Order of Events in the Gathering?

Major said:
Now you are free to disagree but I am going to give you what your comments have said to me.

I (YOU) believe that we must keep the Sabbath...(Saturday) the 7th day of the week as part of our faith.

I (YOU) believe that it is an act of obedience on my part.

I (YOU) do not think that it is part of salvation, "but" it is something that I need to do to be complete and in compliance with God.

Now......may I say to you that you are free to do that. If you choose to not do any work on the Sabbath, then do not do any work.
If you choose to not walk out of your house and down the block to get a gallon of milk on the Sabbath, then do not do it!
If you choose to not start a fire or turn on your oven to cook a meal on the Sabbath, then by all means, do not do it.

From where I sit and from what I read from you and knowing what the Bible says, please feel free to do or not do those things that are bothersome to you. But please know that all of this is a PERSONAL choice on your part and no other Christian I know of is effected by what you are personally choosing to do or not do.

This is not the 1st time you and I have had this debate and may I say with all Christian love to you, that Your agenda is a personal one and is not found in the Scriptures. YOU are the only one involved in your choice.
IMHO, You are in effect mixing Law with Grace and again, that is your choice to do so but it is in no a requirement for any one else.

Blessing to you my friend.
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Simply put..I believe that the 7th day is holy and as an act of faith I try to keep it that way.I believe that this is a way of God and part of His will for his chosen people.

The sabbath has nothing to do with buying milk or not,this is the thinking of the pharisees.

Isaiah 58:13- If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
 
crossnote said:
Am I mistaken or are there two ways to take the expression,
"the Sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath"?

On the one hand, it seems it could be taken in a beneficial way... the sabbath is for man's benefit,
on the other hand it could be taken in a matter of comparison... the sabbath is for made for man, not made for God.

(help)
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Hey..100% on point..the sabbath is for our benefit.
 
Well delighting ourselves in the Lord sounds fun.
Spare a thought for those who need to work and process milk on Sunday so that YOU can have milk on Monday.
Unless of course, you just drink water one day of the week.

Was the sabbath just ONE day? Because I heard you can take a sabbatical for an entire YEAR. And plus, with the moon cycle, barren periods are actually 5-7 days, and most women's menstrual cycles are that long as well. It wasn't just once every seven days. You would have a fertile period, a waxing and then a waning, and then 2-3 days when there was absolutely NOTHING you could do except rest.
 
Lanolin said:
Of course, men don't really understand times of the month like we women do.
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Lol..definitely not..my whole arguement is not what people choose to do with their time.My argument is that God created 7days and he blessed and made holy the 7th.My point is that the blessing still stands today. God did not remove the blessing and so changing his creation.
 
RDJ said:
Simply put..I believe that the 7th day is holy and as an act of faith I try to keep it that way.I believe that this is a way of God and part of His will for his chosen people.

The sabbath has nothing to do with buying milk or not,this is the thinking of the pharisees.

Isaiah 58:13- If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
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There you go my man. You do what you think is good for "you".
 
Major said:
There you go my man. You do what you think is good for "you".
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You seem to have made this about me and not about truth.

You have suggested in posts gone by that Im following what I've been told.But allow me to say this-when I began my walk with God ,I had no preconceived ideas about what it meant to be a christian.

My wife told me I should go to church on Sunday while a family member of mine said I should keep the sabbath.And so this was something always on my mind from the beginning,and as I started growing in the word with the teaching of the Holy Spirit ,I slowly realised that there isn't any scriptural evidence for Sunday observance along with many other traditions.I've visited many churches and gone around asking questions with an open mind and could never get solid answers.

The Holy Spririt through the Word has grown me up to this point in my life and theres still alot growing left.But to convince me of a lie is not going to be easy.

This is not about you or about me.
Its about the truth and there be few that find it according to God's Word.
 
RDJ said:
My point is not the command.My point is that through the command we see that there is no difference between the first 7th day at creation and every other 7th day that followed.

The very nature of the 7th day is holy..this is the point.

Is the 7th day still holy at these end times? Yes it is.By nature the day is inherently holy.

Isaiah 58:13- If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

1Chronicles 17:27- Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O Lord, and it shall be blessed for ever.
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You referenced, OT writings that relate to the Jews and their bondage under the Law. How is that relevant for us today? Yes, it was indeed said to be holy by the Lord and His prophets. I have no issues with that. Where do we see Paul instructing the Gentile churches about the continuance of such? Nowhere. Where do we see Peter, or Luke, or John instructing the Church to observe as any more holy the Jewish sabbath in relation to any other day of the week? None. Now, there are some verses I've seen ripped out of their NT contexts and applied as backing for an alleged continuance of sabbath-keeping on the basis of that day being holy, but the context brings those houses of cards flopping down when applied properly.

Again, anyone who brings themselves under any point of the Law, and violates in ANY point of the Law, they are guilty of all. That one reality goes ignored by so many legalists out there from my experience. Isaiah and the writer of 1 Chronicles were both men under the Law, which was UNTIL John the baptist.

So, pray tell, how does one observe the sabbath in modern times? What does that look like? How is it practiced? What is not done in that day?

If we do as the Jews, we're no longer wild branches, but rather branches made into what the Jews consider an extension of themselves. I don't want that for myself. I remain a wild branch...

MM
 
Judging by the many posts in this thread ,it seems to me that we want nothing to do
Musicmaster said:
You referenced, OT writings that relate to the Jews and their bondage under the Law. How is that relevant for us today? Yes, it was indeed said to be holy by the Lord and His prophets. I have no issues with that. Where do we see Paul instructing the Gentile churches about the continuance of such? Nowhere. Where do we see Peter, or Luke, or John instructing the Church to observe as any more holy the Jewish sabbath in relation to any other day of the week? None. Now, there are some verses I've seen ripped out of their NT contexts and applied as backing for an alleged continuance of sabbath-keeping on the basis of that day being holy, but the context brings those houses of cards flopping down when applied properly.

Again, anyone who brings themselves under any point of the Law, and violates in ANY point of the Law, they are guilty of all. That one reality goes ignored by so many legalists out there from my experience. Isaiah and the writer of 1 Chronicles were both men under the Law, which was UNTIL John the baptist.

So, pray tell, how does one observe the sabbath in modern times? What does that look like? How is it practiced? What is not done in that day?

If we do as the Jews, we're no longer wild branches, but rather branches made into what the Jews consider an extension of themselves. I don't want that for myself. I remain a wild branch...

MM
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Thanks for acknowledging my point which was that the 7th day is indeed holy even this very day that you are currently in.

On to the law side of things now.

So you don't believe the ten commandments are relevant to Christians today?
 
RDJ said:
You seem to have made this about me and not about truth.

You have suggested in posts gone by that Im following what I've been told.But allow me to say this-when I began my walk with God ,I had no preconceived ideas about what it meant to be a christian.

My wife told me I should go to church on Sunday while a family member of mine said I should keep the sabbath.And so this was something always on my mind from the beginning,and as I started growing in the word with the teaching of the Holy Spirit ,I slowly realised that there isn't any scriptural evidence for Sunday observance along with many other traditions.I've visited many churches and gone around asking questions with an open mind and could never get solid answers.

The Holy Spririt through the Word has grown me up to this point in my life and theres still alot growing left.But to convince me of a lie is not going to be easy.

This is not about you or about me.
Its about the truth and there be few that find it according to God's Word.
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You say this sabbath topic is not about you, but the above post is very much about you. You said you had no preconceived idea of what it meant to be a Christian, so you're wife tells you to go to Church and a family member says to keep the sabbath and the Holy Spirit helped you grow.
Since going to Church, what is your idea about what it means to be a Christian? and more importantly, how does one become a Christian?
 
RDJ said:
Judging by the many posts in this thread ,it seems to me that we want nothing to do

Thanks for acknowledging my point which was that the 7th day is indeed holy even this very day that you are currently in.

On to the law side of things now.

So you don't believe the ten commandments are relevant to Christians today?
Click to expand...

Like I said before, under the New Covenant, every day is holy.

How do you define "relevant"? What would that mean for them to be relevant for Christians today?

You avoided my questions to you about the sabbath and sabbath keeping. How does one observe the sabbath in modern times? What does that look like? How is it practiced? What is not done in that day? What can be done in that day if it is holy in the same sense for us as it was back then to the Jews?

MM
 
RDJ said:
You seem to have made this about me and not about truth.

You have suggested in posts gone by that Im following what I've been told.But allow me to say this-when I began my walk with God ,I had no preconceived ideas about what it meant to be a christian.

My wife told me I should go to church on Sunday while a family member of mine said I should keep the sabbath.And so this was something always on my mind from the beginning,and as I started growing in the word with the teaching of the Holy Spirit ,I slowly realised that there isn't any scriptural evidence for Sunday observance along with many other traditions.I've visited many churches and gone around asking questions with an open mind and could never get solid answers.

The Holy Spririt through the Word has grown me up to this point in my life and theres still alot growing left.But to convince me of a lie is not going to be easy.

This is not about you or about me.
Its about the truth and there be few that find it according to God's Word.
Click to expand...

What is for sure is that Truth is elusive, and it comes by searching for it, thus, considering all possible angles to a situation. When only one is chosen, it leads to tunnel vision and a kind of “ostrich effect,” whereby one puts one’s head in the sand and ignores possibilities that go contrary to a specific version of the truth.

In Colossians 2:16-17 the apostle God declares.........
“Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.”

Romans 14:5 God also states that........
“One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.”

These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God. Sabbath-keeping is an issue on which God’s Word instructs us not to judge each other. Sabbath-keeping is a matter about which each Christian needs to be fully convinced in his/her own mind.

A common error in the Sabbath-keeping debate including the one we have been having is the concept that the Sabbath was the day of worship. To name one, the Seventh Day Adventists hold that God requires the church service to be held on Saturday, the Sabbath day. That is not what the Sabbath command was. The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day and had nothing to do with worship at all.

Yes, Jews in Old Testament, New Testament, and modern times use Saturday as the day of worship, but that is not the essence of the Sabbath command. In the book of Acts, whenever a meeting is said to be on the Sabbath, it is a meeting of Jews and/or Gentile converts to Judaism, not Christians.

So you see, it is not at all bout truth. It is about choices! You my friend have made the decision that keeping the Sabbath is important to you. I have made the decision that is support by the Scriptures that keeping the Sabbath is not important to me.

Again....may the Lrd continue to bless you!
 
RDJ said:
Judging by the many posts in this thread ,it seems to me that we want nothing to do

Thanks for acknowledging my point which was that the 7th day is indeed holy even this very day that you are currently in.

On to the law side of things now.

So you don't believe the ten commandments are relevant to Christians today?
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Quote from John Calvin.........
"Hence, though the sabbath is abrogated, it so happens among us that we still convene on certain days in order to hear the word of God, to break the [mystic] bread of the Supper, and to offer public prayers; and, moreover, in order that some relaxation from their toil be given to servants and workingmen. As our human weakness does not allow such assemblies to meet every day, the day observed by the Jews has been taken away (as a good device for eliminating superstition) and another day has been destined to this use. This was necessary for securing and maintaining order and peace in the Church.

As the truth therefore was given to the Jews under a figure, so to us on the contrary truth is shown without shadows in order, first of all, that we meditate all our life on a perpetual sabbath from our works so that the Lord may operate in us by his spirit; secondly, in order that we observe the legitimate order of the Church for listening to the word of God, for admin-istering the sacraments, and for public prayers; thirdly, in order that we do not oppress inhumanly with work those who are subject to us. "
[From Instruction in Faith, Calvin's own 1537 digest of the Institutes, sec. 8, "The Law of the Lord"].
 
RDJ said:
Judging by the many posts in this thread ,it seems to me that we want nothing to do

Thanks for acknowledging my point which was that the 7th day is indeed holy even this very day that you are currently in.

On to the law side of things now.

So you don't believe the ten commandments are relevant to Christians today?
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You said..........
"On to the law side of things now."

If we follow your line of thinking to its end, we will find that we must STONE homosexuals and adulterers and liars as that is also in the Law.
 
Musicmaster said:
Like I said before, under the New Covenant, every day is holy.

How do you define "relevant"? What would that mean for them to be relevant for Christians today?

You avoided my questions to you about the sabbath and sabbath keeping. How does one observe the sabbath in modern times? What does that look like? How is it practiced? What is not done in that day? What can be done in that day if it is holy in the same sense for us as it was back then to the Jews?

MM
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Do you have scripture for "everyday day is holy"?

They are relevant to me because they show me how to love My God and how to love my brother as myself.

The old covenant focused on the letter of the law(ten commandants) but we in the new covenant focus on the spirit of the law.The spirit of the law is love.

The law is spiritual.

2Corinthians 3:6- Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 7:14- For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 when Paul talks about being dead to the law,he is not saying that the law is dead, but that through Christ we are dead to the law.Through Christ we pass from living in the flesh to living in the spirit.

Isaiah 58 is a good place to start if you want to know what the sabbath is about.
 
crossnote said:
You say this sabbath topic is not about you, but the above post is very much about you. You said you had no preconceived idea of what it meant to be a Christian, so you're wife tells you to go to Church and a family member says to keep the sabbath and the Holy Spirit helped you grow.
Since going to Church, what is your idea about what it means to be a Christian? and more importantly, how does one become
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Yes the above post is very much about me.

To follow Jesus Christ is what it means to be a Christian.

To believe in Jesus Christ is how you become a Christian.
 
RDJ said:
Do you have scripture for "everyday day is holy"?
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I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and beliefs. As for me, I point only to what is written:

Romans 14:5-11

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

I am content to regard every day sacred and holy unto the Lord. I never denied what the Lord had declared for that one day in the creation week, and I do not deny His command to all Israel for that day unto them. Who were the Israelites? They were some of the most stiff-necked, resistant peoples imaginable. They are the Lord's, and I pray for them.

So, in answer to your question above, no. I don't have a scripture that specifies what you are seeking for an answer. You either accept the Spirit and words the Lord spoke through the hand of the writer of Romans, or you do not. That is neither here nor there with me. So long as you seek the Lord with all your heart, in the manner you choose to serve Him, then by all means, do so.

Does that help you to understand the distinction between that first week, the following weeks through what was commanded of Israel, and what is our inheritance, our freedom, as the Church?

MM
 
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