Which one.....you and Mitspha being stand up Christians or that the sign gifts are invalid today?
Many Will Say "lord, Lord..."
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Which one.....you and Mitspha being stand up Christians or that the sign gifts are invalid today?
Well Major.. I guess the interpretation of the term "perfect" makes so much difference
This is the problem I have in defining that to be Word of God.. Bible was not canonized for many many years after that.. So how would a common man would have collectively looked at Word of God? Also, the signs and wonders were not just performed by Apostles.. It was performed by many others.. There is no denying that.. So how are we to infer that signs and wonders were limited to Apostolic age?I believe spiritual gifts are available for believers today also.. But the definition of spiritual gifts is abused.. It leads to 2 tier Christians.. Extra Biblical revelation.. Preachers taking authority to level the scripture.. And so on.. These are clearly not correct.. But because of the abuse, we cannot go to the extreme of saying spiritual gifts have ceased.. And a common question comes up.. Is there any genuine healing or prophesy? The answer is yes! I don't think we have people who can perform healing at will.. No! That is where people are going wrong..
I wonder why Paul would call Love as the greatest of all.. Without love, can a person pray for another person and bring healing? May be not! I always wondered about that.. Another point I always wonder is the definition of gift itself.. When a person prays for healing of another person and he or she is healed, who has the gift? Who has received the gift?
But we can debate about this all day long and change nothing about our perspectives
What a great verse to discuss! This would be one awesome discussion if we all stick to the topic! I think we should look at it with reference to the previous verses.. Jesus is talking about false prophets and how they could be deceiving.. And He follows that with this.. I don't think we should take this to say one can fall from grace..
Looking at the previous verses.. This is what it would mean.. We should not be deceived that signs and wonders authenticate or validate Christian faith.. It is validated only by fruits.. Just because a person is performing signs and wonders, we cannot go behind him and seek after signs.. I think it is talking about people being deceived into believing what Christian faith means.. There are many today who seek after signs.. And if signs are not there, then it is not genuine.. That is a dangerous thing.. They are living in this earth thinking they are saved.. But Jesus is saying, what they do really does not matter.. Because false signs could be done through evil force as well..
those who are like the Pharisees and claim the promise without thinking to "act on it" is needed will say "but Lord Lord" ..
Luk 6:46 “Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
Luk 3:8 “Therefore bear fruits in keeping with repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, We have Abraham for our father,' for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.
Mat 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
GRACE/MERCY .. IS GIVING MANKIND A SECOND CHANCE ..
whether we ACT ON THE GRACE OR NOT is up to us ..
Mat 7:26 “Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
Luk 6:46 “Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
Luk 3:8 “Therefore bear fruits in keeping with repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, We have Abraham for our father,' for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.
Mat 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
GRACE/MERCY .. IS GIVING MANKIND A SECOND CHANCE ..
whether we ACT ON THE GRACE OR NOT is up to us ..
Mat 7:26 “Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
that was the problem with the Pharisees, and what Jesus was trying to teach them .. indeed there is a promise and by God's GRACE He acted on that promise .. and He says IF you also "act on it" then you are not foolish ..
thus being saved by grace means we are saved by Jesus acting on the promise .. it does not mean we do not need to act on that as well .. that is a poor interpretation that refutes what Jesus said ..
thus being saved by grace means we are saved by Jesus acting on the promise .. it does not mean we do not need to act on that as well .. that is a poor interpretation that refutes what Jesus said ..
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Amen...and it also does not mean that all manifestations of gifts or healings or miracles of any sort are automatically demonic. When my sister and her husband Mikial felt called to the bedside of a friend (Rodney) who was very ill, grey and shaking continuously with fever and the doctors could not stop it (over a week of all sorts of treatment)...and they got up...went there believing Mark 16 and laid hands on him assured in their hearts that he would recover and he did and went home the next day...this was not demonic...it was God in His grace as a witness to Rodney....who is now ever thankful (He believed in God but now really believes in God...He KNOWS God is real)
Of course the doctors say "Well we must have made a mistake or else something we did finally kicked in" NOT!!!!
There are so many of these examples we all have....I believe in the perpetuity of spiritual gifts (albeit there are a lot of frauds and charlatans even within the church) because I have personally experienced it in my life and the lives of others...
Now I think this verse teaches us two things...
a) just because God uses a person or they do things in His name, does not make them a child of God (like the five unwise virgins IN the church but not OF the church...He NEVER knew them)
b) "I"-ism or "We"-ism is not the basis of being a child of God
The tares (darnel wheat) look exactly like real wheat at first, and even after it is apparent they are not true wheat, they remain in the field until harvest time....you SHALL know them by their fruits (but do not be quick to judge because fruit takes time to grow)
In His love
brother Paul
But can one really have the Spirit if God and then fall away? I cannot IMAGINE
sure they can .. Jesus Paul and Peter say yes ..
if you become a new creature (born again) and walk in the spirit not the flesh ..
you can revert and walk in the flesh again ..
Luk 9:62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."
2Pe 2:21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
Hbr 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Hbr 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Hbr 6:6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
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Once God seals you, you are sealed until the day of redemption...He who began this good work in you will also finish it...He who promised will also do it...He will NEVER leave you or forsake you....those who go out from us were never really of us.
Its the Spirit of grace... we received it by grace...and it is clear that we can "through legalism" fall from grace and be "cut-off" from Christ...."In Grace" all the great precious promises of God are made and by grace alone do we abide in Him. If a believer rejects grace they are in fact rejecting that which saves them.. God is not rejecting or "unsaving" them..they ARE rejecting Him and His saving grace.
Ro 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Well Major.. I guess the interpretation of the term "perfect" makes so much difference
I believe spiritual gifts are available for believers today also.. But the definition of spiritual gifts is abused.. It leads to 2 tier Christians.. Extra Biblical revelation.. Preachers taking authority to level the scripture.. And so on.. These are clearly not correct.. But because of the abuse, we cannot go to the extreme of saying spiritual gifts have ceased.. And a common question comes up.. Is there any genuine healing or prophesy? The answer is yes! I don't think we have people who can perform healing at will.. No! That is where people are going wrong..
I wonder why Paul would call Love as the greatest of all.. Without love, can a person pray for another person and bring healing? May be not! I always wondered about that.. Another point I always wonder is the definition of gift itself.. When a person prays for healing of another person and he or she is healed, who has the gift? Who has received the gift?
But we can debate about this all day long and change nothing about our perspectives
Agreed.
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No I already smoked that argument into oblivion. Then u were mad about the incorrect name I gave you...your escape route. You ignored the facts I presented and pouted about mixedpah
Your fallen from grace doctrine fell thru the crack and you could not refute me.
Teehehehaw
Ix...Lot's wife saved? Wow! That's a leap...I have to go with Intojoy on that one...maybe we have different concepts of "salvation"....God promising to spare them is not the same as them being saved I do not think...
If one is genuinely (by God) made into a new creature (one of His actual children) by the Holy Spirit can a man by the power of the flesh undo what God has done? If one really receives "eternal" life can it really cease or be lost? Eternal means at the very least "without end"....it is the gift of God and the word tells us that the gifts of God are without repentance...they are irrevocable....
God will punish His children but not condemn them...they lose but do not cease being His child...these passages do not mean they lose their salvation (that is if they were genuinely His child)...if they went out from us they were never really of us...
Salvation is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-10) therefore it is irrevocable. If you truly received "eternal" life IN CHRIST you will eternally be IN CHRIST...you are his and no one (not even yourself) can pluck you out of His hand...
If one is genuinely (by God) made into a new creature (one of His actual children) by the Holy Spirit can a man by the power of the flesh undo what God has done? If one really receives "eternal" life can it really cease or be lost? Eternal means at the very least "without end"....it is the gift of God and the word tells us that the gifts of God are without repentance...they are irrevocable....
God will punish His children but not condemn them...they lose but do not cease being His child...these passages do not mean they lose their salvation (that is if they were genuinely His child)...if they went out from us they were never really of us...
Salvation is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-10) therefore it is irrevocable. If you truly received "eternal" life IN CHRIST you will eternally be IN CHRIST...you are his and no one (not even yourself) can pluck you out of His hand...
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indeed .. to not continue in the love of God is ..
I must have missed it?
what post was it ...I have not seen you present any biblical evidence?