One Shall Be Taken, And The Other Left

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Major, let us look at the timeline from a pre-trib rapture onward. First you admit that there will be seven years from the rapture until the end of the great tribulation:


As I said, that tribulation is only in regard to Israel. Then after the signs in the sky are seen men will be in fear of the things which will be coming on the earth (Lk.21:25-26). It will not be until this when the following events occur:

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations...And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live" (Rev.13:7,14).

So there will be plenty of time between the rapture and the events of Revelation 13:14 for those who missed the rapture to come to the truth. You also said:

So now you are saying that the rapture will be post-trib even though you said this earlier?:

You leave me puzzled, Major.

Lol Major. You mocked my warning and yet even you, a stout and devout pre-tribber, are getting sucked into the spiraling whirlpool of everything Jerry.......how ironic. Are you dizzy yet?

Dadgummed if you are not right!

I should have thanked you and ran but no......I give the benifit of the doubt and BOOM!

Thanks and forgive me!!!
Major, let us look at the timeline from a pre-trib rapture onward. First you admit that there will be seven years from the rapture until the end of the great tribulation:


As I said, that tribulation is only in regard to Israel. Then after the signs in the sky are seen men will be in fear of the things which will be coming on the earth (Lk.21:25-26). It will not be until this when the following events occur:

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations...And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live" (Rev.13:7,14).

So there will be plenty of time between the rapture and the events of Revelation 13:14 for those who missed the rapture to come to the truth. You also said:

So now you are saying that the rapture will be post-trib even though you said this earlier?:

You leave me puzzled, Major.

NOPE! I believe you are the one who is puzzeling my friend. I was willing to give you the bennifit of the doubt, but I can see that this is going in circles with you trying to blame others.

I am done!
 
NOPE! I believe you are the one who is puzzeling my friend. I was willing to give you the bennifit of the doubt, but I can see that this is going in circles with you trying to blame others.

I am done!
Major, were you not referring here to the subject of this thread when you said the following?:

"On the very same day.." it means on the very same day. That would be the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month....yes?
Since Jesus used this historic event to illustrate the future culmination of the age, He was talking about separation of the Noah types and the rest of humanity, on the same day. The Lord's people will be taken, the others will be left to immediately face the flood of bad things....condemnation."

From what you said I can only understand that you are referring to these verses:

"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be...Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:37,40-41).

Here you have the Lord's people being taken and the others will be left to immediately face the flood of bad things....condemnation.

That is indeed what will happen at the rapture but the events described at Matthew 24:37,40-41 take place after the "great tribulation":

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:...And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory...But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be....For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:29-30,37,40-41).

The "coming" of the Lord Jesus spoken of there happens AFTER the great tribulation is over so according to you then the rapture will happen AFTER the great tribulation..

So you are teaching that the rapture is "post-trib" despite the fact that earlier you said the following:
IMO, a mid or post Rapture makes no sense at all to me and does not conform to the Bibles record.
You want it both ways, Major. You say that a post trib rapture makes no sense but then you turn around and use verses that are definitely going to happen after the great tribulation is over and then say that that is when the rapture will happen.
 
Here's an idea-why don't we teach Christians that they will be persecuted for Christ's cause and not to expect to be 'saved' from bodily harm since the Bible clearly says we will be "murdered", "brought before judges", "cast into prisons", "beheaded" and "scourged".

Why do we need 'earthly' warm fuzzy theology to bring in the herd? It hasn't worked in centuries...

Seems to me the whole escape thought is silly. The judgment we are saved from is HELL-God's Wrath, not the wickedness of this world.
 
Here's an idea-why don't we teach Christians that they will be persecuted for Christ's cause and not to expect to be 'saved' from bodily harm since the Bible clearly says we will be "murdered", "brought before judges", "cast into prisons", "beheaded" and "scourged".

Why do we need 'earthly' warm fuzzy theology to bring in the herd? It hasn't worked in centuries...

Seems to me the whole escape thought is silly. The judgment we are saved from is HELL-God's Wrath, not the wickedness of this world.
Well said....The whole "Left Behind" Hollywood hit melodrama just doesn't jive with the Bible facts, to me.
 
Well said....The whole "Left Behind" Hollywood hit melodrama just doesn't jive with the Bible facts, to me.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the idea of being whisked away at the last moment, But I don't see CLEAR 'rapture' doctrine. And if I like it-it probably is fleshly. I liked the movie as a "fantasy", but I think we focus way too much energy on this type of doctrine when we are COMMANDED to preach the Gospel-not rapture.

I do agree that there will be a "final" tribulation, and a "final" gathering, but it is my understanding that there is much, much, much more to our trials and tribulations BEFORE the last trump calls those 'left behind'/ still here home.

That all being said-the debate won't be settled until we are laughing at each other in our Father's presence after discovering how foolish we are...
 
You placed the rapture after the great tribulation when you said:

Your reference to one being taken is in regard to the passage at Matthew 24:39-41.

The reference to the "great tribulation" occurs much earlier, at Matthew 24:21.

So you do in fact place the rapture as coming after the great tribulation.

You have lost your mind my friend!
 
You have lost your mind my friend!
No, and why did you refuse to answer what I said here?:

The events described at Matthew 24:37, 40-41 take place after the "great tribulation":

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:...And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory...But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be....For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:29-30,37,40-41).

The "coming" of the Lord Jesus spoken of there happens AFTER the great tribulation is over so according to you then the rapture will happen AFTER the great tribulation because you described the events when one will be taken as the rapture:

"On the very same day.." it means on the very same day. That would be the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month....yes?
Since Jesus used this historic event to illustrate the future culmination of the age, He was talking about separation of the Noah types and the rest of humanity, on the same day. The Lord's people will be taken, the others will be left to immediately face the flood of bad things....condemnation."

Why do you just ignore these facts and then ask me if I have lost my mind?
 
Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the idea of being whisked away at the last moment, But I don't see CLEAR 'rapture' doctrine.
The fact that the rapture is described as being imminent proves that the rapture would happen before the great tribulation. Paul used a Greek word in regard to the Lord's appearing that can only mean that His appearing could "occur at any moment":

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation (apokaradokia) of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God...And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, that is, the redemption of our body" (Ro.8:18,19,23).

Here Paul is speaking of "the redemption of our body", an event that will happen when the Lord Jesus appears. The Greek word translated "earnest expectation" is "apokaradokia", and this word means "to watch with head erect or outstretched...to wait for in suspense" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

Vine says that the word means "primarily 'a watching with outstretched head' (apo, 'from,' kara, 'the head,' and dokeo, 'to look, to watch'), signifies "strained expectancy, eager longing," the stretching forth of the head indicating an
'expectation' of something from a certain place, Rom. 8:19; Phil. 1:20" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words).

The same Greek word "was used in Greek writings to describe the alert watchman who peered into the darkness, eagerly looking for the first gleam of the distant beacon which would announce the capture of Troy." (Precept Austin).

Paul would not be telling anyone to be looking with their heads outstretched in eager anticipation of His appearing if it was not possible for the Lord to appear until certain events took place, such as these:

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains...For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Mt.24:15-21).
 
Gentlemen and others o_O................Might I draw your attention to my post/reply #31. That post has been shamefully and wrongly attributed to Major. I am aggrieved not a little that my profound insights have been bullishly torn away from me and given to another.....:cry:
Jerry, most recently you attributed my workmanship to Major in post #45, and previously in post # 39. Perhaps, Major is justified in questioning your present grasp of reality?
Major quoted my words in post #37.
 
If you are so moved by God, then you should do so. If you came to preach to the choir, again, you should do so. But if you came to learn as well as teach, perhaps you should put your pride aside. No one here has condemned you (well permanently).
 
Gentlemen and others o_O................Might I draw your attention to my post/reply #31. That post has been shamefully and wrongly attributed to Major. I am aggrieved not a little that my profound insights have been bullishly torn away from me and given to another.....:cry:
Jerry, most recently you attributed my workmanship to Major in post #45, and previously in post # 39. Perhaps, Major is justified in questioning your present grasp of reality?
Major quoted my words in post #37.

Thank you calvin and you are correct which is exactly why I withdrew from this conversation.

In fact, I was thinking it was me who had lost my mind!
If you are so moved by God, then you should do so. If you came to preach to the choir, again, you should do so. But if you came to learn as well as teach, perhaps you should put your pride aside. No one here has condemned you (well permanently).

Well said Silk!
 
Well it is a prickly, vociferous, unruly, take no prisoners, provocative and knowledgeable choir (and that's just me ;) waving from the third row.) But there are no falsettos here.

I meant to post that here, instead I posted it to another. Sheesh. Guess it's a day for oopsies
 
And this is why we anal-retentive, fun-hating, killjoy Mods always come along and "smash" these threads. The topic always seems to bring out the worst in people and ends up in hard feelings and for what? Nothing is ever resolved, no consensus reached. It all seems so pointless to me. Many Christians have already suffered unspeakable things for their faith, and are currently suffering this very day. For them, it is foolish to talk about when a rapture and a tribulation will take place as they are already in the midst of their tribulation and the martyrs have already gone on to be with the Lord. If we are in Christ, He will take us Home at the appropriate time - whether that be through a rapture event or through martyrdom or through natural death or through accidental death. If we keep our lamps full of oil, we will shine our lights through the dark hours and be ready when the Bridegroom comes.

I have nothing against a friendly discussion of a non-salvic topic if the discussion can remain friendly. But seriously, in this thread, did anyone come away from it edified and built up? Do you suppose others who follow this thread are edified and built up? These are not rhetorical questions to be used as rods to beat the participants in this thread, but questions to be given due consideration in the way we relate to one another.
 
Well said Rumely!

I have decided the rapture is no longer a topic for discussion at CFS.

This thread has been closed as will any other on this topic.
 
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