Life-Death Curse-Blessing God is or is not in Control (long) ; )

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OK neighbor. It is not what you say, it is what Scripture says. The lord gives us choices only because He can, because He is in absolute control.. You can't see this?
Gen 18:14 Is anything too hard for the LORD? At the appointed time I will return to you, about this time next year, and Sarah shall have a son."
Do you think the Lord had His fingers crossed hoping to man that nothing would go wrong in the mean time?...
Menopause, impotence, all these possibilities and hundreds more, that are so obviously beyond the Lord's control, not.:rolleyes:
 
calvin said:
OK neighbor. It is not what you say, it is what Scripture says. The lord gives us choices only because He can, because He is in absolute control.. You can't see this?
Gen 18:14 Is anything too hard for the LORD? At the appointed time I will return to you, about this time next year, and Sarah shall have a son."
Do you think the Lord had His fingers crossed hoping to man that nothing would go wrong in the mean time?...
Menopause, impotence, all these possibilities and hundreds more, that are so obviously beyond the Lord's control.:rolleyes:
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Now how about giving me a real reason to believe what you say is in scripture...
Regardless what your buddy says, Deut 30 is very much a part of us as any one in the past.
If we go off of your thinking then,,,,,,,God is killing babies in tornados....God is in control of everything so why put the man in jail for rape and killing. God is in control so God must have wanted this huh ? Thats what you are saying........

So if you lose your temper in here like you have in the past then that was the will of God for you and all of us ? With your thinking it would have to be because God is in total control of everything...
 
calvin said:
OK neighbor, if you want to question God's word, that is on you.
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Kalvin it is not that I am questioning Gods word. It is the fact that you are not giving me any real scriptures to back what you are saying.
Example Your scriptures that you used

As James also taught under the guidance of the Holy Spirit
Jas 4:12There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
Jas 4:13Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit"—
Jas 4:14yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
Jas 4:15Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that."
Jas 4:16As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

Kalvin not ONE of them says anything about God being in control of things but they do speak of how we should not boast in our own plans and desires.
Brother there is a whole lot of evil in this world and God is not causing this evil so He can not be in total control of everything here on earth....

Also Psalm 115:16KJV
The Heaven, even the Heavens, are the LORDS, BUT the earth hath He given to the children of men. In Heaven God is in Total Control. That is why there is No Crime, Poverty, Sickness, or any other evil thing. Now here on earth there is evil ruining rampant

So Brother you have a very wonderful day and Please enjoy the day that the Lord has given you and I shal check back tonight and perhaps when others begin to reply you will once again join in.
Blessings and Love Brother(y)
See you later
Jim
 
calvin said:
Well said brother,...with the possible exception of using the phrase "the discipline of Grace" Of course I know what you mean by that but there will be some who can not see it.
The whole problem boils down to if God is in control.
The answer is most emphatically 'YES".
Now consider this: I am not in control, so I am not in a position to promise anybody anything.
As James also taught under the guidance of the Holy Spirit
Jas 4:12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
Jas 4:13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit"—
Jas 4:14 yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
Jas 4:15 Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that."
Jas 4:16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

So it is manifestly true, that though we are given some freedom of choice, because the Lord is in absolute control at all times, He is able to instruct us on the consequences of our free choices.
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Well said calvin.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Major Greetings,
I agree we are under "Grace" However this does not in any way make the what our Creator said in Deuteronomy 30:10-20 null or void. The point of the OP was showing How God is NOT in control of everything that happens to ALL people here in this earth.
The fact that you claim this is not for us today and use grace as an example is very strange to say the least.

Not to mention when you say ((( I need to make it clear however that this is not the principle upon which God deals with us today. God deals with us today on the principle of grace. Oh yes, there is obedience, but it is obedience accomplished by the discipline of grace.)))

Discipline of Grace ? Are you kidding me ? As to your saying that Deuteronomy 30:10-20 was in the way that God dealt with ((Israel when they prepared to cross over Jordan.)) and NOT for us toady because of Grace........

Brother your entire take of this is different. Grace does not stop how God said to live and what to expect BUT it does help us do so.
This entire post was about God not being in total control of everything here on earth.
The examples given show just that. Now then how does your reply fit into that ?

Any way thank you for your view and opinion brother....
Have a blessed week
<>< ><>
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Jim......as for your op and its purpose, I took you at YOUR words in it when you said...........
"There seems to always be this debate over things such as sickness and healing and God is or is not in Control of Everything. Why does bad things happen to good people and God uses sickness and suffering to teach us things or God uses the devil or allows the devil to attack a Christian to instruct them and such."

That was your 1st paragraph and clearly your are equating sickness and suffering with disobedience and what the devil does to us.

So what I said would of course be different than what you were saying. All I did was to properly and correctly explain that how God dealt with Israel in Deut. is NOT how He deals with us today. NOW IF YOU want to believe that God works in the way you explained......no problem at all for me and that is your choice to believe. Personally I am going to stick with the GIFT of Gods grace because I know that I am a saved sinner and because of that I continually disobey God. That is when He deals with me in grace and not punishment for disobedience.

Jim, the Abrahmic covenant was a relationship and a special promise between God and his people. The book of Deuteronomy refers to the that covenant 26 times. You asked that we read Deut. 28 and when we do we see the Israelites could show that they were God’s people and they did that when they obeyed his commandments.

Today we have to trust Jesus in order to be part of the new covenant. To trust Jesus means that first we have to confess our sins because we are all sinners and sin separates us from God. Then God will forgive us and that is the process of GRACE.
We do not get what we deserve!!!

God told the Israelites in Deut. 28 to obey his laws and be blessed or disobey and be cursed. Do YOU live like that today????
Is that what you expect our God to do to you when you say something or think something you should not have said or done???
Jim.....that would in fact be salvation by works and not of GRACE. We obey and God blesses us and saves us. That is NOT what the Bible teaches us brother.

As Christians we must show our faith by what we do. James 2:14-26 tells us about that. We are saved by grace and kept that way by grace.

The obedience that we do will not give salvation to us. But it is evidence that we are obeying God.

And YES, God is in control. That should not be in question to anyone who has believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

You have a wonderful worship day at your church today and may God bless you.
 
Cturtle said:
Hi Major,

One question if i may.......given all that you said, what about the fact that we are grafted into the promise that God gave Abraham? We are fellow heirs with Abraham, the Bible says partakers. So if we are heirs, then we are able to receive the blessings of Abraham don't you agree?
Thanks and God bless you in all that you do!
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Gal. 3:16.......
"Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ."

That means that the promise looked forward to the one desendant of Abraham in whom all the promises were to be fulfilled.

Notice that the covenant referred to was between God and two men, Abraham and Jesus. The covenant was not to Abraham and his natural seed of the flesh, the children of Israel neither is it to the church which is the heavenly seed. LOOK at it again carefully.

The promise was made to Abraham's seed (Singular) who was Christ, the seed of the woman who would bruise the head of the serpent. Jesus came, the seed of woman, conceived of the Holy Ghost to make good every promise God made to the faithfull IN Christ.

That means the covenant made with Abraham was UNconditional and could not be broken by disobedience as some believe.
Since the promises of God to Abraham have yet to be fulfilled, it stands to logic reason that the Abrahamic covenant could not be set aside by the Law. It also means that those promises were based in grace and had no strings or conditions on them.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
Yay, another thread trying to take power away from God and giving it to the wills of men.
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Question. If one is filled with the Holy Spirit, and believes that it is the Father within us that does the works, according to the words that we speak that line up with the Word of God (so we are speaking what God has already said in His Word), how is that taking the power away from God and giving it to the wills of men?

Basically what you are saying (please correct me if i am misunderstanding your thoughts) is that if God gives us a scripture to stand on for whatever reason...it has not power. And God's Word holds no power? And is not alive?
 
Cturtle said:
Question. If one is filled with the Holy Spirit, and believes that it is the Father within us that does the works, according to the words that we speak that line up with the Word of God (so we are speaking what God has already said in His Word), how is that taking the power away from God and giving it to the wills of men?

Basically what you are saying (please correct me if i am misunderstanding your thoughts) is that if God gives us a scripture to stand on for whatever reason...it has not power. And God's Word holds no power? And is not alive?
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I just don't agree with Jim's interpretation of Job. He makes it seem as though God had nothing to do with Job's suffering but it was all Job's fault because he cared about his children. Job's suffering was in the plan of God and he allowed it to happen. It wasn't Job's fault, it was according to God's will.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
Yay, another thread trying to take power away from God and giving it to the wills of men.
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If God caused a person to be possessed (since God is in control of every thing) by a demon, and then causes that demon to be cast out, is not God's Kingdom divided. If God causes these things then His Kingdom will never stand! So, says this scripture.....

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Isa 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
 
CCW95A said:
If God caused a person to be possessed (since God is in control of every thing) by a demon, and then causes that demon to be cast out, is not God's Kingdom divided. If God causes these things then His Kingdom will never stand! So, says this scripture.....

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Isa 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
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Well fine, I guess God is not in control. He just lets his universe do whatever it wants...

Sorry, I don't believe in chaos.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
Well fine, I guess God is not in control. He just lets his universe do whatever it wants...

Sorry, I don't believe in chaos.
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Satan is the prince of the power of the air. He is the god of chaos. He is the god of this world. AS children of the King, we have the power and authority to wrest his power from him when we encounter it. This is how God set it in motion.
 
CCW95A said:
If God caused a person to be possessed (since God is in control of every thing) by a demon, and then causes that demon to be cast out, is not God's Kingdom divided. If God causes these things then His Kingdom will never stand! So, says this scripture.....

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Isa 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
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I don't believe I'm reading this!
God being in control does not mean He done it.
This discussion is getting dangerously close to forbidden fruit.
Let us just worship God as He has chosen to reveal Himself to us through nature and through scripture, and leave designer gods to the spiritually at risk.
 
Cturtle said:
According to Jeremiah 29:11-13, God has great plans for our lives. He loves us so much that He sent His Son just so that we could have a relationship with Him. God does hear your prayers, and He does answer them! You are a very important part of God's plan for this life.

Can i ask if you were in the military and if you saw any of your buddies not come home, thus wondering why you made it back and not them? Kind of feeling guilty for being alive, when they are not?
blessings of peace and joy be yours in abundance!
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Hi CTurtle - No, I was not in the military even though 10 years of my career was as electronic engineer for the Navy. I love world history especially military. My first exposure to reading World War history was from reading documentaries and was so shocked by the photos of the atrocities committed against civilians. What were committed were so hideous and evil that minds can not comprehend, babies, children, old and young at the hand of the enemies. My parents told me stories during the war. My dad was in Manila when the Japanese bombed the city, almost died. My Dad passed away in 1995. My Mom is now in nursing home. Up to this date, in her late old age, regardless of the multiple opportunities to accept Christ, my Mom looks at religion with skepticism and cynicism. She does not believe in a loving God. I think she just can not accept these based on her life experience.

Jeremiah 29:11-13 is one of my favorite. A verse I memorize and a verse to remind me God has a plan for me. I use the analogy of a solider for walking this earthly life. I think it is appropriate. A solider has no idea or should question the order he is given, He just have to suppress his doubt and move forward. There are lots of good sharing in this threads, lots of powerful scriptures references. I can force myself to accept what I was told has to be true - that God is just, merciful, loving and has our best interest in heart. But inside my heart, I have a hard time accepting it. I do not know what make me different than those of you who exhibit such conviction. Life goes on, I learned to compartmentize my brain not to dwell on the questions too much.
 
calvin said:
I don't believe I'm reading this!
God being in control does not mean He done it.
This discussion is getting dangerously close to forbidden fruit.
Let us just worship God as He has chosen to reveal Himself to us through nature and through scripture, and leave designer gods to the spiritually at risk.
Click to expand...
I am glad you think it is ridiculous to think this way because it is. If God really is in control of everything then this would be true, but of course it is not!

1John 5:19.. We know that we are children of God. We know that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (NiRV)
 
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The danger in believing God is in control of everything is if we think this is true, when evil comes we much less likely to resist it. Why would I resist something I believe is coming from God? Maybe the Lord is trying to teach me something, that his Word is not able to do. This is just not smart thinking!!!
 
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