Liberal Christians?

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Mitspa said:
Yes of course these wicked people are intent on spreading wickedness where and when they can. I have not heard of this book but its clear there is a homosexual agenda and its intention is to pervert the church and has in many places those groups that are not submitted to the Holy Spirit and sound doctrine in the Grace of God.
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If I didn't know you I would assume that this is a joke post.
Homosexuality isn't contagious. Even if it was, we should be inviting the people into the church with open arms instead of assuming they are out to destroy us. I've never met a homosexual person that is against the church. They just don't like the bigoted people that go there, and I can't say I blame them.

We let convicted felons in our churches and adulterers and gossips, yet we are so homophobic that we don't even want people of different orientations to be saved. We'd rather them rot because of something they can't even help while not saying a word about the pastor screwing some 22 year old girl or the kids in the youth group having sex or all the people in the church that are actually supported when it comes to getting divorced and remarried. It's hypocritical.
 
Huntingteckel said:
If I didn't know you I would assume that this is a joke post.
Homosexuality isn't contagious. Even if it was, we should be inviting the people into the church with open arms instead of assuming they are out to destroy us. I've never met a homosexual person that is against the church. They just don't like the bigoted people that go there, and I can't say I blame them.

We let convicted felons in our churches and adulterers and gossips, yet we are so homophobic that we don't even want people of different orientations to be saved. We'd rather them rot because of something they can't even help while not saying a word about the pastor screwing some 22 year old girl or the kids in the youth group having sex or all the people in the church that are actually supported when it comes to getting divorced and remarried. It's hypocritical.
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Whats so hard to understand, do we invite the convicted felon to come a promote his criminal ways? I say let all sinners come and let all sinners renouce and turn from sin...not attempt to promote their wickedness.
 
Mitspa said:
Whats so hard to understand, do we invite the convicted felon to come a promote his criminal ways? I say let all sinners come and let all sinners renouce and turn from sin...not attempt to promote their wickedness.
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You invite them in and let God work out what needs to be worked out and you pray for them. Plenty of people that sit in church every Sunday wallow in their wickedness Friday and Saturday night so I don't see the difference.
 
Huntingteckel said:
You invite them in and let God work out what needs to be worked out and you pray for them. Plenty of people that sit in church every Sunday wallow in their wickedness Friday and Saturday night so I don't see the difference.
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The difference is that sin is never promoted or upheld, and if there are members in a church that is living an ungodly lifestyle and this knowledge comes to the leaders of the church? Its the responsibility of the leadership to challenge them in that sin and correct them according the truth of Gods word.
 
We ought to remember two things:

1) To care for someone means to not condone certain things they do.

2) it's not judgmental to acknowledge certain acts as sinful.

Some probably disagree with me in here regarding HOW someone can be gay or even what it literally means to be gay; example:

Gay, to some, means having gay relationships, promiscuity, or even just gay lustfulness in their minds. Though I'd argue that these are the conscious decisions of someone who is gay, but to be gay means to literally have attraction for the same gender, even if they are 100% chaste and intentionally try to say away from gay thoughts.

Science has concludes many times that homosexuality is a neurological abnormality that begins in the womb. A male fetus is treated as a foreign object in the womb because female is the default gender, so when a female becomes male, the body naturally releases female hormones to the male fetus...but sometimes, an over-abundance of these hormones get released and the fetus develops feminine qualities.

Just as I didn't choose to be straight, I was naturally born that way, homosexuals were born gay too...but that doesn't mean it's now OK and they can do what they want...in fact, it doesn't even mean they ought go pursue faithful romantic relationships because it still interjects God's blueprint for marriage, and relationships are designed to lead to marriage.

So the answer for someone who is gay is to devote himself to God (as we all must do) and live his life chaste.

Edit:
As as Christian, I've noticed two sad extremes when approaching homosexuality...1) Many Christians recognize homosexuality as neurological but then fall for the cultural rhetoric that it's ok, that Sodom and Gomorrah were only about abuse, and that it's ok to be gay as long as they approach relationships the way God does for straight couples...but this is wrong. 2) Many Christians who genuinely know that homosexuality is wrong go to the other extreme of directing their annoyance with the culture's push for if toward gay people a bit unfairly. Many refuse to consider that the only choice a gay person has are his actions--they demand that his neurological system is also choice. This might be the most aggregious, they refuse to treat them as fellow human beings, made in the likeness of God. The reason why this is also so stressful is because I've met Christian after Christian who says "They are people and deserve love" and then when put to the test, it's 100% attack and not just on the sin, but on the person.

Gay people are some of the people who ESPECIALLY need evangelism, and unless recognition of the sin and recognition of their humanity is taken into sincere account, these people are going down the path of damnation, and it breaks my heart.
 
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Science has not concluded these things, some who have a gay agenda have used false science to excuse and promote this sin. This is just another lie! I guess all perverts has some over active chemical that excuses there behavior? Even if this sickness exsist in some? Big "if" it should not be promoted as an acceptable weakness and should be treated to overcome this perversion.
 
Mitspa said:
Science has not concluded these things, some who have a gay agenda have used false science to excuse and promote this sin. This is just another lie! I guess all perverts has some over active chemical that excuses there behavior? Even if this sickness exsist in some? Big "if" it should not be promoted as an acceptable weakness and should be treated to overcome this perversion.
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Friend, you've missed the point. Science has concluded the makeup of their minds, not their actions. I agree 100% that what they DO should not be promoted at all. Not even in thought.

Also, I made an edit to my response...see the rest of it.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
Friend, you've missed the point. Science has concluded the makeup of their minds, not their actions. I agree 100% that what they DO should not be promoted at all.

Also, I made an edit to my response...see the rest of it.
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No to quote that science has proven these people are "born" gay is to accept a lie promoted by certain groups that are set to promote this sin at any cost...I agree with your post in large part but to accept this one lie, is a great error. Do some research on this issue and dont just accept the gay propaganda.
 
Mitspa said:
No to quote that science has proven these people are "born" gay is to accept a lie promoted by certain groups that are set to promote this sin at any cost...I agree with your post in large part but to accept this one lie, is a great error. Do some research on this issue and dont just accept the gay propaganda.
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I don't think they have solid proof of it, but they have evidence for it. It's reasonable to consider that it is neurological. Again, that doesn't mean accepting homosexuality, it just means accepting human struggle, but this one being specific...or rather, accepting it as a disability, which I think it can be. And when I say a disability, I don't mean the act--that's a blatant sin--I mean the way origin.

The best example I can give isn't perfect, but I think it will still be coherent...

Take a recovering alcoholic for example...he gets tempted when he sees someone else drinking, when he goes to some restaurants, and when he in fact has to stay away from bars or certain environments otherwise te temptation will be too great for him to handle.

It's not a sin for this recovering alcoholic to be struggling if he has made the decision to do the right thing.

The only flaw in this comparison is that alcoholics have begun with a sin which lead go the disease. Homosexuals, if it is indeed neurological, began with the disease. But the sin lies in how they choose to respond to if. If they say yes, then it's a real problem. If they say no, then they are doing the right thing.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
I don't think they have solid proof of it, but they have evidence for it. It's reasonable to consider that it is neurological. Again, that doesn't mean accepting homosexuality, it just means accepting human struggle, but this one being specific...or rather, accepting it as a disability, which I think it can be. And when I say a disability, I don't mean the act--that's a blatant sin--I mean the way origin.

The best example I can give isn't perfect, but I think it will still be coherent...

Take a recovering alcoholic for example...he gets tempted when he sees someone else drinking, when he goes to some restaurants, and when he in fact has to stay away from bars or certain environments otherwise te temptation will be too great for him to handle.

It's not a sin for this recovering alcoholic to be struggling if he has made the decision to do the right thing.

The only flaw in this comparison is that alcoholics have begun with a sin which lead go the disease. Homosexuals, if it is indeed neurological, began with the disease. But the sin lies in how they choose to respond to if. If they say yes, then it's a real problem. If they say no, then they are doing the right thing.
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Well you must understand that there is a powerful agenda at work to find the "gay" gene..etc.. and they have already been caught in several lies and false attempts to promote these things. They come out with this half-baked science and then when other ,more responsible and honest people look into their work they find they are not presenting honest sceince but agenda driven science. They broadcast these lies all over the world and media and people accept these things and never hear the truth that is later published that defeat these falsehoods that have been promoted.
 
Mitspa said:
Well you must understand that there is a powerful agenda at work to find the "gay" gene..etc.. and they have already been caught in several lies and false attempts to promote these things. They come out with this half-baked science and then when other ,more responsible and honest people look into their work they find they are not presenting honest sceince but agenda driven science. They broadcast these lies all over the world and media and people accept these things and never hear the truth that is later published that defeat these falsehoods that have been promoted.
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It's true that many have done this...but that doesn't mean every instance of this has been a lie...some have been sound theories.

But whether it remains only theory or becomes proof, a gay gene, for example, is not a reason for homosexuality to be permitted. It is not an excuse to sin--and sadly many people think it is. It's clearly not. As humans, we have a natural lustful response to things, but just because it's something we have doesn't mean it's acceptable to follow through with it. Our hearts remain stained with sin, but that doesn't make of ok.
 
Mitspa said:
Whats so hard to understand, do we invite the convicted felon to come a promote his criminal ways? I say let all sinners come and let all sinners renouce and turn from sin...not attempt to promote their wickedness.
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Your problem is you don't understand that homosexuality isn't what you do, it's what you are. A felon wouldn't be a felon if he didn't commit felonies. A homosexual will always be a homosexual even if he/she lives a completely abstinent life. And you are calling them all filthy demon-possessed perverts. It has been demonstrated to you several times now that bringing them to Jesus isn't going to stop them from being homosexuals, the voluntary closure of Exodus International is proof positive of that. You leave the homosexual person with no options at all to escape your hateful words.

The biggest irony of all is that the Christian person is supposed to be all about love, and love is what you would deny these people. I think that is possibly the worst thing I have ever heard.
 
I live in one of the most Liberal cities in the world and not far from the gay district of DuPont Circle. The agenda is real, the rhetoric is loud, and any opposing position means you're a homophobic bigot...it's sad.

But no matter anyone's behavior or perspective, their is an objective truth, and it is that sin is wrong and Christ's love for everyone, gay or straight, is 100% real.
 
Mitspa said:
Well you must understand that there is a powerful agenda at work to find the "gay" gene..etc.. and they have already been caught in several lies and false attempts to promote these things. They come out with this half-baked science and then when other ,more responsible and honest people look into their work they find they are not presenting honest sceince but agenda driven science. They broadcast these lies all over the world and media and people accept these things and never hear the truth that is later published that defeat these falsehoods that have been promoted.
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Do you realize that you sound like a conspiracy theorist with all your talk? Listen to yourself - "lies," "agendas," "THEM," "they have been caught," etc.? Why is it so hard for you to believe that the scientists and mental health experts are RIGHT? Why do you want and need to believe that one-tenth of the population are wicked and evil and are only doing this because they want to stick it to God? It has NOTHING to do with that. Ask any gay person if they fell in love because they wanted to hurt God. You'll find that God probably never even entered their minds at all, they did what everyone does - fell in love with someone naturally.
 
Mitspa said:
No to quote that science has proven these people are "born" gay is to accept a lie promoted by certain groups that are set to promote this sin at any cost...I agree with your post in large part but to accept this one lie, is a great error. Do some research on this issue and dont just accept the gay propaganda.
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And where are you getting YOUR research from? Actual scientists and mental health experts? How many science links have been thrown at you now and how many of them have you rejected because you didn't like the truth? No one is out to "promote sin," they are out to live their lives free of the kind of hate you are peddling here.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Do you realize that you sound like a conspiracy theorist with all your talk? Listen to yourself - "lies," "agendas," "THEM," "they have been caught," etc.? Why is it so hard for you to believe that the scientists and mental health experts are RIGHT? Why do you want and need to believe that one-tenth of the population are wicked and evil and are only doing this because they want to stick it to God? It has NOTHING to do with that. Ask any gay person if they fell in love because they wanted to hurt God. You'll find that God probably never even entered their minds at all, they did what everyone does - fell in love with someone naturally.
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Yes thats what evil people do to promote more evil.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Do you realize that you sound like a conspiracy theorist with all your talk? Listen to yourself - "lies," "agendas," "THEM," "they have been caught," etc.? Why is it so hard for you to believe that the scientists and mental health experts are RIGHT? Why do you want and need to believe that one-tenth of the population are wicked and evil and are only doing this because they want to stick it to God? It has NOTHING to do with that. Ask any gay person if they fell in love because they wanted to hurt God. You'll find that God probably never even entered their minds at all, they did what everyone does - fell in love with someone naturally.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with conspiracy theories, but I understand that you want to go strictly by what we know as sound. But going off of that, I don't think there's anything wrong with recognizing agendas as existing. I agree with Mitspa that there is an agenda that the culture is pushing for. We see it everyday and we've seen it in history (though this is a new twist on it).

I don't mind looking toward what science suggests...I'm not a scientist, I'm a layman, but I'm also a Christian -- so no matter what science says, there is still an objective theological truth. I always back up science because science is a good, valid institution, but science can't measure certain things, including theology or morality. This is why no matter what science says, the moral truth is that the vocation of marriage is designed within God's blueprint alone, and we have to honor that. It's not a means of excluding people, but extending God's love.
 
Mitspa said:
Well you must understand that there is a powerful agenda at work to find the "gay" gene..etc.. and they have already been caught in several lies and false attempts to promote these things. They come out with this half-baked science and then when other ,more responsible and honest people look into their work they find they are not presenting honest sceince but agenda driven science. They broadcast these lies all over the world and media and people accept these things and never hear the truth that is later published that defeat these falsehoods that have been promoted.
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The APA and virtually all psychologists agree that a person has little control over his or her orientation and that there doesn't appear to be much correlation between environmental factors and the development of orientation. Though both homosexual and heterosexual orientations probably developed at puberty not birth.

Though to be fair tendencies being out of ones control does not necessarily permit the deed. Some people develope a high sexuality but that does not mean they can engage in promiscuity. Likewise some people are asexual.

What I most have a problem with is people refusing to actually learn the medical research and instead cosigning a behavior they don't understand to 'demon possession'.
 
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