you did, now did I?
Now then.........when we consider the way things happened historically with Jesus, it seems to me that he has to be one of those 3.
A liar, a lunatic or the Lord.
Again.......which one to you claim that He was?
It seems as if this is turning out to be a really hard question for you to answer.
But that is not what He was, now is it. Carpentry is a profession that He did, but whom do you say that He really is?
Wouldn't you have to read the Bible to know this or at least "believe" what someone who read the Bible said to you?
Isn't that "faith".
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Yeah but faith as the Bible defines it is not a mental choice to believe in something ethereal you cannot or have not known. It is a trusting in, relying on, a cleaving to something or someone. This language speaks in terms of tangibles...things that can and are known (albeit not to all)....
To understand faith being the substance of things hoped for you must understand "hope" as well. This hope is not a wishful desire for something we would like to have or happen, it is an eager expectation of that which we know is already there for which we await. And though there is much you do not see, much of which science may even discover in the next century, are things if I told you about them now you would say I'm crazy...but alas is that not the testimony of science? Discovering what was hithertofore unknown and unknowable?
Who knew, 200 years ago , that there were living beings unseen by the human eye that could cause illness? How many before the Christian, Louis Pasteur, believed these invisible (at the time) life forms could kill a man or make him insane? In the next century, quantum physics will prove the existence of other dimensionalities (some probably having life forms...the ancients may have called them spirits and their realms heavens) simultaneously existing with our own. Perhaps they may even transverse these dimensions. Some in those have transversed into ours, that I have 100% confidence in. Thus faith becomes the evidence of things unseen. But you may not be ready to know there are other types of beings you cannot see or have ever seen (but I have...and I saw them as an agnostic who did not believe in such things...it totally tore down my previously science only basis for understanding reality)!
brother Paul
Yeah but faith as the Bible defines it is not a mental choice to believe in something ethereal you cannot or have not known. It is a trusting in, relying on, a cleaving to something or someone. This language speaks in terms of tangibles...things that can and are known (albeit not to all)....
To understand faith being the substance of things hoped for you must understand "hope" as well. This hope is not a wishful desire for something we would like to have or happen, it is an eager expectation of that which we know is already there for which we await. And though there is much you do not see, much of which science may even discover in the next century, are things if I told you about them now you would say I'm crazy...but alas is that not the testimony of science? Discovering what was hithertofore unknown and unknowable?
Who knew, 200 years ago , that there were living beings unseen by the human eye that could cause illness? How many before the Christian, Louis Pasteur, believed these invisible (at the time) life forms could kill a man or make him insane? In the next century, quantum physics will prove the existence of other dimensionalities (some probably having life forms...the ancients may have called them spirits and their realms heavens) simultaneously existing with our own. Perhaps they may even transverse these dimensions. Some in those have transversed into ours, that I have 100% confidence in. Thus faith becomes the evidence of things unseen. But you may not be ready to know there are other types of beings you cannot see or have ever seen (but I have...and I saw them as an agnostic who did not believe in such things...it totally tore down my previously science only basis for understanding reality)!
brother Paul
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I can certainly see how that could happen.
It is a difficult question to answer and I've tried to explain why.
I said that Jesus was probably a deeply religious son of a carpenter. That is based on common opinion as far as I know. I have no positive proof of that, so can't be certain. Faith does not come into it for me.
I KNOW that Steve Gerrard plays for Liverpool football club. I can only give a guess about who Jesus was and my answer above is my best guess.
So you do not trust history? 1st century gravemarkers in Jerusalem, Bethany, and elsewhere show alive at the time people at least believed He was the Lord, Messiah, and that He had risen from the dead....one that disinterested Jewish Archaeologist Sukinek discovered calls Him our l'shelem (He who completes the transaction)....now being Jerusalem in the mid-first century that would mean many of these people witnessed the events. It is compelling to say the least, in light of the fact that in the process we also discovered supporting evidence (like the tombs of Ciaphas, Mary, Martha, Lazarus and more)
In His love
brother Paul
lol! I do wish
Tubby you are respectful and honest. I am really enjoying this thread.
I must be the only crazy one here - not asking Tubby who Jesus was/is when he doesn't know who God is. He (Tubby) asks to go over Genesis and he gets told to jump to the New Testament.
So Tubby, my understanding of Genesis is that God created the universe and on the 6th day He created man (and woman). Adam and Eve lived in a paradisical place called Eden, where there were two trees, specifically mentioned: the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This last tree was the one rule they were given: don't eat the fruit or you die. Satan as serpent talked Eve into eating from the tree, telling her she would be like God. She talked Adam into eating as well. Then they hid when God came to visit. This is called Original Sin - disobedience to God. Adam and Eve both failed to admit responsibility. Because the tree of Life was in Eden, they got kicked out. To boot, God put a curse on the ground/earth. This Original Sin caused mortality of the flesh - handed down to all humankind. I left a bunch of stuff out for these first few chapters (for instance -God made us in His image which I take to mean our souls). I could write a few more pages but I detest doing long posts. But at the rate we're going here, we will never get to the begats, nevermind, the New Testament, where we get the cure for original sin - and all sin, past, present, and future.
Still want to hear more about that mist and no rain...grumble, grumble..mumbles "horse before the cart."
So Tubby, my understanding of Genesis is that God created the universe and on the 6th day He created man (and woman). Adam and Eve lived in a paradisical place called Eden, where there were two trees, specifically mentioned: the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This last tree was the one rule they were given: don't eat the fruit or you die. Satan as serpent talked Eve into eating from the tree, telling her she would be like God. She talked Adam into eating as well. Then they hid when God came to visit. This is called Original Sin - disobedience to God. Adam and Eve both failed to admit responsibility. Because the tree of Life was in Eden, they got kicked out. To boot, God put a curse on the ground/earth. This Original Sin caused mortality of the flesh - handed down to all humankind. I left a bunch of stuff out for these first few chapters (for instance -God made us in His image which I take to mean our souls). I could write a few more pages but I detest doing long posts. But at the rate we're going here, we will never get to the begats, nevermind, the New Testament, where we get the cure for original sin - and all sin, past, present, and future.
Still want to hear more about that mist and no rain...grumble, grumble..mumbles "horse before the cart."
Well there it is my friend.
YOU have stated that you have not read the Bible.
YOU have stated that you do not believe in God.
You see, the problem here is that you are claiming something that you know nothing about. NO ONE can reject something that he has no knowledge about.
But what YOU do know as well as I and every single person on this forum you have talked to is that YOU are a sinner just like WE all are.
Romans 3:23
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God"!
The only way for anyone to be healed of their SIN SICKNESS is to have the shed blood of the Lord Jesus cleanse them and make them acceptable to God. There is no other way by which a man be saved than the Lord Jesus Christ.
We can philosophize it, we can deny it, we can excuse it, we can play with it, we can talk about it but it, SIN will always take you farther than you want to go.
You either read about Steve or somehow learned of his life.
YOU have learned about Jesus on this forum. But you already knew about Jesus. You know what Christmas is. YOU know what Easter is. YOU have enough information to know as much about Jesus as you did Steve. But that does not matter at all.
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God"..........because we can not live up to the standard of God which is the Lord Jesus Christ.
But Silk.....Jesus is God and it was Jesus who is actually the Creator of all things. As Christians here, we (Me) find it virtually impossible to talk about God without including in the conversation that Jesus is that God who Created all things.
lol! I do wish
Tubby you are respectful and honest. I am really enjoying this thread.
Yes he is. I readily agree with that comment.
Fine with me.
Colossians 1:16
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him."
"Him" here is a reference to Christ in verse #14-16. The word "created" is a past tense word and tells us of a work of completion. Creation stands created and permanent. As we see in Genesis, the universe is a Christ-centric completion which transends all Gnostic philosophy.
This verse in Colossians supports John 1:1-4 in that Paul agrees that Christ existed before creation ans He is the great "I AM" of Exodus. The Jehovah of the Old Test. is the Jesus of the New Test and because of Him, ALL things are now held together.
Without the Lord Jesus, all things would fall apart. It is my opinion that He, Christ is the LIGHT that was shinning before He created the sun in Genesis 1.
Because of Christ, we have a cosmos instead of chaos!!!!
Silk, consider this please. The atheist and agnostic can use those high and eloquent words all they want to, to say that they do not know God. I for one do not believe that for a second. Tubby certainly knows who God is. He also knows who Jesus is.
There is a difference between actually not knowing and rejection. He does know but has made a choice to reject the person of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
He is exactly what we all are/were.......SINNERS, dead and depraved in our sin, doomed and destined for hell.
God who is rich in mercy and grace, knowing exactly what we are, supplied a way for our sins to be removed so that we can one day stand in the presence of a holy God. That cure is Jesus Christ. He is the one and only cure for the sickness that besets us all..........
SIN.
@TubbyTubby
I saw in previous posts, you have inquired about Jesus, and have questions about even his existence, and if he did exist, was he really who he said he was. What’s interesting is Jews have been asking the same question for nearly 2000 years. Was Jesus really the Son of God? The majority of Jews have so far rejected Jesus as the Messiah, and believe the New Testament is mostly blasphemous. Yet, in their very own bible, Jesus is all over their scriptures. You just need to know how to look for him. If the universe he created is awesome and unimaginable, so must his word, or the Holy Scriptures. I will attempt to show you Jesus was there from the very beginning.
Here are the first 7 words of Genesis in the Hebrew. Hebrew reads right to left. I am no Hebrew expert or scholar by any means, but to use a mechanical term, you can say each letter, word or phrase is akin to an automobile engine. It is made up of many parts, and you can tear it apart to see what it looks like inside. That’s what is unique about the Hebrew language, it is very concrete versus English or Greek that has many abstract terms and vocabulary. Each letter has a meaning to it and had its own picture in the ancient pictograph of what was seen with the natural eye.
בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ
As you can see, Genesis 1:1 is made up of 7 words, and I want you to get a picture of a menorah in your head with each word making up one candlestick each. Menorahs have 7 candlesticks by the way.
Revelation 1:12-13 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man,
John 1:1-3;14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of lthe only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
So if Jesus was the Word, and he was from the beginning, we should be able to see him from the very foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:8-9 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Job 38:4-7 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Isa 28:16 therefore so says the Lord Jehovah, Behold, I place in Zion a Stone for a foundation, a tried Stone, a precious Cornerstone, a sure Foundation;
Eph 2:19-20 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Kind of getting the picture? If Jesus was the cornerstone, the bible the Jewish people use has the chief cornerstone right smack dab in the beginning. I will attempt to show you in an upcoming post using the Hebrew language. If the bible is true, it truly is the most awesome book ever inspired as nobody could ever construct a book in this way.
I saw in previous posts, you have inquired about Jesus, and have questions about even his existence, and if he did exist, was he really who he said he was. What’s interesting is Jews have been asking the same question for nearly 2000 years. Was Jesus really the Son of God? The majority of Jews have so far rejected Jesus as the Messiah, and believe the New Testament is mostly blasphemous. Yet, in their very own bible, Jesus is all over their scriptures. You just need to know how to look for him. If the universe he created is awesome and unimaginable, so must his word, or the Holy Scriptures. I will attempt to show you Jesus was there from the very beginning.
Here are the first 7 words of Genesis in the Hebrew. Hebrew reads right to left. I am no Hebrew expert or scholar by any means, but to use a mechanical term, you can say each letter, word or phrase is akin to an automobile engine. It is made up of many parts, and you can tear it apart to see what it looks like inside. That’s what is unique about the Hebrew language, it is very concrete versus English or Greek that has many abstract terms and vocabulary. Each letter has a meaning to it and had its own picture in the ancient pictograph of what was seen with the natural eye.
בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ
As you can see, Genesis 1:1 is made up of 7 words, and I want you to get a picture of a menorah in your head with each word making up one candlestick each. Menorahs have 7 candlesticks by the way.
Revelation 1:12-13 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man,
John 1:1-3;14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of lthe only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
So if Jesus was the Word, and he was from the beginning, we should be able to see him from the very foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:8-9 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Job 38:4-7 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Isa 28:16 therefore so says the Lord Jehovah, Behold, I place in Zion a Stone for a foundation, a tried Stone, a precious Cornerstone, a sure Foundation;
Eph 2:19-20 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Kind of getting the picture? If Jesus was the cornerstone, the bible the Jewish people use has the chief cornerstone right smack dab in the beginning. I will attempt to show you in an upcoming post using the Hebrew language. If the bible is true, it truly is the most awesome book ever inspired as nobody could ever construct a book in this way.
I know I am coming in really late, so I will have to just comment on a few verses, but everything in the bible is spiritual. God is spiritual. Just as matter comes from energy, so does the "good" from God come from energy. When God says something is good he has actually used the energy of good to create it. God's energy comes from His own faith in what he is doing. God has no doubt in what He does, like the creation He did not doubt in making it, thus it is good. God takes a void and emptiness and because He manifests from love, because God is love, His manifestations are good.
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