Thanks for posting this.
Blessings
Moving past this hurt & bitterness seems difficult :/
- Thread starter autumn oddity
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Blessings
Pastor Phoebe
Well, Phoebe was a pastor. Do not tell me she was a servant in the sense of the weaker helping the stronger--she was a pastor or servant in the sense of the strong leading the weak. The word used for servant in the scriptural passage of Romans 16:1 is "diakonos" in Greek. This word is used everywhere in the NT to designate the office of "minister". This same word is used to denote the office that Phoebe had in Cenchrea, but somehow the bias of the translators entered here and was translated as "servant" (upon encountering a female name!). Both translations are correct, but the wrong connotation has been taken. Pastors indeed ARE servants! Elsewhere, wherever a minister was spoken of, if he was male, the word "diakonos" was transcribed as "minister", where "servant" is just as appropriate.
When Paul spoke of Phoebe as a helper of many as well as himself, he used the word, "prostatis", meaning "helper". In this sense, the word, "prostatis" means helping in the manner of one with authority, a master, and a leader. This word was used by the historian, Josephus, in describing Caesar, one of supreme authority. A leader is a helper, and in this sense, it denotes one who helps from a place of authority and strength, not one who helps a strong person out of a place of lesser strength, which is the connotation many people today give to the word.
Well, Phoebe was a pastor. Do not tell me she was a servant in the sense of the weaker helping the stronger--she was a pastor or servant in the sense of the strong leading the weak. The word used for servant in the scriptural passage of Romans 16:1 is "diakonos" in Greek. This word is used everywhere in the NT to designate the office of "minister". This same word is used to denote the office that Phoebe had in Cenchrea, but somehow the bias of the translators entered here and was translated as "servant" (upon encountering a female name!). Both translations are correct, but the wrong connotation has been taken. Pastors indeed ARE servants! Elsewhere, wherever a minister was spoken of, if he was male, the word "diakonos" was transcribed as "minister", where "servant" is just as appropriate.
When Paul spoke of Phoebe as a helper of many as well as himself, he used the word, "prostatis", meaning "helper". In this sense, the word, "prostatis" means helping in the manner of one with authority, a master, and a leader. This word was used by the historian, Josephus, in describing Caesar, one of supreme authority. A leader is a helper, and in this sense, it denotes one who helps from a place of authority and strength, not one who helps a strong person out of a place of lesser strength, which is the connotation many people today give to the word.
Of the 12 disciples picked by Jesus, how many were female?
Truly, that has no real bearing on the subject, for women were disciples, but as a leader, Jesus was right to choose 12 men. As leaders ourselves, it is optimal to gather 12 to disciple... Women leading/pastoring women and men doing the same...all in our private lives of ministry. It is different, though, when one is called to ministry to the assembly.
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If you want to see something that appeals to your pride, you will see it and think it is the Holy Spirit. Despite the overwhelming evidence against it. This thread and those on faith are evidence of you doing exactly that.
Now you can be forgiven for this and I don''t mean to drop a rock on your head. But don't you feel burdened to challenge the voices speaking to you? Especially when they line up so conveniently with the desires of the flesh and the current last days / unsaved world...?
The fact that Jesus picked only men is an achilles heel to your belief. Think and pray about it more.
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There weremore then 12 who followed Jesus all the time and three of them were woman and they did not just hang around. They testified among other things.
Brother what are you talking about ? I think I understand but there is to much room for guessing
To be truthful I have not ever stopped wondering about all this but I too have learned some things.
1. if it aint broke dont try and fix it.
2. Most woman work under their husbands or another words the ministry leader under God is the husband.
3. Ant this one I think is most important............If God anoints and or uses a woman to teach or heal or cary the Blessing then who am I do question this ?
...A Many woman are totally under the anointing - So God must not Dis A Prove of this.
Just my 2 Cents worth
Blessings
Jim
See I knew it..........a city girl.........Camping out under the stars - just you and The Father and the Lord Jesus.............it dont get much better then that............well ok --------- 7 lb walleye does not hurt either.
God Bless
Jim
Are you for real?
Brother what are you talking about ? I think I understand but there is to much room for guessing
Dude read your bible................Try Luke 8 for starters..............
Sure, if you read 2 Pet 2:1-3 first.
You need to better discern the anointing.
If your school teacher asked you..: If we pick 12 apples, remove one and add one... how many are left? What mark do you think your teacher will give you if your reply was ''There were more then 12 apples in the shop all the time and there were also three oranges and they did not just hang around''.
God chose 12 men and then Paul, also a man. Paul then said '' I suffer not a woman to teach''. I see that verse has mostly been overlooked in this thread. Perhaps because it means '' he suffers a woman not to teach''
Then it is quite funny to see how the verses from Paul on Pheobe go from ''barely being accepted as a deacon'' to suddenely ''woman can hence also be elders''.
Then.....you come with your ''well they are also anointed two cents'''....I am so glad that I was not your teacher in school. My ten your old cousin is also anointed. He come must come run your church. Are you ok with that?
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Lol! There is no Achilles heel to my belief. Perhaps you've come face to face with yours.
I do challenge what the Lord shows me is not in line with Him. I do it every day, here.
To me it was BC son were arguing back and forth about whether a woman can be a pastor or not...and that's not the point of my thread.
Picking my brain would only take about 2 minutes.....max!
As for arguing, I have never thought of you as doing that and there is no need for any apology at all.
And you are correct. There is NO record of a woman being a pastor in the Bible. It has been my position from the very 1st posting on this subject that men and women are absolutely equal in God's eyes, but that is not the issue.
The subject is equality in Christ, equal access to the salvation Christ offers. Men and women, Jews and Gentiles, slave and free are absolutely equal in this context and that goes without any debate. We have been debating "leadership" in the New Test. church and it is the Bible record that says it is to be the Man and not the woman.
Always a blessing to speak with you and may God bless you!