Not so my brother. But please read Moose's response in comment #97. He is right on and that was the whole point.
Mark 16:9-20
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Not so my brother. But please read Moose's response in comment #97. He is right on and that was the whole point.
Amen! THAT was the whole point!!!!
We really have no excuse at all. It requires "faith" to be healed, which is why Jesus always taught / preached the Word before healing, (faith comes by hearing the Word) or the people had heard his message earlier. What if we don't have the needed faith, but we know God can heal us? Then we call for the elders of the Church to come pray for us. So, either way there is no excuse, unless we just like "complaining" why this or why that, just looking for an excuse not to believe.
If there are any accusations that this is not of God today, that is not against us, but Jesus who is the healer.
Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
If there are any accusations that this is not of God today, that is not against us, but Jesus who is the healer.
Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Does the Church have power over the devil, or no? Since sickness is oppression of the devil, should we not use the power given to us by God to loose those in bondage? If we do not have "power / authority" over the devil then we are simply at the mercy of the devil, and not God. As for me and my family no sickness or disease shall come near my house, and the devil knows that.
I do not agree...Bib surprise, right? You are comparing the faith it takes to be saved to the faith in God to healing the sick.
That is not what I proposed or asked. All Christians I know of believe in the power of God. Again that is not the question. God is the Creator and He has all the power in the universe to do what He wants to do.
You are bringing "faith" into the equation saying that "faith is required". You said......"Learn the protocols of God and then we will understand the power of God".
Listen my dear brother. Many Christians have firmly believed that God would heal a loved one because He and only He has the power to do so. They prayed in faith. They believed in faith. Some believed that they had confirmation from other believers or from other miracles. So they were genuinely surprised, even dumbfounded, and deeply disappointed when the loved one died. What they had believed with such certainty and with total faith turned out not to be true. Their faith could not heal the person — only God could heal, and he chose not to, despite their prayers, their faith, God's love and God's promises.
I can not even begin to count the number of times I have stood with a family and watched their loved one die when they had all the faith in the world that God would heal that person. But He did not choose to do so.
Now, when that happens what do you do???? Do YOU tell those people that they did not have enough faith?????
My dear brothers and sister in Christ, when such disappointments happen, a new trial sets in. Abdicate brought in this faith issue and may I say to you all, that If faith in the healing turned out to be a mistake, what about faith in Christ?
Was it also a mistake? Do you all see the problem here???? This is one of the dangers of the "word of faith" teaching — it links faith in our Savior to faith in specific predictions.
That is what my brother is saying. Here are the exact words............
"Learn the protocols of the word of God and you'd understand how the power of God works. Faith of salvation is the same faith for anything else. If one doesn't have faith for issues in their lives, how can they be certain they have faith for salvation?"
My original question still stands. IF, a man has the gift of healing, why does he need to be in a church or stadium and advertise his event???? In all honesty, don't you have to agree that if YOU had that gift YOU would be going from one hospital room to another healing as you went without asking how much faith a 5 year old child with cancer had or if his parents had any at all?????????
Now then, is it always God's will to heal people who have faith in Christ? Is that the protocol of God's plan????
The biblical evidence is that He sometimes does, and sometimes He does not. Stephen was killed, James was killed. Eventually all the first Christians died of something. Yet, how many times did God save them out of danger before they eventually died? Perhaps many times.
Have you ever wondered about preachers who claim to heal all infirmities, yet they themselves wear eyeglasses? There is no reason why biblical promises would apply to one kind of ailment but not the other. The Scriptures sometimes cited in support of a universal promise of healing do not make any exceptions for eyesight, age, accidents or anything else. But both Scripture and experience tell us that these verses were not intended as universal guarantees.
Yes, some have been healed, sometimes dramatically through the power of God!!!! These are examples of special favor, grace and mercy. but IMO we should not take these examples of God's exceptional grace and create universal promises out of them.
And we especially should not imply that people who aren't healed do not have faith. Sometimes their faith is demonstrated through their suffering — they remain cheerfully confident that God will do what is best for them. Whether they live or whether they die, whether they have prosperity or poverty, they trust in God. There is nothing wrong with their faith.
What is wrong is a teaching that implies that they are somehow not doing enough.!!!!!
I realize how very much you believe this. I admire you and love you my brother so please do not take my speaking with you as a contest or argument.
You are saying that faith is required for God to perform works, or healings or miracles. You are actually placing faith in faith IMO.
But we find in the Scriptures that Christ did not require faith for everyone, faith is not demanded as a precondition for one to receive a miracle. When faith was required it was in Jesus, not necessarily that one believes they could be healed. The faith movement today says faith is a condition for our healing those who are not healed, and their healing failed because they did not have the required amount of faith for God to react.
Healings were done in numerous ways. By the person's faith, by intermediary prayer by another, and by God himself with no faith from the person present. If you will take the time to do the work, you will find that of the 35 miracles recorded in the Gospel accounts the faith of the recipient is exercise in only 10 of the accounts.
I am well aware that posting comments like this always puts me at risk of being misunderstood. So many people believe if you criticize healing in any manner you don't believe God can still heal. I do believe in healing, I do believe in miracles and I certainly want to be believing it the way the Bible presents it, and not the way the faith-healing movement teaches today.
Please, please be very carful in what you are saying my dear brother!!!! Please think about what others with less understanding are going to think about your words. Think about those who have already seen dear loved ones die in their arms.
I just buried my mother a few months ago and may I say that YOU or no one else is in her class of Christianity.
She was a saints saint yet she suffered for a long, long time and she died.
If you truly believe what you said.........please PM me and let me know your address and the next time I have to bury a 1 year old little girl who dies of cancer, I will allow you to council with and pray with her parents and explain to them your thinking.
The Bible does not give Christians the authority to rebuke the devil, but to resist him.
James 4:7 ............says to "submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."
Zechariah 3:2 ........tells us that it is the Lord who rebukes Satan.
Even Michael, one of the most powerful of the angels, did not dare to accuse Satan, but rather said in Jude 9.........
"The Lord rebuke you" .
In response to Satan's attacks, a Christian should appeal to Christ. Instead of focusing on defeating the devil, we should focus on following Christ and that is in Hebrews 12:2 and trust that He will defeat the forces of evil.
Then it is not necessary for a Christian to rebuke Satan because God has given us His full armor to stand against evil as seen in Ephesians 6:10-18.
Brother I am sorry for your loss, I also lost my mother 2 years ago, but death of the physical body is normal as it only lasts so long on this earth.
As for young kids passing away before their time does happen in this broken sin laden world. The devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy as you all ready know.
If we base our faith on what some body tells us, and or what they experience is no faith at all. Faith does not come by what people say or experience, but only from the Word of God. Are you telling me your faith rest on what other people have told you, and tried thinking it was faith? You should know better than that. I don't care what anyone says, that does not move me in any way except what the Word of God tells me.
Resisting the devil is not a once in a life time thing. We have to continually resist the devil when ever he tries to temp or cause harm to either yourself or your family, or who ever. Did Jesus rebuke the devil? Did he do it just once, or was he constantly setting those in bondage free from his works? Who has more power angels or God? We are not angels but sons of God endured with power from on high, which the angels do not have. God lives and dwells inside us which angles do not. God has given to us his Glory which the angels do not have. We live inside God, which angels do not. What purpose would it be for us to have authority over ALL the works of the devil if we don't use it? How do we use it?
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I know an old brother who's been paralysed from the chest down for thirty years. I know a young sister who has aggressive cancer. What God has brought out into display for His glory in these two dear believers is beyond my ability to describe. I know a good many other believers who suffer from various ailments - the vast majority with cheerfulness, thanking God for the grace to bear whatever circumstances come their way.
The apostle Paul suffered from a physical ailment of some kind, a thorn in his flesh:
"... And that I might not be exalted by the exceeding greatness of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn for the flesh, a messenger of Satan that he might buffet me, that I might not be exalted. For this I thrice besought the Lord that it might depart from me. And he said to me, My grace suffices thee; for my power is perfected in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather boast in my weaknesses, that the power of the Christ may dwell upon me. Wherefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in insults, in necessities, in persecutions, in straits, for Christ: for when I am weak, then I am powerful." - 2 Corinthians 12:7-10
When I think of these believers who're in bodily weakness, I think of that word of the Lord: "My grace suffices for thee; my power is perfected in weakness." That, I believe, is very much a word for our day, a broken day. The power of God is no less than it was at the very beginning. Nothing of the thoughts of God has ever fallen to the ground. I believe - and, in my small measure, have proved - that something special for the Lord's glory and satisfaction is being worked out in this time. It isn't something of great outward display, but something inward, unseen by the world and overlooked by the majority of Christendom.
The apostle Paul suffered from a physical ailment of some kind, a thorn in his flesh:
"... And that I might not be exalted by the exceeding greatness of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn for the flesh, a messenger of Satan that he might buffet me, that I might not be exalted. For this I thrice besought the Lord that it might depart from me. And he said to me, My grace suffices thee; for my power is perfected in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather boast in my weaknesses, that the power of the Christ may dwell upon me. Wherefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in insults, in necessities, in persecutions, in straits, for Christ: for when I am weak, then I am powerful." - 2 Corinthians 12:7-10
When I think of these believers who're in bodily weakness, I think of that word of the Lord: "My grace suffices for thee; my power is perfected in weakness." That, I believe, is very much a word for our day, a broken day. The power of God is no less than it was at the very beginning. Nothing of the thoughts of God has ever fallen to the ground. I believe - and, in my small measure, have proved - that something special for the Lord's glory and satisfaction is being worked out in this time. It isn't something of great outward display, but something inward, unseen by the world and overlooked by the majority of Christendom.
Major you are joining two healing actions into one
1. we all have been given the authority and power and right to heal. - Man is the problem in this area.
2.. the gift of heal such as used as a ministry is all together another situation.
Now then Major you said....((( My original question still stands. IF, a man has the gift of healing, why does he need to be in a church or stadium and advertise his event???? In all honesty, don't you have to agree that if YOU had thatgift YOU would be going from one hospital room to another healingas you went )))
A better understanding would be - How has God directed Him to go forth with his ministry?
In all honesty Major - it does not matter what I think or any one else thinks in how some one goes about in their ministry.............They go as God leads............they answer to God and Not you and ME.
Blessings
jim
Major What does Luke 10:19-20 say ?
If you only uses the armor of God to stand and protect you from his darts then you are nothing more then a padded person standing in a batting gage.
We are not simply to just stand back against the enemy. We need to stand our ground and take Authority over the devil and run him out of here. You can not do this if you are waiting around for God to do it.
Yes you did say this ((In response to Satan's attacks, a Christian should appeal to Christ. Instead of focusing on defeating the devil, we should focus on following Christ and that is in Hebrews 12:2 and trust that He will defeat the forces of evil. Then it is not necessary for a Christian to rebuke Satan because God has given us His full armor to stand against evil as seen in Ephesians 6:10-18.))
Brother Jesus already did this - Jesus gave us authority over this and gave of His Blood and Gods word and so forth..........I can give you a shot gun and teach you to shoot it but if you dont use it - then it has no benifit for you....it is the same with this authroity God has given us.
Blessings
Jim
Hello Grant,
Would you start a thread on what you are saying in this reply ?
There is a lot of truth that is Not seen in the words you speak..........you also said Paul suffered physical ailment of some kind as his thron in the flesh........you sure about that?
Thank You
Jim
I have to admit, dear friend, that I'm a bit weary with argument and controversy. I don't particularly want to prolong it or expand it onto another thread. More often than not lately I've been biting my tongue and not saying what immediately springs to mind. I feel as though I have a lot more to learn about being governed by the Spirit in what I say. It's possible to say something that's correct, but not to say it at the right time or in the right way, and so there's no fruit for God from it. There a time to keep silence, and a time to speak (Ecclesiastes 3:7), and I have to learn which is which.
Brother, sometimes healing comes instantly, and some time it comes as a process over time, which is why we are told......
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
Since God sends his Word and heals us, we should pay attention to what we are suppose to do after professing our faith in his Word.
Exo 14:14 The LORD will fight for you, and you have only to be silent."
Another translation says, "the Lord will fight for you, just keep your mouth shut"
Why keep out mouth shut, because we are always speaking words contrary to our faith, that nullifies our faith.
Bother Grant, there is no reason why not to stand your ground in what you believe to be true. How else will we ever learn if we just let things go when you believe what you are reading is wrong. It is not Godly to "compromise" the truth to bring peace between the brethren. That peace only comes after we are unwilling to compromise the truth, and this peace comes first within the believer who is speaking it. As Jesus said, "Wisdom is justified by all her children" No one can have the children of Wisdom unless they truly have that Wisdom from above.
Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Jas 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
None of the Apostles or Jesus himself ever compromised the truth just to bring peace, as it cost them their lives because of it. If I know something is wrong am I not suppose to reveal what I believe to others, with scripture proof as to why, and then let those reading decide for themselves what the truth is?
There are times, for sure, when we have to withstand our brethren to the face, as Paul had to do with Peter. But there are other times when we have to wait for a word from on high. If I wait on God's time, I may not win the debate, but I may win my brother or sister in due course - perhaps in private. Sometimes I feel the public forum isn't the best place for some of the discussions we have. In public, the danger is (and I speak for myself) that a flickering of natural pride won't allow a little spiritual adjustment. Between two brethren in private, things can be discussed more candidly.
Glomung
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And what will you do when it does?
I personally do not know of any families that do not have to deal with illness and disease, regardless of their apparent piety or lack thereof.
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