Mystery Babylon

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Ok i know thessalonians says this. Not arguing with scripture there. You still want to insert anti christ into that scripture ok I get thats your opinion.
But then how does this relate to mystery babylon, thats what im trying to find out.
Revelation tells is its a woman riding a beast, (note, a woman, not a man) and that the kings of the earth fornicate with her. There are quite a number of kings, seven..not just one.
Another scripture talks about a false prophet, but describes it as another beast. It does say it has the number of a man, but not that its actually a man. Because people will worship the image of the beast, not the image of a man.

So reading all this, and trying to piece it all together so it makes sense, would you say this man of lawlessness is possessed by a beast, puts up an image of this beast, cos hes given power to the beast to help him carry out his wickedness, and Jesus when he returns will reveal this man (is it just one man? ) or will he reveal the beast behind this man.

Or the man behind the beast.

Now Im kinda not sure if these seven kings mentioned in revelation are seven kings in succession or they are all at the same time. If thessalonians tells us its a man of lawlessness, presumably its just ONE man right? Not seven of them? Thats what I dont quite understand.
Lanolin. I will try my best to explain it for you again. IF YOU do not accept or like what I try to show you, please just simply say something like...…."I do not agree with you".

That being said, ...…......lets once again look at the Scriptures instead of opinions shall we?

2 Thess. 2:3......….....
"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition."

"THAT DAY" is the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ physically to the earth. Now with your Bible open please read where it says that ..............
"that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first".

That has been taught by many great Bible scholars over the years to mean APOSTASY. I am only an old country boy but that is what I believe as well. The Greek word that is used here by Paul translated as "Falling Away" is APOSTASIA. The actual word means ......"Departure or removal from".

So then by using the original Greek grammer we can see that he is saying that before the DAY OF THE LORD can come, there must be some kind of removal. I personally think that there will be TWO kinds of removing to take place. YES Lanolin, that is my personal opinion.

1. The group of born again believers in Christ Jesus will be removed and that is what is seen in 1 Thess. 4:14-17.
2. The organized church made up of all kinds of religious people left will then depart from the faith.

The departure of the TRUE church will lead into the total apostatizing of the left behind people. That church will completly depart from the Christian faith as defined in the Bible.

Now again.....look in your Bible in verse #3 again and you see the words............ "and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition."

The Bible says the MAN OF SIN. The anti-Christ will be a MAN just as the Bible verse you just read says so!!!!!!!

THIS MAN
you just read about will then be taken over and controlled completely by Satan who is referred to as a "Dragon". He, the dragon = Satan and he will give power to the MAN who is the Anti-Christ so that to the world his actions of ruthlessness and murder, and liing will make him appear as a "Beast".

Revelation 13:4...….....
"And they worshipped the dragon which gave power to the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like to the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

In Biblical prophecy, the word “beast” can describe a wild, dangerous animal or it can refer to a gentile human being or a kingdom, or a false church or a dictatorial leader of a kingdom or church. CONTEXT and commen sense reading will dictate which one it is.

When HE is revealed, the 7 year tribulation will be under way as described by Daniel in Daniel 9:24 ...….
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."
What did Daniel say would be done......…………….
1). "Finish the transgression"
2). "Make an end of sin"
3). "Make atonement for iniquity" (accept Jesus’ sacrifice)
4). "Bring in everlasting righteousness" ( Reign of King Jesus )
5). "Seal up vision and prophecy" ( fulfillment of prophecy about Jesus and Israel )
6). "Anoint the most holy place" Hebrew “anoint most Holy”

The 70 weeks is speaking of years. A week = 7 years 70 weeks = 490 years

Daniel says that 7 weeks (49 years) until the rebuilding of Jerusalem, walls, temple.
62 more weeks (434 years) until the Messiah would come and be cut off. (killed)

Jesus Christ was crucified or cut off which ended the prophesy at 69 weeks or 483 years!!!!!!!

This totals 483 years leaving 7 years (1 week) left unfulfilled. IT has to be fulfilled or God Lied!!!!!!!

This 7 years will be fulfilled in a time known as the great tribulation, also called time of Jacobs trouble. (Dan.12:1) and that is the very same 7 years that will be ruled by the Anti-Christ after the Rapture and the Apostasy.

This 7 years will not only be tribulation for Israel but also the whole world.

The CHUCH of the Anti-Christ will come to power during these last 7 years and that religious system that he uses to do so IS THE BABYLONINIAN RELIGIOUSE Harlot of Revelation 17.

When used symbolically, a woman is always intended throughout the Scripture to signify a spiritual or religious movement. If a good woman, it is "Jehovah's wife" or "the bride of Christ". If an evil woman, such as "a prostitute," it represents the evil religious system of idolatry.

Since the woman who rides the beast gets her authority from the beast, the Holy Spirit uses this description to show how religious Babylon and governmental Babylon are so intertwined they are presented together. However, they are destroyed at different times. The prostitute (religious Babylon), is destroyed by the "beast and the kings of the earth," who "hate the prostitute" and kill her.
 
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Lanolin. I will try my best to explain it for you again. IF YOU do not accept or like what I try to show you, please just simply say something like...…."I do not agree with you".

That being said, ...…......lets once again look at the Scriptures instead of opinions shall we?

2 Thess. 2:3......….....
"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition."

"THAT DAY" is the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ physically to the earth. Now with your Bible open please read where it says that ..............
"that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first".

That has been taught by many great Bible scholars over the years to mean APOSTASY. I am only an old country boy but that is what I believe as well. The Greek word that is used here by Paul translated as "Falling Away" is APOSTASIA. The actual word means ......"Departure or removal from".

So then by using the original Greek grammer we can see that he is saying that before the DAY OF THE LORD can come, there must be some kind of removal. I personally think that there will be TWO kinds of removing to take place. YES Lanolin, that is my personal opinion.

1. The group of born again believers in Christ Jesus will be removed and that is what is seen in 1 Thess. 4:14-17.
2. The organized church made up of all kinds of religious people left will then depart from the faith.

The departure of the TRUE church will lead into the total apostatizing of the left behind people. That church will completly depart from the Christian faith as defined in the Bible.

Now again.....look in your Bible in verse #3 again and you see the words............ "and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition."

The Bible says the MAN OF SIN. The anti-Christ will be a MAN just as the Bible verse you just read says so!!!!!!!

THIS MAN
you just read about will then be taken over and controlled completely by Satan who is referred to as a "Dragon". He, the dragon = Satan and he will give power to the MAN who is the Anti-Christ so that to the world his actions of ruthlessness and murder, and liing will make him appear as a "Beast".

Revelation 13:4...….....
"And they worshipped the dragon which gave power to the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like to the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

In Biblical prophecy, the word “beast” can describe a wild, dangerous animal or it can refer to a gentile human being or a kingdom, or a false church or a dictatorial leader of a kingdom or church. CONTEXT and commen sense reading will dictate which one it is.

When HE is revealed, the 7 year tribulation will be under way as described by Daniel in Daniel 9:24 ...….
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."
What did Daniel say would be done......…………….
1). "Finish the transgression"
2). "Make an end of sin"
3). "Make atonement for iniquity" (accept Jesus’ sacrifice)
4). "Bring in everlasting righteousness" ( Reign of King Jesus )
5). "Seal up vision and prophecy" ( fulfillment of prophecy about Jesus and Israel )
6). "Anoint the most holy place" Hebrew “anoint most Holy”

The 70 weeks is speaking of years. A week = 7 years 70 weeks = 490 years

Daniel says that 7 weeks (49 years) until the rebuilding of Jerusalem, walls, temple.
62 more weeks (434 years) until the Messiah would come and be cut off. (killed)

Jesus Christ was crucified or cut off which ended the prophesy at 69 weeks or 483 years!!!!!!!

This totals 483 years leaving 7 years (1 week) left unfulfilled. IT has to be fulfilled or God Lied!!!!!!!

This 7 years will be fulfilled in a time known as the great tribulation, also called time of Jacobs trouble. (Dan.12:1) and that is the very same 7 years that will be ruled by the Anti-Christ after the Rapture and the Apostasy.

This 7 years will not only be tribulation for Israel but also the whole world.

The CHUCH of the Anti-Christ will come to power during these last 7 years and that religious system that he uses to do so IS THE BABYLONINIAN RELIGIOUSE Harlot of Revelation 17.

When used symbolically, a woman is always intended throughout the Scripture to signify a spiritual or religious movement. If a good woman, it is "Jehovah's wife" or "the bride of Christ". If an evil woman, such as "a prostitute," it represents the evil religious system of idolatry.

Since the woman who rides the beast gets her authority from the beast, the Holy Spirit uses this description to show how religious Babylon and governmental Babylon are so intertwined they are presented together. However, they are destroyed at different times. The prostitute (religious Babylon), is destroyed by the "beast and the kings of the earth," who "hate the prostitute" and kill her.
Ok this is your view but I dont agree with everything you have written, that is all. The two kinds of removal bit.
I think that complicates everything, and its really confusing to me.
 
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Im sure someone posted something about islam but they got removed I didnt notice anything demeaning about their posts. I dont think they were hackers.
But people ought not to fight about this if they have different views just agree to disagree.

If people were looking for a man of sin and an anti christ wouldnt muhammed fit the bill.

He denied Jesus came in the flesh. People claimed he ascened to heaven, he founded a huge empire and religion, islam. This religion is very anti christ. Theyve put a monument where the holy of holies spot was ...the dome of the rock.

Islam has spread over many nations. And some of their cities are luxurious to extreme.

Many nations trade with them for oil...and oil fuels all modern industry. Present day Kuwait and iraq is where ancient Babylon used to be.

We know islam persecutes christians. It is very difficult to be openly christian in an islamic state. You can get beheaded.
 
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Ok this is your view but I dont agree with everything you have written, that is all. The two kinds of removal bit.
I think that complicates everything, and its really confusing to me.
Also just want to add your posts seem to make out that Jesus church is an unfaithful church. No it isnt. The church is made up of faithful believers. Thats the whole reason for it.
Israel who had an earlier covenant and broke it and didnt accept the new covenant in Jesus blood, are the ones who are apostate and unfaithful, not the church...which is made up of those who are faithful to God, and didnt turn to idolatry.

People can believe in God and certainly jews and arabs both do, but they dont believe in His son. If you read the entire chapter 2 of thessalonians paul isnt talking of an apostate CHURCH, he was saying there were people who ddnt believe in Jesus. These were all those who hadnt acknowledged Jesus is Lord..in other words, everyone else who desnt believe. Not the church itself.
 
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Also just want to add your posts seem to make out that Jesus church is an unfaithful church. No it isnt. The church is made up of faithful believers. Thats the whole reason for it.
Israel who had an earlier covenant and broke it and didnt accept the new covenant in Jesus blood, are the ones who are apostate and unfaithful, not the church...which is made up of those who are faithful to God, and didnt turn to idolatry.

People can believe in God and certainly jews and arabs both do, but they dont believe in His son. If you read the entire chapter 2 of thessalonians paul isnt talking of an apostate CHURCH, he was saying there were people who ddnt believe in Jesus. These were all those who hadnt acknowledged Jesus is Lord..in other words, everyone else who desnt believe. Not the church itself.
Lanolin......Please, Please try to understand that I am not making anything out.

I am simple giving you Bible information and teaching. AGAIN, if you do not accept it simpley say....I do not agree with you.

Now, open your Bible and read the 2nd 3rd chapter and you will see clearly how the Lord Jesus speaks of the 7 churchs.

The letters to the 7 churches represent a 3 fold application of exegesis.

1. Contemporary..
They had a direct message to the local churches of John's day.

2. Composite.
Each one is a composite of the church. There is something that is applicable to all churches in all ages in each message to each individual church.

3. Chronological.
The panoramic history of the church is given in these 7 churches. The prophetic reality and real time history has been fulfilled and is now church history which makes these chapers important.

The 7th church is the church in Laodicea. It represents the apostate (Falling Away) church.

Now with your Bible open please notice Rev. 3:15 and 16 when Christ speaks of the Laodicea church...…...…..
"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

The only church which Christ rejects is this one.


This church will be the "End Time" church of COMPROMISE. It will have left the faith. It will be a combination of all the religions left after the Catching Away of 1 Thess. It will be IMO the vehicle or the instrument that the A/C will ride which is the harlot of Rev. 17...…...Mystery Babylon.

If you miss this and do not understand then you will always be confused on this subject.

As for Paul writing to the apostate church in Thessalonians and it being an apostate church. I do not recall saying such a thing.
Just as there are non-believers in churches today, there was the same thing in Pauls day. His letter was to the church and NOT to a person.
 
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Ok this is your view but I dont agree with everything you have written, that is all. The two kinds of removal bit.
I think that complicates everything, and its really confusing to me.
I can not help you with your confusion of the "Removal bit" as we are not allowed to discuss the Rapture.

However you can open your Bible to 1 Thessolonians 4:13-18 and read it for yourself.

Then simply go to. ……https://www.raptureready.com/ and you will be able to read and understand what it is.

Staff Note: The link in this post goes to a website which sells goods or services or solicits donations. Members are advised to be wary of ANY such donation requests or sales and to research the group making the request or sales and to PRAY before sending ANY donation or before purchasing any goods or services.
 
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Its ok we just agree to disagree.

Some people think the 7 churches are church ages I dont agree with that the seven different churches are just different kinds of churches and all of what Jesus warned them about to repent of can apply to all believers. Its not that one comes after the other chronologically they are in different locations.

It is just your interpretion that makes them out to be 'ages' , and the church in laodecia is not the 'only church that Christ rejects' because Jesus gives different warnings to those in the six other churches to repent.

Maybe YOU identify with the church of laeodecia cos you may say you are rich, I dont know...but actually not all churches in this day and age are rich.
 
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Major I am not confused about what I read in the Bible but the way you interpret it is really confusing to me and doesnt make sense. Maybe makes perfect sense to you, but not for me. Also yes, you are giving scriputre but also you are also interpeting it in a certain way. I can see that otherwise I wouldnt be disagreeing with you because your interpetarion doesnt totally match up with what scripture says.

And Its really ok you dont need to feel you need to explain it all the way YOU see it.

I can ask Him myself and He will show me scriptures but its His way not to reveal everything at once.
For example, some people have totally decided that the great city that is called mystery Babylon is meaning Rome. But my further investigations of scripture show me thats not really so. So I am coming to my own conclusions which may not necessarily be the ones you are teaching or were taught.

I think people need to make up their own minds of the matter and be a Berean and search scriptures to see if these things are so, before we go making definite claims about things, and then go round suggesting anyone who differs is wrong and not diligently reading and searching scripture as well.
 
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Thessalonians, yes it says theres is a man of sin and son of perdition who will be revealed at the brigtness of Jesus coming.
Why revealed, was he hidden before? He shows signs and wonders after Satan working..

The connection to the beast and false prophet in revelation.

The following are my thoughts, you may agree or disagree. Muhammeds followers did set up a shrine to himself where the holy of holies now is. The koran does say that he ascended to heaven, and he made a night journey on a winged horse from that spot. And many who believe a lie say allah is God. Muhaamed did claim he was Gods prophet.
Muhammed was a man. He also denied Jesus resurrection, and gets all who follow him to deny this also everytime they pray.

The only thing is, do his followers worship an image of the beast. The beast described in revelation is like a leopard. Feet like a bear, and mouth like a lion. Its hard not to take this literally and if it was an image it woul be a fantastical animal that nobocdy has ever seen before. But what exactly is this image, is it OF the beast itself or just an image TO the beast. What kind of image is it? Rev 13:14
A static image?

Or is it just like ...TV? TV is totally image based. But also the image SPEAKS. Now todays thers techno,gy that makes pictures or images move and speak...animations. Film and tv. They used to call film moving pictures. Maybe its not just a symbol maybe its meaning people will worship whats on TV. Could the image of the beast just be TV. You can make up all sorts of special effects on film and movie production. And make people believe a lie because they saw it on tv or in a movie.
 

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Major and Lanolin - Just a suggestion... BEFORE THIS THREAD CONTINUES - Please tell each other which Bible version and other specific research sources each of you are using. Your disagreements may be due to the early translation differences in source information that you are both using and the interpretation of those reference materials. Give it some thought and perhaps common ground can be found somehow.

On behalf of the CFS Staff, thank you.
 
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Major and Lanolin - Just a suggestion... BEFORE THIS THREAD CONTINUES - Please tell each other which Bible version and other specific research sources each of you are using. Your disagreements may be due to the early translation differences in source information that you are both using and the interpretation of those reference materials. Give it some thought and perhaps common ground can be found somehow.

On behalf of the CFS Staff, thank you.
Sorry Pastor Gary yea it might be we just reading different Bibles..?

I'm just reading plain KJV or AV as its known elsewhere.
I'm just reading from this Holy Bible am not referring to any outside sources or teachings or commentaries. My Bible does not have commentaries or footnotes in it. Its just plain scripture.

I did mention earlier of one reference I had looked at before if you go way back to beginning the posts a book about mystery babylon by joel richardson. But I returned it to the library Im not actually referring to it now, but it did give a case that mystery babylon and the beast has links to islam. Islam is a huge religion worldwide now and it does reference the Bible in the Koran, but of couse it does claim different interpretations of the Bible and says that it was an incomplete revelation. I mean if satan wanted his own version of a Holy book he can easily claim the Bible wasnt true and make up another version of scripture -the Koran and get people to read that instead.

Of course am checking scripture to see if these things are so, am not just taking Mr Richardsons words for it or totally agree with his theories, that he thinks the great city is Mecca but for me its more convincing than others that claim its the vatican or Rome.

Im more inclined to believe its Jerusalem is the great city spoken of as mystery Babylon, not Rome or any other city. Why because when Babylon took the israelites captive and they returned to the city they bought idolatrous and covetous practices back with them. Remember how Daniel wouldnt eat the rich foodsand meats when he was captive in Babylon.
 
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Sorry Pastor Gary yea it might be we just reading different Bibles..?

I'm just reading plain KJV or AV as its known elsewhere.
I'm just reading from this Holy Bible am not referring to any outside sources or teachings or commentaries. My Bible does not have commentaries or footnotes in it. Its just plain scripture.

I did mention earlier of one reference I had looked at before if you go way back to beginning the posts a book about mystery babylon by joel richardson. But I returned it to the library Im not actually referring to it now, but it did give a case that mystery babylon and the beast has links to islam. Islam is a huge religion worldwide now and it does reference the Bible in the Koran, but of couse it does claim different interpretations of the Bible and says that it was an incomplete revelation. I mean if satan wanted his own version of a Holy book he can easily claim the Bible wasnt true and make up another version of scripture -the Koran and get people to read that instead.

Of course am checking scripture to see if these things are so, am not just taking Mr Richardsons words for it or totally agree with his theories, that he thinks the great city is Mecca but for me its more convincing than others that claim its the vatican or Rome.

Im more inclined to believe its Jerusalem is the great city spoken of as mystery Babylon, not Rome or any other city. Why because when Babylon took the israelites captive and they returned to the city they bought idolatrous and covetous practices back with them. Remember how Daniel wouldnt eat the rich foodsand meats when he was captive in Babylon.
I have read many productions of people who also believe the the Mystery Babylon City of Rev. is Jerusalem. When considering Scripture it is very possible that may the case.

The city of Mystery Babylon may be Jerusalem when it embraces the Antichrist as if he was their long awaited Messiah. The reason that she is referred to as a “harlot” is the same reason she was referred to as a harlot hundreds of times in scripture, because she is committing spiritual adultery.

Isaiah 1:21...…….
“How is the faithful city become an harlot!

Consider just a few similarities between Mystery Babylon and Jerusalem:

1.) Mystery Babylon is said to kill the prophets in Revelation 18:24.

Yet the only city that has ever been recorded as killing the prophets is Jerusalem:
Matthew 23:37......
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets…”.

2.) The Bible says that Mystery Babylon will be held accountable for ALL the righteous blood shed on the earth.

Yet Jesus said the exact same thing about Jerusalem:
Matt. 23:35...…...
“That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth…”.

However, there is much in the Bible that will not allow Mystery Babylon to be Jerusalem.


Ezek. 5:9 reads...…..
“And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like”. The context will show that this verse has to do with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar. But please note, God said the He would “not do any more the like”.

In other words, when we read the words in the Scriptures we see here God’s promise that He will never again destroy Jerusalem.

It is clear however, that mystery Babylon will indeed be destroyed by God. This verse alone should prove that Jerusalem is not mystery Babylon.

Then there is the fact in Revelation 18:9-13 that merchants in ships see the final destruction of this city as they stand afar off. That tells us that this great city has a SEA PORT which Jerusalem does not have so once again we can see that Jerusalem is probably not Mystery Babylon.
 
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I have read many productions of people who also believe the the Mystery Babylon City of Rev. is Jerusalem. When considering Scripture it is very possible that may the case.

The city of Mystery Babylon may be Jerusalem when it embraces the Antichrist as if he was their long awaited Messiah. The reason that she is referred to as a “harlot” is the same reason she was referred to as a harlot hundreds of times in scripture, because she is committing spiritual adultery.

Isaiah 1:21...…….
“How is the faithful city become an harlot!

Consider just a few similarities between Mystery Babylon and Jerusalem:

1.) Mystery Babylon is said to kill the prophets in Revelation 18:24.

Yet the only city that has ever been recorded as killing the prophets is Jerusalem:
Matthew 23:37......
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets…”.

2.) The Bible says that Mystery Babylon will be held accountable for ALL the righteous blood shed on the earth.

Yet Jesus said the exact same thing about Jerusalem:
Matt. 23:35...…...
“That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth…”.

However, there is much in the Bible that will not allow Mystery Babylon to be Jerusalem.


Ezek. 5:9 reads...…..
“And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like”. The context will show that this verse has to do with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar. But please note, God said the He would “not do any more the like”.

In other words, when we read the words in the Scriptures we see here God’s promise that He will never again destroy Jerusalem.

It is clear however, that mystery Babylon will indeed be destroyed by God. This verse alone should prove that Jerusalem is not mystery Babylon.

Then there is the fact in Revelation 18:9-13 that merchants in ships see the final destruction of this city as they stand afar off. That tells us that this great city has a SEA PORT which Jerusalem does not have so once again we can see that Jerusalem is probably not Mystery Babylon.
Yes interesting major some things fit and then others do not fit, Jerusalem is nowhere near the sea. Actually the busiest port in Israel would be Tel Aviv, which is the unofficial capital of Israel.