Must one Hold to the trinity to be saved?
- Thread starter YeshuaFan
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There are father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit, and all 3 of them equally Yahweh
The idea that the image of man began with Adam in the flesh is a fallacy, yeah, I agree with that point. So like I showed from Genesis 1:26-27, the word 'man' (aadam in the Hebrew) is put for the image likeness which God created Adam with. So I don't know where the Leftists today get this idea that the image of man must always mean an image of the flesh. It's like they're trying to keep it a secret that the angels, and even Satan also has that outward image likeness of 'man' which comes from God's Own Image Likeness.
Because just 'how' do the angels appear on earth per God's written Word? With the image ' man'.
Gen 19:1-5
1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, "Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them."
KJV
Even those sodomites saw those two angels with the image of 'man'.
So I don't think this is a matter that can be argued; God's Word is very plain about it. Trying to argue about it as if it's anything different is like those who try to say 2 + 2 does not equal 4.
So yeah, back to the original topic of the thread... believing in God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit is... a requirement for one's salvation. Those who attempt to argue against that are actually attacking the fact that God's Word reveals Jesus is The Christ, meaning God come in the flesh.
In 1 John 2:22-23, Apostle John showed that those who deny The Son also deny The Father, and those who accept The Son (believe on Him) also have The Father.
Apostle John specifically said in 2 John 7 that those who deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh are antichrists. Thing is, even the unbelieving Pharisees recognized that Jesus of Nazareth was born in the flesh, so what is John really saying?
John was pointing to Jesus of Nazareth being THE CHRIST. That title of 'The Christ' is a Heavenly Title, not an earthly one. To be The Christ means being The Son of God, or God born in the flesh. That is actually what Apostle John was pointing to, that Jesus of Nazareth is God having come in the flesh. That is also what the Matthew 1:23 verse says also with defining another one of Jesus' Titles of "Immanuel" from the Book of Isaiah, as "God with us".
So yeah, believing that about Jesus as written is very... important to one's salvation. Is it no wonder then that those who do not believe Jesus is God The Son, The Christ, that they try to confuse this concept by creating doubt? Brethren, just don't listen to those, for those have the spirit of antichrist.
In 1 John 2:22-23, Apostle John showed that those who deny The Son also deny The Father, and those who accept The Son (believe on Him) also have The Father.
Apostle John specifically said in 2 John 7 that those who deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh are antichrists. Thing is, even the unbelieving Pharisees recognized that Jesus of Nazareth was born in the flesh, so what is John really saying?
John was pointing to Jesus of Nazareth being THE CHRIST. That title of 'The Christ' is a Heavenly Title, not an earthly one. To be The Christ means being The Son of God, or God born in the flesh. That is actually what Apostle John was pointing to, that Jesus of Nazareth is God having come in the flesh. That is also what the Matthew 1:23 verse says also with defining another one of Jesus' Titles of "Immanuel" from the Book of Isaiah, as "God with us".
So yeah, believing that about Jesus as written is very... important to one's salvation. Is it no wonder then that those who do not believe Jesus is God The Son, The Christ, that they try to confuse this concept by creating doubt? Brethren, just don't listen to those, for those have the spirit of antichrist.
DP, in the field of Systematic Theology, we do not assume upon, and define, spiritual beings by the form and appearance they take upon themselves in this realm.
You asked the key question yourself when asking HOW do they appear as men. If you're fallaciously assuming upon them their spiritual reality on the basis of their appearance here in the natural, then you have it all backwards.
The spiritual is more real than the physical. The physical is defined by the spiritual, not the other way around.
That they take on a form more akin to physical mankind simply shows to us that their purpose is better met for them to appear as one of us rather than to give to us some other appearance of what would be utterly alien to us.
What other form would have been more appropriate, in your estimation? I mean, if you're going to apply that level of subjectivism, then perhaps you could clue us in on what form would have been better suited when appearing to men and women. I would venture to say that they could appear as dragons, or lions, or something utterly alien, like what we see in Star Wars movies.
MM
I believe in One omnipresent God in heaven, on earth and in my heart. This one wonder-working, almighty God came down from heaven's glory in the image and likeness of man so that those who believe in Him will have their sins washed away in the blood of the Lamb. Praise his Holy name.
I also think those who deny the fullness of the Saviour, the One God made visible, will find their end worse than their beginning. Speaking for myself, I am happy to welcome the unsaved into our midst until it becomes clear they are not for changing, lest we lose sight of the Lord amongst the volume of anti-Christ text. Please forgive me if I have spoken out of turn, but that is what is on my heart, and I need to get it off. Thank you.
I also think those who deny the fullness of the Saviour, the One God made visible, will find their end worse than their beginning. Speaking for myself, I am happy to welcome the unsaved into our midst until it becomes clear they are not for changing, lest we lose sight of the Lord amongst the volume of anti-Christ text. Please forgive me if I have spoken out of turn, but that is what is on my heart, and I need to get it off. Thank you.
“The Angel who redeemed me” (Gen. 48:16.1) “Behold, my Angel shall go before thee.” “The Lord’s Angel encampeth round them that fear Him” (Psalm 34.7). “The Angel of His Presence saved them” (Isa. 63. 9).
Do a word search on the "angel of the Lord." These appearances are called “Theeophanies” (visible appearances of God) or “Christophanies” (visible appearances of Christ) and are without doubt manifestations of the one God prior to the advent of Jesus Christ when God came among us in human form. (George Goodman)
Hello Cooper;
What I blue-lighted we wouldn't have it any other way, brother. Thank you for sharing.
The harvest is plenty!
God bless you, Cooper, and your family.
Thank you, I was worried in case I had said the wrong thing.
That "the form and appearance they take upon themselves in this realm" suggests they change to something else besides angels when they appear on earth to flesh men. Some wrongly think they must put on a human flesh body to appear on earth. But those ideas are nowhere written in God's Word. It is a tradition from men's ideas.
I'm not "fallaciously assuming" anything. You simply might try... to understand what I'm saying, instead adding false pre-conceived notions to what I'm showing per God's written Word. And like I said before, there is no Scripture proving that angels must change their form (outward appearance) in order to appear on earth, like those angels in Genesis 19 that appeared to Lot and the sodomites. I definitely do not... have that interpretation backwards. It is written there, and it's up to each person who reads it to either accept it, or reject it as written. I accept what it says there in Genesis 19.
I find that most brethren don't really understand the difference because of not staying strictly within God's Word. And the word 'physical' is not a word that has to always mean this earthly dimension, which is how you are wrongly trying to apply it.
Our Heavenly Father has an outward Image and Form, even in the Heavenly, and He is a Spirit according to Apostle John. So how can someone try to say that is not about a 'physical' outward form in the Heavenly dimension? That word physical is not tied to a fleshy form, like you're trying to force it to mean.
Have you not ever read Isaiah 6 where Isaiah thought he had died, because he saw The LORD sitting upon His Throne in Heaven? Or Daniel 7:9 when Daniel saw The LORD upon His Throne in Heaven? What kind of form do you think The LORD had in Heaven?
The Bible says nothing about angels having to take on another form just to appear here on earth.
When the children of Israel were in the wilderness, and God rained down from Heaven the 'manna' for them to eat, did the children of Israel have to change into a heavenly form just to be able to eat that Heavenly manna? No, of course not. Neither do angels have to put on a flesh body to eat our food either.
Yes, I'm aware of that.
Look at the Hebrews 7 Chapter closely, revealing who Melchizedek of The Old Testament actually was that met Abraham, and offered him "bread and wine". That Melchizedek, king of righteousness, was our Lord Jesus back in Old Testament times.
You better believe they change to something else. They are SPIRIT beings. If you think they are physical as the defining reality of their individual personages, then I'd simply have to ask for your sourcing for that.
You claim to remain strictly within the confines of God's word, and yet you're adding copious amounts of assumption as arguments from silence from what I'm seeing.
So, how much of Heaven have YOU experienced in order to know that the angels are physical in that realm, as they appear here? What is your infallible acid test as to what descriptors possess enough allegorical resonance so as to keep us from fantasizing physical attributes where they don't belong?
MM
I'm sorry, but the burden of the doubt lay upon your claim that angels must change to a human form in order to appear on earth. No such idea is written anywhere in God's Word, so you are simply making things up.
And yes, staying WITHIN God's Word about it should be enough for any... Christian that believes on The Father and His Son Jesus Christ.
Angels are sexless, spiritual created beings, who when took on physical forms always appeared as males, but are not human!
Are there 3 Persons who have always existed as one God then? When Jesus came to earth, his father was still in heaven. correct?
Those were manifestations of God the Son coming to earth, true!
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