How do you determine this?
ONE HUNDRED AND FORTYFOUR THOUSAND
- Thread starter Major
- Start date
1Cor. 1:27 “But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty". Sometimes less really is more as we are Christians, not Jews. I dont know who need to read this verse, but here it is.
Major I’m some surprised to hear that. More so from you . Considering you’ve always complained about posts or entire topics being deleted. Or is just your pet topics that should remain ? I simply added another angle on the matter of virginity and how that could affect such a subject. The fact is that the practice still happens within the realm of Judaism till this very day
As to Adolf Hitler identifying the millions of Jews of his time. Yes through the known registers. Most were of Ashkenazi origins in other words Jewish proselytes and certainly not of the lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But nevertheless well endowed with the Jewish revolutionary spirit and twice the children of hell. As our Lord Jesus did well aptly described in Matthew 23:15
their origins being from the Khazarian empire in the Black Sea area which converted to Judaism in the 8th century. And of which eventually migrated into Poland and the Ukraine, Russia and much of Europe. These be the main stay of the population of the newly created state of Israel. Without them No Israel. Crossnote are these part of the chosen ones you wrote about ? As to the term Nazi it was a name used by Germany’s enemies to defame National socialism. Konrad Heiden does come to mind 
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Facts are much different than opinions! I have NEVER complained about posts or asked that an entire topic be deleted!!!!
IMO, what you posted was not acceptable as it led to the idea that those men are actually not virgins as the Scriptures clearly say that they are.
By years of reading and study the numbers in the Bible and how they are used to explain what their meaning is and how they were used.
There are many, many books that are available in Hebrew and Greek on the meaning of numbers in the Bible.
One of the problems with expositors is that they work to explain what is written in front of them.
When we do that, we are then trying to explain what God said when all we have to do is accept what God did say.
If John wanted to say that the 144 K represents the Church or the country of Israel, then the question must be....why didn't he just do that????
He specifically said......144 K Jewish, Virgin, Men! Not One or Two or a Hundred but 144 K!
Well, you have to take the word 'virgins' and compare it's usage throughout scripture. I came across several interesting passages, but I don't think it's important enough to get in any kind of debate.
The word virgin in the Bible doesn't mean "a person who has never had sexual intercourse" in all cases. Plus, I'm not saying we only use 'common sense' when we try to understand scripture, but we do have to use some. We use it along with prayer and allowing the Spirit to help us. I am certainly still working on that!
You asked, "How could anyone prove considering all the temple records were destroyed in 70 AD.?"
I answered (in so many words) God knows who are His and who His descendants are and He gives that knowledge to His angels.
Hitler was just used for comparison, I'm not saying he was accurate in his guesstimates, but God has perfect knowledge.
Do you know which tribe you belong to?
Major do read more carefully. What I wrote in post 25. I wrote ( considering you’ve always complained about posts or entire topics being deleted ) Meaning that you are not asking for posts or topics to be deleted. Quite the opposite. Posts often innocently cross over into topics that are not supposed be discussed as per site rules and posts are deleted because of it. You’ve sometimes complained about that Some of us complained about this also including myself. That’s what I was writing about. We would be in agreement with you in that regard.
But now you are saying that my post should be deleted on your assumption that I believe the Jewish ones not be literal virgins. Actually I be in two minds on the subject. But since when has Baptist dogma ever been the final authority on the subject? There be many varying views on who the 144000 are amongst our many Christian denominations and more so upon the many interpretation’s of the book of Revelations itself . None that would warrant anyone’s post being deleted. I would think more deeply upon that . 
Yes me know what tribe I belong to. The Christian one . The Israel of God. For me all tribes become one Jew or Gentile alike the universal church or the Israel of God . I not be into race superiority. And I sure IF there be a 144000 literal virgins he would surely know . That is of course if the interpretation be correct.
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Good morning, crossnote and Prim90;
The 144,000 were pure, faithful followers of God that met His approval bringing the Gospel and many others during the Tribulation.
Nobody knows whether the literal virgins meant women or men, both of purity and of Jewish heritage which leaves me to wonder, which tribe do I belong to which might be a mix of American, and a few other ancestries from other lands.
I'm reading a lot of theory, views and "we can agree to disagree" but to the new student of the Bible very little has been shared regarding the fundamental understanding of Revelation 14.
What is the significance of the 144,000 and how should that impact our daily walk with Christ today?
Where do I fit in as a Believer regarding the tribe's Jewish heritage, Christianity, or ethnicity relevance for the future of the Kingdom?
Let's put on our teaching hats and give the world wide public and new Believers a chance too.
God bless you all.
NO.Major do read more carefully. What I wrote in post 25. I wrote ( considering you’ve always complained about posts or entire topics being deleted ) Meaning that you are not asking for posts or topics to be deleted. Quite the opposite. Posts often innocently cross over into topics that are not supposed be discussed as per site rules and posts are deleted because of it. You’ve sometimes complained about that Some of us complained about this also including myself. That’s what I was writing about. We would be in agreement with you in that regard. View attachment 11169 But now you are saying that my post should be deleted on your assumption that I believe the Jewish ones not be literal virgins. Actually I be in two minds on the subject. But since when has Baptist dogma ever been the final authority on the subject? There be many varying views on who the 144000 are amongst our many Christian denominations and more so upon the many interpretation’s of the book of Revelations itself . None that would warrant anyone’s post being deleted. I would think more deeply upon that .
I suggested that it be deleted because of the reference you made to oral sex because of circumcision eliminating (or suggesting) the 144 K as virgins.
I do not think that a reference to oral sex has any place in any forum discussion.
I agree that there are many opinions on that group of people but I did not question anything other than that.
I am not one to argue and you are free to believe as you choose to believe. What I can say with certainty is that the Greek word in question here is "παρθένοι".
It literally means ......."Not defiled with women" and is a reference to chastity, as the very next word (in Greek) indicates in that Scripture.
The men spoken of have not been defiled with women, and they are παρθένοι.
Thayer's Lexicon identifies 2 principal meanings of παρθένοι:
1. A virgin...i. e. either a marriageable maiden, or a young (married) woman
2. "a man who has abstained from all uncleanness and whoredom and so has kept his chastity"
Hello Major;
We edited the wording in Prim90's post and informed her.
Didn't you read my previous post? Let's all get back into the discussion of your thread.
In the meantime we will continue to monitor the posts and hopefully this can go in a learning and growing read.
God bless you, brother.
Bob, I don't (or never) claimed to be a teacher, just one who puts forth ideas to chew on.
As far as new believers go, I would direct them to the books of John and Romans.
Revelation is not a Book for new believers, as even seasoned believers struggle with Revelation, as witnessed here on this Forum.
the funniest thing you ever said... and I can't remember where I read it... but... it went something like this.
I am not good with flowery words ( or maybe it was kind words ) SO... here is what my wife said. HAHAHA.
Hello crossnote;
Though I replied to you and Prim90, I meant to address everyone posting in this thread.
Actually, many of your posts are thoughtful including your testimonies and are considerate of many who are still learning the Word besides how we apply the Scriptures in our lives. Many of your posts have ministered to me.
What you suggest, I agree. John and Romans can be a good start in study. Your comment on struggles with Revelation for new and seasoned Believers is my point. How much more for the reader of these posts who have no clue about Revelation without introducing a fundamental understanding?
I hear the question all the time. Why do we not allow certain topics in our forums when it is Biblical? Truth is, being Biblical includes the ability to have a discussion on Scripture without it escalating into sharp divisive disagreements. We can disagree with one's interpretation but we need to arrive at a common ground for further study, research and growing.
In the meantime, let's get back into the heart of fellowship on this subject.
God bless everyone and your families.
Yeah right, well she walks softly but carries a big hammer (ouch).