Order of Events in the Gathering?

Isaiah 58 is a good place to start if you want to know what the sabbath is about.

RDJ, I asked YOU to explain to me YOUR take on what it means to keep the sabbath, how one keeps it, etc.

Are you not willing to explain all that I had asked you. Why the slight-of-hand casting aside of specifics asked of you? Does it not matter to you?

Please explain.

MM
 
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and beliefs. As for me, I point only to what is written:

Romans 14:5-11

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

I am content to regard every day sacred and holy unto the Lord. I never denied what the Lord had declared for that one day in the creation week, and I do not deny His command to all Israel for that day unto them. Who were the Israelites? They were some of the most stiff-necked, resistant peoples imaginable. They are the Lord's, and I pray for them.

So, in answer to your question above, no. I don't have a scripture that specifies what you are seeking for an answer. You either accept the Spirit and words the Lord spoke through the hand of the writer of Romans, or you do not. That is neither here nor there with me. So long as you seek the Lord with all your heart, in the manner you choose to serve Him, then by all means, do so.

Does that help you to understand the distinction between that first week, the following weeks through what was commanded of Israel, and what is our inheritance, our freedom, as the Church?

MM
Lets start at the beginning of the chapter.

Romans 14:1-Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

This is not literal eating,it is spiritual eating..Mature christian and young christian.(this relationship is addressed from verse 13-23)..verses 3-9 is addressing those who are living unto the Lord and those who are not.

Verse 3-4-Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

He that is eating is living to the Lord,he that is not eating is dying to the Lord.
(1corinthians 3:2-I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.)

Verses 5-6- One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.*Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.*He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

This verse is not addressing the sabbath.
Its about someone who is acknowledging God daily in their lives and another who is not.(living to the Lord and dying to the Lord)
Notice that everything is either done to the Lord or not to the Lord.
*(Revelations 22:11-He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.)*

Verses 7-9- For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Everything that is done is either done unto the Lord or not done unto him.
This chapter helped me to see that people who are not christian also belong to Christ ,as he indeed died for everybody,and so softening my heart toward them We are not to judge those that are without the church in the same way we are not to let them judge us.

This chapter has nothing to do with the sabbath and does not serve as a proof text for what you are proposing.
 
This verse is not addressing the sabbath.
I believe this one is though...

Colossians 2:16 (NASB) Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--

At least it's the same principle as in Romans 14.
 
RDJ, I asked YOU to explain to me YOUR take on what it means to keep the sabbath, how one keeps it, etc.

Are you not willing to explain all that I had asked you. Why the slight-of-hand casting aside of specifics asked of you? Does it not matter to you?

Please explain.

MM
There aren't any hard and fast rules that I go by for the keeping of the sabbath..I start off with the foundational principle of resting from my work..which would be my job..Im an auto electrician,so that would mean no working on cars.

The idea is to put God 1st.Not just by what im physically doing but in my thoughts aswel.Thoughts of work and what still needs to be done I try to push those thoughts out.Personal issues I push out aswel.I sleep in an hour or 2 extra, I read my bible alot,I gather at my home or a brothers home to fellowship and share the Word.No time limits.We normal part ways just before sunset.
 
I believe this one is though...

Colossians 2:16 (NASB) Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--

At least it's the same principle as in Romans 14.
The contexts for colossians 2:16 is found in verse 2:14.The hand writing of ordinances is referring to the book of the law Moses wrote..In it were the laws concerning feast days , beginning of the new moon and the various holy days which normally marked the beginning and end of weekly feasts.These holy days were also called sabbath days because the principle was the same for them which is no work was to be done in them.

You can find all this information in the books of Moses(exodus,leviticus, deuteronomy)all those feasts,holy days and sabbaths are done away in Christ.The 7th day sabbath however is not part of that list..Its part of creation and stands forever.
 
Well, I stay home and rest on the 1st day of the week because I'm out and about on all the other days!
It saves on gas. I'm guessing it's a little out because in my country, things used to be closed on the weekend. And churches only met on Sundays. But then the govt overturned the ruling which meant I had to work on the weekend. Saturday is now the busiest day because people need to get their shopping done and they prefer to do it in the daytime rather than the nighttime (Friday evening used to be the biggest shopping night). Everyone is way too tired to go out on Friday night after working all week. I actually have Fridays off.

Woe betide you if you don't have any means of transport to get to church. Cos public buses won't run on Sundays and they aren't free.

I think keeping tradtional sabbath works in reverse when you are at home for six days (if you work at home) and then gather on the 7th. But a lot of people don't work at home cos they can't. Workplaces are not our homes, unless you work in a boarding school or have a homestead farm or happen to be a stay-at-home mother.

Generally, I tend to treat Monday through to Thursday as my working week. I generally get all my work done then, so I can afford to rest the other days. The community garden aways had is working bees on Saturdays, but I've stopped going because its work lol. I'd rather enjoy the garden than work in it. By Saturday, the bookshop is all stocked up and there are no deliveries, so working there on a Saturday is more like fun than work! (God was ok with it, plus I do need the extra money).

Keeping things holy, because we don't have a temple anymore (thanks Jesus for casting down every stone in Jerusalem) our body is now our temple. And I say we rest. So put your feet up, eat leftovers, and read a book.

There's no law that forbids you to read the Bible any day of the week. It's just tradition. But God made our bodies and knew we got tired, and for us to function best we need to rest. He might have even had us working all night as well, but he didn't make a rule that we had to sleep at night. We can have a nap once a week that He chose to rest.

I think Sabbaths are reminding us we need to take a break for a day and kick back and enjoy it just like God did. It does nobody any good to be a workaholic. Also note that he doesn't want just one person to take a break...he wants EVERYONE to take one. Even the animals. You can't make someone else work just because you are taking the day off. So don't ask for someone else to give you a massage because the masseuse has to then work massaging you. How about just getting one of them massage chairs or just lie in a hammock all day.
 
Lets start at the beginning of the chapter.

Romans 14:1-Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

This is not literal eating,it is spiritual eating..Mature christian and young christian.(this relationship is addressed from verse 13-23)..verses 3-9 is addressing those who are living unto the Lord and those who are not.

Verse 3-4-Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

He that is eating is living to the Lord,he that is not eating is dying to the Lord.
(1corinthians 3:2-I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.)

Verses 5-6- One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.*Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.*He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

This verse is not addressing the sabbath.
Its about someone who is acknowledging God daily in their lives and another who is not.(living to the Lord and dying to the Lord)
Notice that everything is either done to the Lord or not to the Lord.
*(Revelations 22:11-He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.)*

Verses 7-9- For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Everything that is done is either done unto the Lord or not done unto him.
This chapter helped me to see that people who are not christian also belong to Christ ,as he indeed died for everybody,and so softening my heart toward them We are not to judge those that are without the church in the same way we are not to let them judge us.

This chapter has nothing to do with the sabbath and does not serve as a proof text for what you are proposing.

One thing I think we can agree upon is that the moral injunction against fornication, in ALL its forms, is forbidden. Right? I mean, can we agree with that?

Likewise, esteeming one day, whether it be the sabbath, or a family tradition for having a family get-together on a specific day each week, it's neither here nor there under the New Covenant. I'm not under the Law, and I doubt you consider yourself to be under the Law. If you do, then that's to your personal detriment. I will not judge you on that basis, but I can pity you and all others who intentionally place themselves under any aspect, jot or tittle of it.

So, you are correct to observe that the "sabbath" wasn't mentioned specifically in the much broader net of the concept for "esteeming one day above another." My question is, why would anyone disallow the standard for God's using literary looseness that we all have no problem licensing ourselves to utilize? Do you see what I'm saying? You're basically declaring that because God didn't specifically list all the possibilities that might define what falls within the scope of one day esteemed over another, that you can come along and subjectively limit that scope of what any man may esteem for one day over another.

May I ask, by what authority do you set yourself up with that measure of oversight? I've already said that you are free to esteem the seventh day of each week any way you so choose, but you're coming across as if I'm wrong for not doing as you do. What if I were a Search and Rescue worker who had to be on call and work the seventh day of each week when there was an emergency, or an ER doctor, or a soup kitchen worker who serves the homeless the meals they would otherwise never have if we closed on sabbath? Your brand of legalism creates far more problems for your subjective system of interpretation than I personally would be comfortable trying to defend.

Now, before you say it, I'm not down-playing the Lord's declaration to the Israelites concerning the seventh day of each week being kept holy, when they were under the Law. I'm not denigrating it in any way. Not at all. It was indeed a holy day to them, as commanded. No such command exists relating to the Church.

RDJ, are YOU an Israelite? I'm not, so I'm especially blessed by your inability to force me under the knife of the Law for sabbath observation, or esteeming it as more holy than all other days of the week. You have not presented an convincing argument in your attempt at limiting the scope of what day one may or may not esteem above another at the exclusion of the sabbath. If you don't like it that I esteem every day as holy and sacred unto the Lord, then I don't know what else to say apart from asking you to show me something with substance. The term "esteem" in verse 5 is:

"to approve, esteem: ἡμέραν παῥ ἡμέραν, one day above another, i. e. to prefer (see παρά, III. 2 b.), Romans 14:5" (Thayer's Greek Lexicon)

Having sex with my neighbor's daughter doesn't have to be spelled out specifically to me, in the moral disallowance for fornication, to inform me that such a relationship is...immoral if she is not my wedded wife. It doesn't have to be spelled out for me in the passages condemning fornication. Do you get what I'm saying about the fallacy you're perpetrating here? You're arguing from silence.

Unless you can show to me otherwise, that the command to the Israelites that THEY keep the sabbath holy, meaning that it was to be set apart from all other days of the week and therefore not intermixed nor spread out, it therefore ended with the advent of the New Covenant in relation to the Church. Give the Lord some credit. He saw what was coming. This complex and advanced world of ours, with its population size, your system simply doesn't work. We don't live in a ideal world. It would be great if we ALL could set aside one day, and enjoy holding in holy regard the Lord in all our thoughts throughout that day together, but we're not in that world any longer. My work is too critical, and too many lives depend on my team. I wish you could recreate what the Lord apparently failed to create for us when we observe the comparative perfection you seem to think your microcosmic theology has captured.

I openly admit my failure to conform to your personal dictates. I also reject, and for good reason, your attempts at forcing your chosen limitations upon the contextual scope in Romans 14. The writer was inspired to mention a couple of specifics, but to imply that the failure to define all of the specifics to which it could ever refer...no. That's presumption at its worst in my books.

MM
 
There aren't any hard and fast rules that I go by for the keeping of the sabbath..I start off with the foundational principle of resting from my work..which would be my job..Im an auto electrician,so that would mean no working on cars.

The idea is to put God 1st.Not just by what im physically doing but in my thoughts aswel.Thoughts of work and what still needs to be done I try to push those thoughts out.Personal issues I push out aswel.I sleep in an hour or 2 extra, I read my bible alot,I gather at my home or a brothers home to fellowship and share the Word.No time limits.We normal part ways just before sunset.

Then I honor your choice by saying in your favor, amen. You are free do as as you have chosen. At the same time, I hope you don't mind my rejection of your trying to establish the Law over others in here or anywhere else. I'm not saying it's the Law you have placed yourself under to do as you do, but you have nothing else apart from the force of the Law to apply your practices and beliefs upon others under the guise of doctrinal teaching. Your case is flimsy, lacking and downright fallacious.

MM
 
The contexts for colossians 2:16 is found in verse 2:14.The hand writing of ordinances is referring to the book of the law Moses wrote..In it were the laws concerning feast days , beginning of the new moon and the various holy days which normally marked the beginning and end of weekly feasts.These holy days were also called sabbath days because the principle was the same for them which is no work was to be done in them.

You can find all this information in the books of Moses(exodus,leviticus, deuteronomy)all those feasts,holy days and sabbaths are done away in Christ.The 7th day sabbath however is not part of that list..Its part of creation and stands forever.
Thx, I've heard that interpretation before, I just don't buy it. In all those things we are not to act as judge on one another, that is the crux of Col 2:16.
 
Everyone, it's my understanding that, where the ten commandments are concerned, only nine of the ten are repeated in the NT as instructions to the Church. The fourth commandment is repeated nowhere in all the NT as an instruction to the Church for observance. If someone can show me otherwise, then please share it with us.

MM
 
Everyone, it's my understanding that, where the ten commandments are concerned, only nine of the ten are repeated in the NT as instructions to the Church. The fourth commandment is repeated nowhere in all the NT as an instruction to the Church for observance. If someone can show me otherwise, then please share it with us.

MM
If I had to squeeze water out of a rock, I would go to Hebrews 3:7-4:13, zeroing in on 4:9-11...

So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
(Heb 4:9-11)

What's a bit ironic is that we enter into that rest by ceasing (trusting in) our works and resting (trusting) in His.
To me this is an exhortation, rather than a commandment, to keep the new Sabbath which the new Joshua gives us.
 
Then I honor your choice by saying in your favor, amen. You are free do as as you have chosen. At the same time, I hope you don't mind my rejection of your trying to establish the Law over others in here or anywhere else. I'm not saying it's the Law you have placed yourself under to do as you do, but you have nothing else apart from the force of the Law to apply your practices and beliefs upon others under the guise of doctrinal teaching. Your case is flimsy, lacking and downright fallacious.

MM
Hey brother, your not rejecting me, Im just a messenger.
 
One thing I think we can agree upon is that the moral injunction against fornication, in ALL its forms, is forbidden. Right? I mean, can we agree with that?

Likewise, esteeming one day, whether it be the sabbath, or a family tradition for having a family get-together on a specific day each week, it's neither here nor there under the New Covenant. I'm not under the Law, and I doubt you consider yourself to be under the Law. If you do, then that's to your personal detriment. I will not judge you on that basis, but I can pity you and all others who intentionally place themselves under any aspect, jot or tittle of it.

So, you are correct to observe that the "sabbath" wasn't mentioned specifically in the much broader net of the concept for "esteeming one day above another." My question is, why would anyone disallow the standard for God's using literary looseness that we all have no problem licensing ourselves to utilize? Do you see what I'm saying? You're basically declaring that because God didn't specifically list all the possibilities that might define what falls within the scope of one day esteemed over another, that you can come along and subjectively limit that scope of what any man may esteem for one day over another.

May I ask, by what authority do you set yourself up with that measure of oversight? I've already said that you are free to esteem the seventh day of each week any way you so choose, but you're coming across as if I'm wrong for not doing as you do. What if I were a Search and Rescue worker who had to be on call and work the seventh day of each week when there was an emergency, or an ER doctor, or a soup kitchen worker who serves the homeless the meals they would otherwise never have if we closed on sabbath? Your brand of legalism creates far more problems for your subjective system of interpretation than I personally would be comfortable trying to defend.

Now, before you say it, I'm not down-playing the Lord's declaration to the Israelites concerning the seventh day of each week being kept holy, when they were under the Law. I'm not denigrating it in any way. Not at all. It was indeed a holy day to them, as commanded. No such command exists relating to the Church.

RDJ, are YOU an Israelite? I'm not, so I'm especially blessed by your inability to force me under the knife of the Law for sabbath observation, or esteeming it as more holy than all other days of the week. You have not presented an convincing argument in your attempt at limiting the scope of what day one may or may not esteem above another at the exclusion of the sabbath. If you don't like it that I esteem every day as holy and sacred unto the Lord, then I don't know what else to say apart from asking you to show me something with substance. The term "esteem" in verse 5 is:

"to approve, esteem: ἡμέραν παῥ ἡμέραν, one day above another, i. e. to prefer (see παρά, III. 2 b.), Romans 14:5" (Thayer's Greek Lexicon)

Having sex with my neighbor's daughter doesn't have to be spelled out specifically to me, in the moral disallowance for fornication, to inform me that such a relationship is...immoral if she is not my wedded wife. It doesn't have to be spelled out for me in the passages condemning fornication. Do you get what I'm saying about the fallacy you're perpetrating here? You're arguing from silence.

Unless you can show to me otherwise, that the command to the Israelites that THEY keep the sabbath holy, meaning that it was to be set apart from all other days of the week and therefore not intermixed nor spread out, it therefore ended with the advent of the New Covenant in relation to the Church. Give the Lord some credit. He saw what was coming. This complex and advanced world of ours, with its population size, your system simply doesn't work. We don't live in a ideal world. It would be great if we ALL could set aside one day, and enjoy holding in holy regard the Lord in all our thoughts throughout that day together, but we're not in that world any longer. My work is too critical, and too many lives depend on my team. I wish you could recreate what the Lord apparently failed to create for us when we observe the comparative perfection you seem to think your microcosmic theology has captured.

I openly admit my failure to conform to your personal dictates. I also reject, and for good reason, your attempts at forcing your chosen limitations upon the contextual scope in Romans 14. The writer was inspired to mention a couple of specifics, but to imply that the failure to define all of the specifics to which it could ever refer...no. That's presumption at its worst in my books.

M
If you want to esteem everyday thats your choice but your choice does not make nul and void the 7th day sabbath.

Like I said these verses have nothing to do with the sabbath.
 
Everyone, it's my understanding that, where the ten commandments are concerned, only nine of the ten are repeated in the NT as instructions to the Church. The fourth commandment is repeated nowhere in all the NT as an instruction to the Church for observance. If someone can show me otherwise, then please share it with us.

MM
Matthew 12:12-How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Jesus through out the gospel showed that the sabbath is still to be kept..He only condemned the man made laws within the sabbath and incouraged his way of keeping it.

Revelations 1:10- I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

What day would you suggest is the Lord's day?

Considering God the Father calls the 7th day "my holy day" and Jesus our Lord says that he is Lord if the sabbath.

This is just some of the evidence from the new testament.
 
If you want to esteem everyday thats your choice but your choice does not make nul and void the 7th day sabbath.

Like I said these verses have nothing to do with the sabbath.

RDJ, I nullified nothing. I simply emphasized the freedom we all have in Christ Jesus. If you don't want to accept that freedom, then that's up to you.

MM
 
If I had to squeeze water out of a rock, I would go to Hebrews 3:7-4:13, zeroing in on 4:9-11...

So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
(Heb 4:9-11)

What's a bit ironic is that we enter into that rest by ceasing (trusting in) our works and resting (trusting) in His.
To me this is an exhortation, rather than a commandment, to keep the new Sabbath which the new Joshua gives us.

Hmm. CN, let's look at that word "rest" in the Greek from Thayer's Greek Lexicon as it's used in those Hebrews passages. This is interesting indeed.

"ἡ κατάπαυσις τοῦ Θεοῦ, the heavenly blessedness in which God dwells, and of which he has promised to make persevering believers in Christ partakers after the toils and trials of life on earth are ended: Hebrews 3:11, 18; Hebrews 4:1, 3, 5, 10f (after Psalm 94:11 (Ps. 95:11), where the expression denotes the fixed and tranquil abode promised to the Israelites in the land of Palestine)."

Language is key here. Any one of us can speak using terms that can be misconstrued, and this one is a case in point. As you can see here, the translators chose the word "rest" in our English language to describe the rest as it applied to the Israelites and them living in the promised land of their forefathers. The sabbath is therefore not in the view of the inspired writing.

Now, I don't mind admitting that an ethereal line of comparison may very well exist with the sabbath, but the sabbath itself is not the object in sight of the Greek from which this is translated. Drawing upon an item of comparison that the Hebrew people would easily have associated for their understanding of this new Covenant the Messiah established, in that resting in Christ, as they rested in the land of His choosing as opposed to wondering about with no place to call their home for the rest they so desired, that is the object. Those passages are not speaking of the continuance of the sabbath observance for the Gentiles and the Church in general.

I just wanted to add to what you said for the sake of clarification so that others would not misconstrue the text as allegedly being a reestablishment of the sabbath requirement upon the Church. I agree with Sabbatarians more than they realize when it comes to the necessity for the human body to rest one day out of seven, and the importance of our lives being an expression of admiration of God's Holiness, but that expression should be an every-day way of life. The ancients, before the cross, went to the temple to be near the Spirit. Since the cross, we have that same Spirit within us...every day of every moment. What a wonderful gift we have been given.

Today is Sunday. For those of you who "sabbath" this day, and focus upon the Lord in it more than most other days of the week, be blessed and enjoy this time. For me, I have no such luxuries. My responsibilities for the very lives of others throughout each week force me to spread my "sabbath" across all days of the week. That doesn't make anyone better than any other. It's just life under the wings of this New Covenant in this modern world. If some out there consider themselves better than me because they have the freedom to lay back on Saturdays or Sundays for their sabbath, then I receive that with humble acceptance, for I generally consider others better than myself out of habit.

May the Lord continue to bless you all.

MM
 
Matthew 12:12-How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Jesus through out the gospel showed that the sabbath is still to be kept..He only condemned the man made laws within the sabbath and incouraged his way of keeping it.

Revelations 1:10- I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

What day would you suggest is the Lord's day?

Considering God the Father calls the 7th day "my holy day" and Jesus our Lord says that he is Lord if the sabbath.

This is just some of the evidence from the new testament.

Jesus also instructed a man He had healed to go and present himself to the priests for his healing, and to offer up the blood sacrifices as was commanded in the Law, but I doubt you do that. Right? Come now. Let's dispense with the subjective bridge building. If you're going to subjectively subscribe to only SOME of what Jesus instructed that He had fulfilled already, then take it all as a more complete binding of yourself under the Law. Please keep in mind, however, that any binding of self to any one law is just as bad as being bound by all the Law.

Jesus fulfilled completely the sabbath rest. How? We no longer must struggle under the weight of sins only covered by animal blood sacrifices. He fulfilled the sabbath by the complete rest we have in Him and His indwelling us as He had never done for anyone throughout all of time before the cross. Holy living, as an expression of the holiness of God, is now indwelling us as never before. He does not indwell angels. He does not indwell trees or rocks. He indwells His people who call upon His name. Halleluiah!

Every day is the Lord's day for those of us all who are indwelt by Holy Spirit because of the fulfillments Jesus provided to us all. I'm so thankful we don't have to go to a special place to be near the Spirit of the Lord, and that we don't have to lay around, resting as an observance of the holiness of God. We are fully indwelt by the Spirit every moment of every day. How does resting establish the holiness of God in any one day under this New Covenant? It doesn't! Such is shallow and lacking in understanding in so many modern people who subscribe to a one time even in Genesis, and a commandment of Law.

We don't have just partial freedom in Christ, we have absolute and utter freedom to express our love and devotion to the Lord free of all the fetters of the Law. He has written in our hearts His commandments, and in my heart He has written no command for the continuance of the constraints of the Law for one day. I have already shown to everyone here the distinction between that one day in that one week back through the thousands of years since, and I have shown the very words of Jesus stating that since that one week, that one day, the Father and He have been working ever since, including every sabbath commanded of Israel to observe.

Some will ignore and reject all this with stoic indifference to the word of God, and they all have that freedom. As for me, I will honor the holiness of God each and every day, and seek to obey what He has laid upon my heart.

The Lord is praised.

MM
 
Last edited:
"ἡ κατάπαυσις τοῦ Θεοῦ, the heavenly blessedness in which God dwells, and of which he has promised to make persevering believers in Christ partakers after the toils and trials of life on earth are ended: Hebrews 3:11, 18; Hebrews 4:1, 3, 5, 10f (after Psalm 94:11 (Ps. 95:11), where the expression denotes the fixed and tranquil abode promised to the Israelites in the land of Palestine)."

Language is key here. Any one of us can speak using terms that can be misconstrued, and this one is a case in point. As you can see here, the translators chose the word "rest" in our English language to describe the rest as it applied to the Israelites and them living in the promised land of their forefathers. The sabbath is therefore not in the view of the inspired writing.
Now if we go to Ex 34:21 which the Book of Hebrews is referring to, we have for the word 'rest'...

h7673. שָׁבַת šâḇaṯ; a primitive root; to repose, i.e. desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific): — (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

So it is the concept of rest that is being referred to, not an English<--->Greek equivalent.

Now, I don't mind admitting that an ethereal line of comparison may very well exist with the sabbath, but the sabbath itself is not the object in sight of the Greek from which this is translated. Drawing upon an item of comparison that the Hebrew people would easily have associated for their understanding of this new Covenant the Messiah established, in that resting in Christ, as they rested in the land of His choosing as opposed to wondering about with no place to call their home for the rest they so desired, that is the object. Those passages are not speaking of the continuance of the sabbath observance for the Gentiles and the Church in general.
Agreed, what isn't in sight is a continuous 'every 7th day rest' but an eternal rest ceasing from our works as God was typified doing. (Gen 2:2).

I just wanted to add to what you said for the sake of clarification so that others would not misconstrue the text as allegedly being a reestablishment of the sabbath requirement upon the Church. I agree with Sabbatarians more than they realize when it comes to the necessity for the human body to rest one day out of seven, and the importance of our lives being an expression of admiration of God's Holiness, but that expression should be an every-day way of life. The ancients, before the cross, went to the temple to be near the Spirit. Since the cross, we have that same Spirit within us...every day of every moment. What a wonderful gift we have been given.
100%


Today is Sunday. For those of you who "sabbath" this day, and focus upon the Lord in it more than most other days of the week, be blessed and enjoy this time. For me, I have no such luxuries. My responsibilities for the very lives of others throughout each week force me to spread my "sabbath" across all days of the week. That doesn't make anyone better than any other. It's just life under the wings of this New Covenant in this modern world. If some out there consid der themselves better than me because they have the freedom to lay back on Saturdays or Sundays for their sabbath, then I receive that with humble acceptance, for I generally consider others better than myself out of habit.
yup...

1 Thessalonians 2:9 (NASB) For you recall, brethren, our labor and hardship, how working night and day so as not to be a burden to any of you, we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.

2 Thessalonians 3:8 (NASB) nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you;

...and I am not sure how Paul spent his Sabbaths while on his missionary voyages, "Hey mateys, can you pull over to land, it's Saturday, and closing in on 6pm Jerusalem time."
 
Now if we go to Ex 34:21 which the Book of Hebrews is referring to, we have for the word 'rest'...

h7673. שָׁבַת šâḇaṯ; a primitive root; to repose, i.e. desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific): — (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

So it is the concept of rest that is being referred to, not an English<--->Greek equivalent.


Agreed, what isn't in sight is a continuous 'every 7th day rest' but an eternal rest ceasing from our works as God was typified doing. (Gen 2:2).


100%



yup...

1 Thessalonians 2:9 (NASB) For you recall, brethren, our labor and hardship, how working night and day so as not to be a burden to any of you, we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.

2 Thessalonians 3:8 (NASB) nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you;

...and I am not sure how Paul spent his Sabbaths while on his missionary voyages, "Hey mateys, can you pull over to land, it's Saturday, and closing in on 6pm Jerusalem time."

Excellent point, CN. Thanks for sharing this with everyone here.

MM
 
Back
Top