Men/Women in the Church

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Lanolin said:
but not a pastor right? Or a president.
Even though pastoral care for children has always been done by women.
I think women like to have a turn at doing things especially if men are absent/have abdicated their role. Sometimes they have no choice but they turn out to be quite capable, although some go the other way and become just as tyrannical as men can be. I would not say women are usurping men if they've been chosen by God to fill roles that men have vacated from, or made a hash of.

Often she has to do everything like all the household chores on top of it as well, unless she hires a maid. In NZ we don't have maids. Women often have to do everything, and we do have 'hire a hubby'. The male and female population are not balanced, there has actually been a 'man drought' for several decades. I think people discount the effect of the World War taking away large numbers of men. (Gallipoli?)

Of course in the US, who mostly stayed out of World War 1 & 2 (except for the last moment when they dropped bombs) this did not affect their population as much. I don't think they like to mention all the wars that came after that with all different countries - Vietnam, Korea, Iraq. Theres huge numbers of orphans and abandoned children as a result of war in Vietnam and Korea.

In NZ it would be hard to be a housewife these days as people can barely afford houses.
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Thats right........NOT a Pastor because God said so my dear!

If it wasnt for the USA, you would be speaking Japanese today!!!!

Someone needs a refresher course at their library in real history!
 
Lanolin said:
I imagine its hard living in urban areas in close quarters/over crowded conditions.
What was the population of Israel at the time of Jesus anyway? Or Jerusalem. Just out of interest.

I know by the time they crossed the Jordan river after the Exodus it was coming up to 2 million.

In revelation there is a number of 144,000
I wonder how big the temple was and whether it could fit that amount of people in there at one time.

Apparently the Romans had communal toilets...! You sat down with your neighbour while taking a dump. No privacy it was like a social thing.
They also had communal baths, though I think men and women were separate.
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WOW.

You jump from one topic to another more than my dog scratches for fles.
 
Lanolin said:
we don't have walmart here but we now have a costco.
I don't like Cost co. It just seems like it encourages wasteful spending to me. I suppose for some people wholesale is good but only if you buying for 50 people maybe.

I do have to be careful bathing because I didn't know the neighbours could sort of see into our bathroom even though its got a frosted window. I think curtains are good and I had perfected the art of getting changed/undressing without exposing myself. We learn to do this at school when we get changed for PE and have separate changing rooms for girls and boys. But I know some schools don't afford any privacy in girls and boys toilets which is a vulnerable area because when you are doing ablutions etc you don't want everyone looking at you.

I also don't understand how some bathrooms have a toilet in the same room as the bath/shower. If I were designing it, would be separate rooms or cubicles as you don't want someone walking in, needing to use the toilet when you in the bath!
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Then DONT go and shop at it!

Are you serious or is this some kind of test??
 
Lanolin said:
but not a pastor right? Or a president.
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far as i know a woman can be president in the united states .as per pastor it depends on what Denomination in the baptist far as i know in all no women pastor which is bIble . i dont go around telling women they cant. i dont rule other Churches
 
Lanolin said:
but not a pastor right? Or a president.
Even though pastoral care for children has always been done by women.
I think women like to have a turn at doing things especially if men are absent/have abdicated their role. Sometimes they have no choice but they turn out to be quite capable, although some go the other way and become just as tyrannical as men can be. I would not say women are usurping men if they've been chosen by God to fill roles that men have vacated from, or made a hash of.
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There are plenty of women pastors in theologically liberal Churches. Is that what you want?
 
crossnote said:
There are plenty of women pastors in theologically liberal Churches. Is that what you want?
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pastors aren't the same as teachers though.
What about healers, helps, and workers of miracles can they only be male as well. Just seems a bit weird because many baptist churches already have MANY female ministers it's not a one-man show. Also there are many female Bible college professors too. I just thought its cos there's a shortage of able men or they just didn't want the role. God can call anyone, he even had a donkey speak when nobody would listen to a man or a woman.
Jesus was 12 when he started teaching...it's says when he called the disciples it was he taught as one who had authority, and not as the scribes. I wonder what that meant about the scribes...

I also wonder about women who don't or never marry. What are they allowed to do? Acts 21:9 seems like they prophesy.
Maybe in some churches they don't do anything, or only go if they're married.
 
crossnote said:
If she holds firm in the Word, seems to me she wouldn't pastor as a female. Preaching/Evangelist may be a different story I don't want to get into.
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the Pentecostals see the scripture different . we dont discuss her role as a preacher. she lives about 5 hours away from me. if her work is not of God it will burn up at the bema seat
 
Lanolin said:
pastors aren't the same as teachers though.
What about healers, helps, and workers of miracles can they only be male as well. Just seems a bit weird because many baptist churches already have MANY female ministers it's not a one-man show. Also there are many female Bible college professors too. I just thought its cos there's a shortage of able men or they just didn't want the role. God can call anyone, he even had a donkey speak when nobody would listen to a man or a woman.
Jesus was 12 when he started teaching...it's says when he called the disciples it was he taught as one who had authority, and not as the scribes. I wonder what that meant about the scribes...

I also wonder about women who don't or never marry. What are they allowed to do? Acts 21:9 seems like they prophesy.
Maybe in some churches they don't do anything, or only go if they're married.
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I asked if you wanted theologically liberal Churches, I take it your answer is 'yes'.
 
I'm having a hard time deducing Lanolin's position.

In this and another thread, I tried to explain clearly the verse in Timothy.

It's Scripturally clear that women shouldn't teach adult men within the context of the church.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man" 1 Timothy 2:12

WELS follows this, as do most theologically conservative churches. LCMS follows it as well for the pastoral position, though they allow women to vote on church matters (WELS doesn't).

As for secular matters, there's a range of thought on that. WELS doesn't have anything specifically prohibiting women from voting on politics in their nation, from working, from going to college. Some Calvinist sects of the conservative variety also prohibit those.

But the most important thing is, we must follow what 1 Timothy 2:12 teaches. At the very least, women should NOT be teaching or having authority over men in the churches. We follow this carefully at WELS.
 
kdm1984 said:
I'm having a hard time deducing Lanolin's position.

In this and another thread, I tried to explain clearly the verse in Timothy.

It's Scripturally clear that women shouldn't teach adult men within the context of the church.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man" 1 Timothy 2:12

WELS follows this, as do most theologically conservative churches. LCMS follows it as well for the pastoral position, though they allow women to vote on church matters (WELS doesn't).

As for secular matters, there's a range of thought on that. WELS doesn't have anything specifically prohibiting women from voting on politics in their nation, from working, from going to college. Some Calvinist sects of the conservative variety also prohibit those.

But the most important thing is, we must follow what 1 Timothy 2:12 teaches. At the very least, women should NOT be teaching or having authority over men in the churches. We follow this carefully at WELS.
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It's typical of today's Church cow-towing to the culture, rather than Scripture.
 
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kdm1984 said:
I'm having a hard time deducing Lanolin's position.

In this and another thread, I tried to explain clearly the verse in Timothy.

It's Scripturally clear that women shouldn't teach adult men within the context of the church.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man" 1 Timothy 2:12

WELS follows this, as do most theologically conservative churches. LCMS follows it as well for the pastoral position, though they allow women to vote on church matters (WELS doesn't).

As for secular matters, there's a range of thought on that. WELS doesn't have anything specifically prohibiting women from voting on politics in their nation, from working, from going to college. Some Calvinist sects of the conservative variety also prohibit those.

But the most important thing is, we must follow what 1 Timothy 2:12 teaches. At the very least, women should NOT be teaching or having authority over men in the churches. We follow this carefully at WELS.
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My dear, with all due respect to her, I think that if you stay here for awhile, you will understand that a lot of people ..........
"I'm having a hard time deducing Lanolin's position"., on a lot of things.

We either accept the Scriptures as they are written or we reject them! To allow a woman pastor is to reject the Word of God and there are NO excuses that are valid.
 
Major said:
My dear, with all due respect to her, I think that if you stay here for awhile, you will understand that a lot of people ..........
"I'm having a hard time deducing Lanolin's position"., on a lot of things.

We either accept the Scriptures as they are written or we reject them! To allow a woman pastor is to reject the Word of God and there are NO excuses that are valid.
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She's very wrong! You are correct, because you are using SCRIPTURE.

But your promotion of "individualism" in the other thread is contrary to Scripture.

It's this very "behavioral scientists" and Ayn Randian NONSENSE that leads silly women to think they're ABOVE GOD and men in the GROUP.
 
kdm1984 said:
She's very wrong! You are correct, because you are using SCRIPTURE.

But your promotion of "individualism" in the other thread is contrary to Scripture.

It's this very "behavioral scientists" and Ayn Randian NONSENSE that leads silly women to think they're ABOVE GOD and men in the GROUP.
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I am not promoting individualism my dear sister. I am only giving an opinion.

I personnaly do not see how individualism is godless. It can I think lead to selfishness, but godlessness in another matter.
 
Major said:
I am not promoting individualism my dear sister. I am only giving an opinion.

I personnaly do not see how individualism is godless. It can I think lead to selfishness, but godlessness in another matter.
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What? Rand was the most ardent individualist of the 20th century! She was atheistic, utterly godless.

I'm VERY CAREFUL about the forums I go to...while there are some good things here, I see too many MEN once again appealing to the ideas of SILLY WOMEN and making them appear godly.

This isn't good. Men are to teach women, but they mustn't teach women unscriptural NONSENSE.

I believe I will stick with WELS as they don't get caught up in INDIVIDUALISTIC SELF WORSHIP.
 
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