Mystery Babylon

[Lanolin]

Lanolin, thank you for the question. I am glad to see that you have a desire to understand that which is all around us.

The rules of this forum do not allow me to teach you about the "Catching Away" which is actually the next Bible event on God's calender.

Babylon’s description as “the great harlot” refers to the spiritual prostitution and fornication that categorizes the apostate church of the Tribulation which is unfaithful and rejects the Lord Jesus Christ as her husband. “Great” refers to the harlot system which will reach its zenith after the removal of the true church by way of the "CATCHING AWAY" of all true believers.

When that happens, if I am correct and I am sure that I am, there will then be a coming together of all religions on earth under the direction of the FALSE PROPHET. He will direct the world to worship the BEAST who is the A/C. There will be an end times false church just as there is today a FALSE RELIGION.

The prostitute exists today in many forms where we see Chruches that exist which do not worship the Lord Jesus Christ. But after the church is gone, or perhaps even before it is gone, they will unite and become one great ecumenical religious system.

Consider Rev. 17: 2. “With whom (the harlot) the kings of the earth have committed fornication”.

Many centuries ago, the Church took over the world through the rule Of the Roman Empire. The Church could not be determined to be separated from the actual government and that is exactly what will happen when the REVIVED Roman Empire takes over after the "Catching Away".

Real history records for us that early Christianity was a minority religion in a secular state. But all of that changed under Constantine, who wanted to make Christianity coextensive with the state. In other words, everyone who would be born within the boundaries of the Roman Empire would be a Christian.

As a result of this development, the church and state were united. In the eleventh century, Pope Gregory VII struggled with the mightiest king in Western Europe, Henry IV of Germany The question was, Who would have the authority to appoint bishops? The king insisted that that was his prerogative, but the pope maintained that such a conclusion would place the church subordinate to the state and hence corrupt the faith. When King Henry visited the pope’s castle in Italy, he was required to stand barefoot for three days and ask for mercy before receiving the pope’s pardon. It made sense to the pontiff that the church should have authority over the state so that heretics could be punished and doctrinal purity maintained.

Are you saying its roman catholicism...cos you mention the pope.
Isnt the centre of roman catholicsm the Vatican? Do they worship the image of the beast?

 

[Major]

Are you saying its roman catholicism...cos you mention the pope.
Isnt the centre of roman catholicsm the Vatican? Do they worship the image of the beast?

No mam, I actually said...………."there will then be a coming together of all religions on earth under the direction of the FALSE PROPHET.

The world, according to the Scriptures will be lead by ONE man who is False Prophet who will lead the population to worship the Beast and receive his mark.

Revelation 13:16-18...………
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666."

Yes it is.

There is NO Beast to be worshipped as of yet. He has not appeared on the sceen.

 

[Lanolin]

No mam, I actually said...………."there will then be a coming together of all religions on earth under the direction of the FALSE PROPHET.

The world, according to the Scriptures will be lead by ONE man who is False Prophet who will lead the population to worship the Beast and receive his mark.

Revelation 13:16-18...………
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666."

Yes it is.

There is NO Beast to be worshipped as of yet. He has not appeared on the sceen.

Ok but you talked about the church and constantine and the pope. I dont think everyone recognises the pope. Didnt the church split into roman catholcism and orthodox, the orthodox dont accept the pope. Wasnt the pope originally the emperor of the Roman empire?

The centre of which is the vatican. Which is its own city. But thats quite far away from the original Babylon.
I dont believe the beast and the anticchirst are the same. The antichrist worships the beast and makes everyone worship the image of the beast.

What about mahommed who kept saying he was Gods prophet. Although in islam they actually arent allowed to have any images to worship. They do go to Mecca though and seem to worship a big black cube. Would Babylon city be Mecca? Do you think Mahommed was anti christ though because he denied Jesus christ came in the flesh. i dont know if the popes do.

 

[Major]

Ok but you talked about the church and constantine and the pope. I dont think everyone recognises the pope. Didnt the church split into roman catholcism and orthodox, the orthodox dont accept the pope. Wasnt the pope originally the emperor of the Roman empire?

The centre of which is the vatican. Which is its own city. But thats quite far away from the original Babylon.
I dont believe the beast and the anticchirst are the same. The antichrist worships the beast and makes everyone worship the image of the beast.

What about mahommed who kept saying he was Gods prophet. Although in islam they actually arent allowed to have any images to worship. They do go to Mecca though and seem to worship a big black cube. Would Babylon city be Mecca? Do you think Mahommed was anti christ though because he denied Jesus christ came in the flesh. i dont know if the popes do.

You said...…………...
"I dont believe the beast and the anticchirst are the same. ".

The Bible says that they are. Lets confirm this shall we????

Revelation 13:1-2......…...….
"And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority."

Rev. 13:4...............
" And they worshiped the dragon, (Satan) for he had given his authority to the beast,(A/C)and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”

We can see clearly that the "dragon" is Satan and he gives power to the "Beast" who is the Anti-Christ.


Then you said...…......…...…..
"The antichrist worships the beast and makes everyone worship the image of the beast."

I am sorry sister but you are incorrect again on this. And as always lets see what the Scriptures actually say.

Rev. 13:11-18 leave no doubt that the FALSE prophet is the one who leads the world in religious deception......………..
"Then I saw another beast (False Prophet) coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."

So we see that it is the 2nd Beast who is the FALSE PROPHET who causes the world to worship the BEAST who is the A/C.
It is actually the FALSE PROPHET who causes the "mark of the beast" to be forced onto the world.


No one knows where the New Babylon will be located. What we do know is what the Bible says and that is ancient Babylon will never be populated again.

Isaiah 13:19-20...…...……..
“And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees’ excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there”.

Jeremiah 51:37...…...….
“And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwelling place for beasts, an astonishment, and an hissing, without an inhabitant”.

Mohammed claimed many things but he was NOT a prophet of the God of the Bible.
He could not READ or WRITE so there is a real good chance that he did not even produce the Quran. Someone had to write what he said and when they wrote it down he had no idea what it said.

He made a living robbing caravans and was married to a least 2 female children, so if he was anything at all, he was a pedifile.

Was he an Anti-christ????

Certainly he was. Just as was Hitler and Stalin and Mussalini and every other person who denies that Jeus is the Christ.
But those people will pail in comparison to what the coming A/C will be and do.

1 John 2:18...................
"Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour."

 

[Lanolin]

Um ok so we arent looking for anyone who is a man but a beast who appears like a lamb but speaks like a dragon.
The dragon is the antichrist right? After all ist the dragon that persecutes the woman who has the man child which we figure is Jesus. The dragon is one that makes war with the remant of her seed.

I see you quoted a lot of scripture but you inserted a/C where the scripture does not say its the a/c so must be your interpretation to make it obvious.

Ultimately is satan who is THE antichrist so it follows that anyone under his power and authority is anti christ as well.

Anyway back to Babylon , I dont understand if its meant to be a new babylon or whether revelation is just showing whats already happened. Or if its just a name for Jeruslam when it was actually captive to Babylon.
Because revelation shows a new ajeruslam comes down from out of heaven so whats happened to the old one? Its been destroyed and burned up, if we agree that the old city was named babylon or was captured by babylon.

Interestingly the kjv says Babylon becomes a dwelling place for dragons. Do you reckon the bottomless pit is where Babylon is.

 

[Major]

Um ok so we arent looking for anyone who is a man but a beast who appears like a lamb but speaks like a dragon.
The dragon is the antichrist right? After all ist the dragon that persecutes the woman who has the man child which we figure is Jesus. The dragon is one that makes war with the remant of her seed.

I see you quoted a lot of scripture but you inserted a/C where the scripture does not say its the a/c so must be your interpretation to make it obvious.

Ultimately is satan who is THE antichrist so it follows that anyone under his power and authority is anti christ as well.

Anyway back to Babylon , I dont understand if its meant to be a new babylon or whether revelation is just showing whats already happened. Or if its just a name for Jeruslam when it was actually captive to Babylon.
Because revelation shows a new ajeruslam comes down from out of heaven so whats happened to the old one? Its been destroyed and burned up, if we agree that the old city was named babylon or was captured by babylon.

Interestingly the kjv says Babylon becomes a dwelling place for dragons. Do you reckon the bottomless pit is where Babylon is.

Lanolin......if you want me to respond to your posts, you must use the "REPLY" option in the lower right hand corner. If you do not do that I have no idea you posted anything to me. I just happened to see this post by accident or I would not have seen it. I know you have been asked to do this because I for one have asked you to do it. Is there a reason WHY you refuse to do this so we will know who you are speaking to?????

The answer to your question then is NO.

The beast will be a MAN, a human being according the Bible in 2 Thess. 2:3-4...……...………
"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the MAN of lawlessness is revealed, the MAN doomed to destruction. HE will oppose and will exalt HIMSELF over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that HE sets HIMSELF up in God's temple, proclaiming HIMSELF to be God.”

HE will come upon the seen after the Church is removed.

2 Thess. 2:6-8...…….
"And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming".

Then the answer again about the dragon is NO. The "Dragon" is John's description of SATAN.

Revelation 20:2...…......
" He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. "

The Dragon is SATAN.
The Beast is the Anti-Christ, a human being/MAN.
The False Prophet is the 2nd Beast of Rev. 13 and HE is also a human being/MAN.

Lanolin...….I simply used the A/C instead of typing out the whole word "Anti-Christ".

I can see that you have not done a lot of Biblical study on this subject. I would suggest that you pick something else as this subject can tend to be confusing if you are not grounded in the basics of Biblical theology especially the book of Daniel.


Revelation does NOT use the phrase "NEW Babylon". That is something YOU just said not the Scriptures. The Babylon John saw was the capital city of the Anti-Christ system in Chapter 18, and as of today we do not know what or where it is. It could be lots of places but where ever it is John sees it being destroyed in ONE hour and ships avoid it meaning that it is probably a city with a large sea port.

IT IS NOT JERSUALEM!!! The New Jerusalem you mentioned is the "Bride of Christ, the Home of the Church". It will come down from heaven after the 1000 year rule of Christ, suspended above where Jerusalem is now.

Revelation 21:1-2...........
"Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. then I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband."

In the future, please ask ONE question at a time and lets try to focus on one thing at a time instead of rambling all around.

 

[Lanolin]

Lanolin......if you want me to respond to your posts, you must use the "REPLY" option in the lower right hand corner. If you do not do that I have no idea you posted anything to me. I just happened to see this post by accident or I would not have seen it. I know you have been asked to do this because I for one have asked you to do it. Is there a reason WHY you refuse to do this so we will know who you are speaking to?????

The answer to your question then is NO.

The beast will be a MAN, a human being according the Bible in 2 Thess. 2:3-4...……...………
"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the MAN of lawlessness is revealed, the MAN doomed to destruction. HE will oppose and will exalt HIMSELF over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that HE sets HIMSELF up in God's temple, proclaiming HIMSELF to be God.”

HE will come upon the seen after the Church is removed.

2 Thess. 2:6-8...…….
"And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming".

Then the answer again about the dragon is NO. The "Dragon" is John's description of SATAN.

Revelation 20:2...…......
" He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. "

The Dragon is SATAN.
The Beast is the Anti-Christ, a human being/MAN.
The False Prophet is the 2nd Beast of Rev. 13 and HE is also a human being/MAN.

Lanolin...….I simply used the A/C instead of typing out the whole word "Anti-Christ".

I can see that you have not done a lot of Biblical study on this subject. I would suggest that you pick something else as this subject can tend to be confusing if you are not grounded in the basics of Biblical theology especially the book of Daniel.


Revelation does NOT use the phrase "NEW Babylon". That is something YOU just said not the Scriptures. The Babylon John saw was the capital city of the Anti-Christ system in Chapter 18, and as of today we do not know what or where it is. It could be lots of places but where ever it is John sees it being destroyed in ONE hour and ships avoid it meaning that it is probably a city with a large sea port.

IT IS NOT JERSUALEM!!! The New Jerusalem you mentioned is the "Bride of Christ, the Home of the Church". It will come down from heaven after the 1000 year rule of Christ, suspended above where Jerusalem is now.

Revelation 21:1-2...........
"Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. then I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband."

In the future, please ask ONE question at a time and lets try to focus on one thing at a time instead of rambling all around.

I am sorry its hard for me to underrstand you. I dont reply sometimes because i forget especially if you have written a looooong post. And I am only writing a short reply cos its obvious that mine comes after yours. And nobody else has posted in this thread. Sorry.

I thought the false prophet would be a man, but it clearly says he would be under the power of the beast. I dont know if he does some shapeshifting?

Thank for being patient with me. I am reading about Babylon in this book about the archaeolgy of the bible. It was destroyed completely and nothing is there now. Perhaps revelation is referring to that, or is it referring to a other city that is like the original babylon. What I do know is that Jerusalem was taken over in 586 BC by the babylonians. The israelites were taken captive and Jerusalem destroyed. Then later it got rebuilt again, but I suppose the babylonian influences remained.

 

[Major]

I am sorry its hard for me to underrstand you. I dont reply sometimes because i forget especially if you have written a looooong post. And I am only writing a short reply cos its obvious that mine comes after yours. And nobody else has posted in this thread. Sorry.

I thought the false prophet would be a man, but it clearly says he would be under the power of the beast. I dont know if he does some shapeshifting?

Thank for being patient with me. I am reading about Babylon in this book about the archaeolgy of the bible. It was destroyed completely and nothing is there now. Perhaps revelation is referring to that, or is it referring to a other city that is like the original babylon. What I do know is that Jerusalem was taken over in 586 BC by the babylonians. The israelites were taken captive and Jerusalem destroyed. Then later it got rebuilt again, but I suppose the babylonian influences remained.

God bless you sister. The fact is just as clear to me in that the things you say are difficult to understand. As all can see, I am being very patient with you even to the extreme. But allow me to say to you Then when you are shown exactly what the Scriptures say, you seem to reject them out of hand and keep right on posting what you believe.

Now place your thoughts and opinions aside and lets focus only on the Bible!!!

Example...….You just said...…..
"I thought the false prophet would be a man, but it clearly says he would be under the power of the beast. I dont know if he does some shapeshifting?"

Now that is completely your own opinion. I posted for you Revelation 19:20...…......
" Then the beast (the antichrist) was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone."

That Scripture says that TWO people are thrown ALIVE into the Lake of Fire. What else can be considered ALIVE except a human being???????

Rev. 13:11-14..............
"Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and HE spoke as a dragon. HE exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And HE makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. HE performs great miracles".

Please take the time to look up the word "HE" in the original Greek and you will see that it is a PERSONAL PRONOUN which can only mean a MAN.

The Anti-Christ is the BEAST of Revelation and the False Prophet is his religious helper and both are HUMAN BEINGS empowered by the Dragon who is in fact Satan.

Now, again.........….focus on what the Scriptures actually say and not what you think or want them to say.

 

[Lanolin]

God bless you sister. The fact is just as clear to me in that the things you say are difficult to understand. As all can see, I am being very patient with you even to the extreme. But allow me to say to you Then when you are shown exactly what the Scriptures say, you seem to reject them out of hand and keep right on posting what you believe.

Now place your thoughts and opinions aside and lets focus only on the Bible!!!

Example...….You just said...…..
"I thought the false prophet would be a man, but it clearly says he would be under the power of the beast. I dont know if he does some shapeshifting?"

Now that is completely your own opinion. I posted for you Revelation 19:20...…......
" Then the beast (the antichrist) was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone."

That Scripture says that TWO people are thrown ALIVE into the Lake of Fire. What else can be considered ALIVE except a human being???????

Rev. 13:11-14..............
"Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and HE spoke as a dragon. HE exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And HE makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. HE performs great miracles".

Please take the time to look up the word "HE" in the original Greek and you will see that it is a PERSONAL PRONOUN which can only mean a MAN.

The Anti-Christ is the BEAST of Revelation and the False Prophet is his religious helper and both are HUMAN BEINGS empowered by the Dragon who is in fact Satan.

Now, again.........….focus on what the Scriptures actually say and not what you think or want them to say.

But YOU are wanting it to say its a man. When the scriptures say its a beast. A beast could be male or female, but doesnt mean its a man, in that passage. You are also adding thing is ellipses that are not actually in scripture. So please dont do that because you are accusing me of doing exactly what you are doing.

 

[Lanolin]

When we refer to animals we can say if they are male or female. It doesnt mean the animals are men or women. For example, my cat is female but she isnt a woman. Do you understand?

They are also living creatures. Not everything that is he means its a man.

 

[Lanolin]

Look at revelation 20:10

Three beings are cast into the lake of fire. Satan, the beast and the false prophet. Then in verse 13 it says the sea gave up its dead, and they were judged every man according to their works. This is AFTER the first three (devil, beast, and false prophet) are cast into the lake of fire.

I am only reading what scripture says. I am not trying to insert a man where there is no man. The false prophet is described as another beast previously in revelation.

Thessalonians is a different scripture.

I am making a distinction between man and beast here. Revelation shows there are four beasts round the throne and describes them clearly. They are distinct from the elders, who are men. Recall that God made beasts before he made men in his image.

 

[Major]

But YOU are wanting it to say its a man. When the scriptures say its a beast. A beast could be male or female, but doesnt mean its a man, in that passage. You are also adding thing is ellipses that are not actually in scripture. So please dont do that because you are accusing me of doing exactly what you are doing.

No Lanolin, that is not the case at all. I did not add one single word....……..did you read and notice the highlighted words of the Scripture that said....HE??????

Did you then do as I suggested and use a Greek lexicon to see the actual meaning of the Word HE in Rev. 13:12-17 ????

If the false prophet was a woman, don't you think that God would have instructed John to say WOMAN, instead of MAN?

I my sister am reading exactly what the Bible says and it says......…"HE".
HE may mean "beast or woman" in N.Z. but here in the south of the USA...……."HE" means "HE".

As I have pointed put to you, you are still imposing your "wants" instead of accepting what is actually said in the Scriptures.
As long as you continue to do that you will be in a state of confusion.

Lets all read Rev. 13:11-12...……..Again says...….
"Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and HE had two horns like a lamb and HE spoke as a dragon. He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And HE makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He exercises all the authority of the first beast on his behalf and compels the earth and those who live on it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.

New American Standard Bible
He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.

King James Bible
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Those are all masculine neuter pronouns in the original Greek grammer and literally mean "MAN" and does not mean "humanity".

 

[Major]

Look at revelation 20:10

Three beings are cast into the lake of fire. Satan, the beast and the false prophet. Then in verse 13 it says the sea gave up its dead, and they were judged every man according to their works. This is AFTER the first three (devil, beast, and false prophet) are cast into the lake of fire.

I am only reading what scripture says. I am not trying to insert a man where there is no man. The false prophet is described as another beast previously in revelation.

Thessalonians is a different scripture.

I am making a distinction between man and beast here. Revelation shows there are four beasts round the throne and describes them clearly. They are distinct from the elders, who are men. Recall that God made beasts before he made men in his image.

Yes, 3 beings are cast into the lake of fire.

1 is Satan. He is NOT a human being.

John tells us where the beast comes from---- “the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit” in Rev. 11:7. This “beast” is not a human being. Humans do not come out of this pit. The apostle John wants us to know this beast is SATAN by telling us his origins.

2 is the Anti-Christ a human man.
3 Is the false prophet, a human man.

When the devil and the beast and the false prophet were thrown in the lake of fire, we read no word about a second death.

However, when human beings are thrown in there, it says second death.

That is what the Scriptures say sister.

The Bible interprets itself by telling us that the BEAST of the bottomless pit is SATAN and the the antichrist and false prophet are human men and also referred to as beasts as well which is "SYMBOLIC".

My dear Lanolin, the Bible consistently refers to the Antichrist and false prophet as men throughout scriptures. Speaking of the anti-christ. the Bible says HIS name is the 666, it says HE is the man of sin. Here are some verses which clearly show the Antichrist will be a MAN- male:

2 Thess. 2:3...……...
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

Rev. 13:18......……...
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Clearly, the Bible teaches the Antichrist and false prophet will be TWO REAL HUMAN MEN.

Please consider the words of the Scriptures and put aside your thoughts and opinions.


Then you said...…...….....
"Revelation shows there are four beasts round the throne and describes them clearly. They are distinct from the elders, who are men. "

That is correct but it certainly has nothing to do with the question at hand which you posed.

Rev. 4 :7 says...….....
"And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle."

Also in
Revelation 19:4...……….
"And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who was seated on the throne, saying, “Amen. Hallelujah"

They are correctly and literally defined as "LIVING BEINGS".
These beings are an exalted order of angels whose purpose is primarily that of worship. They are very similar to the beings in Ezekiel 10 and Isaiah 6:1–3, and they are in some ways involved in God’s divine justice.

 

[Lanolin]

You are getting close but you are still mixing It all up and not really making sense.

You keep inisisting about there being ONE MAN that is 'the antichrist' when its never even mentioned in revelation.

The only time the bible mentions anti christ, is Johns letters and Johns doesnt say its just one man, just that there are many anti christs, and there is a spirit of anti christ...anyone who denies Jesus in the flesh is anti christ.


2 john also says MANY deceivers are entered into this world who deny Jesus came in the flesh.

These are all men who are anti Jesus. There are many of them not just one.

There are many kings who give their kingdom to the beast. Not just one. Actually there are ten it says in revelation 17:12

The false prophet is a beast, he is not a man. See revelation 13. Having the number of a man doesnt necesssrily mean he is a man. He causes people to worship an image of the beast. The image speaks. Now why would a man need to do this when a man could just speak himself.

Consider, back in the OT. Why did aaron make a golden calf and get the israelites to worship this calf. He said it was a god. The calf is a beast, it is not a man, not a human. Aaron didnt make a statue of himself! Or any other kind of human being. He got the israelites to make an idol of a calf.

Anyhow I hope you can grasp this. Because it seems like you just dont want to consider what scripture reveals about these beasts.

 

[Lanolin]

Ok going back to Mystery babylon, the woman is sitting upon a beast. It has seven heads and ten horns. I am reading chapter 17.

The woman (the city) sits on seven mountains. Which city sits on seven mountains?
The ten horns are the ten kings. Which city regins over ten kings? For one hour? And they are all of one mind.

Vatican city?
New York?
Babylon?
Dubai?
Rome?

 

[Major]

You are getting close but you are still mixing It all up and not really making sense.

You keep inisisting about there being ONE MAN that is 'the antichrist' when its never even mentioned in revelation.

The only time the bible mentions anti christ, is Johns letters and Johns doesnt say its just one man, just that there are many anti christs, and there is a spirit of anti christ...anyone who denies Jesus in the flesh is anti christ.


2 john also says MANY deceivers are entered into this world who deny Jesus came in the flesh.

These are all men who are anti Jesus. There are many of them not just one.

There are many kings who give their kingdom to the beast. Not just one. Actually there are ten it says in revelation 17:12

The false prophet is a beast, he is not a man. See revelation 13. Having the number of a man doesnt necesssrily mean he is a man. He causes people to worship an image of the beast. The image speaks. Now why would a man need to do this when a man could just speak himself.

Consider, back in the OT. Why did aaron make a golden calf and get the israelites to worship this calf. He said it was a god. The calf is a beast, it is not a man, not a human. Aaron didnt make a statue of himself! Or any other kind of human being. He got the israelites to make an idol of a calf.

Anyhow I hope you can grasp this. Because it seems like you just dont want to consider what scripture reveals about these beasts.

Actually Lanolin, it is not me who is failing to grasp what the Scriptures say. I say that to you with love and respect and I actually do not know how to tell you what I have said now several times.

I have shown the exact words of the Scriptures, explained the meanings to you logically and carefully, and yet every time you reject those explanations and continue to say that the A/C and false prophets are NOT MEN but instead are "beasts".

Let me ask you this...….Do you think that I am telling you lies which are not found in the Bible even after I post them for you?????

Yes to your comment about 2 John. The prevailing spirit in the world is the spirit of Antichrist, which has been working since the earliest days of the church. . The Bible makes it clear that the true church of Christ is made up of all those who deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow Him. The spirit of Antichrist can be summed up as every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

There has been an ANTI_CHRIST spirit working in the world since there was a Christ who came unto the world. SO YES, there are MANY- MANY anti-christs in the world BUT that is not the point of our conversation or this thread.

There will be ONE (1) Anti-Christ who comes to power in the last days before Christ returns. HE will me a MAN a human being.

We as Christians and the church of believers WILL NOT KNOW WHO HE IS.

2nd Thessalonians 2:3...…...…..
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction".

Do you see the words..."AND THE MAN of lawlessness".

I have explained this to you now 3 times. In the original Greek the word MAN in that verse is a personal pronoun in the neuter which means MAN and does not mean "Humanity or a Beast". It means exactly what it says......……."AND THE MAN".

The coming Anti-Christ will be a human MAN, controlled and led by the Dragon who is SATAN.

The Anti-Christ is described by John as a "Beast" because of the terrible things he does while in power. He is NOT a Beast LITERALLY but symbolically John sees his actions as a beast who kills and destroys.


You said...............….
"There are many kings who give their kingdom to the beast. Not just one. Actually there are ten it says in revelation 17:12".

You almost got it right......…......….It is Rev. 13:1.........…
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

The image of this beast comes directly from Daniel with the intention for us to see that this beast is Revelation 13 is the fulfillment or arrival of the beast predicted in Daniel 7.


Then once again you said.................
"The false prophet is a beast, he is not a man. "

That is incorrect my sister. The "False Prophet" will be a MAN.

Revelation 13:15-16...........
"And HE had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And HE causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads".

HE = MAN, Masculine Greek Pronoun the same as the A/C. He is a MAN who is fierce as a beast in that he kills and destroys. Beast is a word of Symbolic explination and not a LITERAL Beast.

 

[Major]

Ok going back to Mystery babylon, the woman is sitting upon a beast. It has seven heads and ten horns. I am reading chapter 17.

The woman (the city) sits on seven mountains. Which city sits on seven mountains?
The ten horns are the ten kings. Which city regins over ten kings? For one hour? And they are all of one mind.

Vatican city?
New York?
Babylon?
Dubai?
Rome?

It is not known at this time.

Again......2 Thessoloniians 2:3-8...……...
"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction (Anti-Christ)4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the LORD Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

The MAN, the Anti-christ will not be known until the church is removed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Lanolin]

It is not known at this time.

Again......2 Thessoloniians 2:3-8...……...
"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction (Anti-Christ)4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the LORD Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

The MAN, the Anti-christ will not be known until the church is removed by the Holy Spirit.

Ok i know thessalonians says this. Not arguing with scripture there. You still want to insert anti christ into that scripture ok I get thats your opinion.
But then how does this relate to mystery babylon, thats what im trying to find out.
Revelation tells is its a woman riding a beast, (note, a woman, not a man) and that the kings of the earth fornicate with her. There are quite a number of kings, seven..not just one.
Another scripture talks about a false prophet, but describes it as another beast. It does say it has the number of a man, but not that its actually a man. Because people will worship the image of the beast, not the image of a man.

So reading all this, and trying to piece it all together so it makes sense, would you say this man of lawlessness is possessed by a beast, puts up an image of this beast, cos hes given power to the beast to help him carry out his wickedness, and Jesus when he returns will reveal this man (is it just one man? ) or will he reveal the beast behind this man.

Or the man behind the beast.

Now Im kinda not sure if these seven kings mentioned in revelation are seven kings in succession or they are all at the same time. If thessalonians tells us its a man of lawlessness, presumably its just ONE man right? Not seven of them? Thats what I dont quite understand.

 

[Lanolin]

I had thought, and I maybe wrong its only speculation, that it was muhammed. And he was trying to say allah is God. When hes not.

But muhammed died didnt he, even though muslims claim he ascended up to heaven from mount moriah and now theyve built the dome of the rock where the temple used to be.

 

[Major]

STAFF EDIT to remove quote which violated Forum Rule 3.1
___________________________________________________________________




I can certainly grasp how that may be the case. There is NO doubt in my mind that the Great Harlot of Revelation 17 will be a great RELIGIOUS system.

I am of the opinion that after the "Catching Away" of 1 Thess. 4 and Chapter 2 there will be a need to fill the void left behind.

Peoples on this earth of ALL religions will come together in one great ecumenical movement in order to find out what has happened to all the missing people.

The Muslims, Hindues, Buddests, Baptists, Catholics and everyone else wil then be the Great Harlot upon which the Anti0christ will ride and contole.

This totally apostate organization will multiply and support each other for awhile. This "Church" will accept the Anti-Christ as the person who can save the earth and will aloow this man to rise to power.