Order of Events in the Gathering?

I think the longest anyone can sit still for in a gathering would probably be around 90 minutes, without going thirsty or hungry or needing to go to the toilet.
If people need to go in and out all the time that's distracting, but I suppose there are churches that are like 'drop in' churches and you can go there and gather at any time. But most gatherings have set hours and set days.

Of course the beauty of communicating online via the written word, is that we can take our time and be across all time zones.
 
Musicmaster said:
There's no right answer to the wrong question, RDJ. It's not a matter of whether the "hallowedness" carried on to the following seventh days of each week thereafter. The text states what I pointed out quite succinctly form the KJV text itself, in that the "hallowedness" is stated as singular, not plural. That singular day, in that one week, which leaves no room for any other day sharing in that special attribution from what I can see in the text, is the only one addressed in that context. No others are in any way represented as even a suggested possibility, unless you can point it out to me. The context does not even suggest that what was applied to that very day in the creation week was in perpetuity. If you believe otherwise, which I'm already convinced that you do, then please provide backing for that belief.

Now, to avoid the inevitable matching of wits through manipulative questions designed to guide the other into some trap, I prefer to stick to the text itself, and I hope you will agree to that. In other words, rather than to ask me if I believe the "hallowedness" carried on to the following sabbaths, please show to me where I erred in any way in my exegesis. Where did I allegedly miss any clear indicator that the Lord intended for that special "hallowedness" within that one creation week sabbath to be carried on to other following weeks. Strong emotions about that belief you seem to grasp and hold to is not ample evidence for anything...other than you believe what you believe. That's fine. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I'm simply trying to understand why you believe what you believe about this. Let's stick to the text, not what either of us personally believes about days long since passed.

Thank you for indulging my curiosity. I love sharpening my exegetical blades, which helps me to hone in with precision onto topics throughout scriptures. We ALL need that sharpening...to keep us sharp.

MM
Click to expand...
Ok i think you are mis understanding me.
What im saying is that God created one week=7days.

That is why after the 7th day we go back to the 1st day.And so we repeat this one week long cycle for the rest of our lives.

Its the same creation week repeating itself through out our life span up to this very day.

This is why God commanded the jews to KEEP the 7th day holy because the same 7th day in which God rested and made holy repeats itself every week.

This is why as you say,the text is singular.That single blessing is for that single day,that day is part of one week,that one week repeats itself until the end of this world.

I urge you to just think about what im saying carefully.
 
RDJ said:
Ok i think you are mis understanding me.
What im saying is that God created one week=7days.

That is why after the 7th day we go back to the 1st day.And so we repeat this one week long cycle for the rest of our lives.

Its the same creation week repeating itself through out our life span up to this very day.

This is why God commanded the jews to KEEP the 7th day holy because the same 7th day in which God rested and made holy repeats itself every week.

This is why as you say,the text is singular.That single blessing is for that single day,that day is part of one week,that one week repeats itself until the end of this world.

I urge you to just think about what im saying carefully.
Click to expand...

Not to debate your opinion and not to oppose your thinking as I for one have never considered what you said.

I can only think about, what does the Sun and Moon playin the 7 day and 30 30 peroids?

Then I thought, what about the people who lived in the 4000 years before 60 AD when the calender was 1st brought into existence?
 
RDJ said:
Ok i think you are mis understanding me.
What im saying is that God created one week=7days.

That is why after the 7th day we go back to the 1st day.And so we repeat this one week long cycle for the rest of our lives.

Its the same creation week repeating itself through out our life span up to this very day.

This is why God commanded the jews to KEEP the 7th day holy because the same 7th day in which God rested and made holy repeats itself every week.

This is why as you say,the text is singular.That single blessing is for that single day,that day is part of one week,that one week repeats itself until the end of this world.

I urge you to just think about what im saying carefully.
Click to expand...

RDJ, from what I'm seeing in your clarification, I didn't misunderstand anything you were saying. You went even further by stating that the creation week is repeated to this very day. Depending on the basis for that comment, it can be right, and it can be totally wrong.

Frankly, I don't see the creation week itself being repeated in any manner or fashion, other than to say that the measure of time from thence is in seven day increments. That does not in any way give to us reason to say that the hallowedness of that one day, in that one week, carried forward to all other weeks thereafter.

Please allow me to explain why:

It says in that text in Genesis:

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

What sets apart that one day, in that one week, back there on that only and singular day, is that He then rested from ALL His work.

Recall my reference above where Jesus stated that the Father and He worked unto that very day He was addressed about working on the sabbath. So, He who created all things, rested from ALL His work ONLY on that one day way back there in time, and has been working every sabbath ever since. That is what sets that one day apart from all other seventh days to follow thereafter.

Can we agree on that, based upon what's written, or do you still have contentions about the exegesis I've presented to you?

Now some may argue that the implications of what I've brought out from the text suggests that the Lord commanded of the Israelites what He Himself doesn't follow since He works on the sabbath.

Yes. That is exactly what was going on. God is Sovereign, and I'm not going to argue with Him about His doing what is seemingly contrary to what He had commanded the Israelites. Nope. Not me. This is where His ways and His thoughts are above ours as the heavens are above the earth.

However, our conversation has given me yet another idea for a request to make of the Lord that He give to me His ways and His thoughts on this topic, no matter how much higher they are. I want them.

Gimme!...and thank the Lord for them.

MM
 
Am I mistaken or are there two ways to take the expression,
"the Sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath"?

On the one hand, it seems it could be taken in a beneficial way... the sabbath is for man's benefit,
on the other hand it could be taken in a matter of comparison... the sabbath is for made for man, not made for God.

(help)
 
Major said:
Not to debate your opinion and not to oppose your thinking as I for one have never considered what you said.

I can only think about, what does the Sun and Moon playin the 7 day and 30 30 peroids?

Then I thought, what about the people who lived in the 4000 years before 60 AD when the calender was 1st brought into existence?
Click to expand...
Hey Major...from my understanding the sun was used for telling time.Not sure how they told time at night.The moon was used to monitor what time of the month it is.In the bible you can find hints of this.

Sunset marks the beginning of a new day..That is why at the creation account in Genisis it says evening and morning were the first day and so on.Our days start at evening.The scripture you referenced to justify Sunday observance, about the disciples meeting upon the first day to break bread , is actually referring to Saturday evening.Follow the sequence of events carefully with saturday night in mind the story will make more sense.

The first calender im aware of is the one God gave to Isreal.

Im not sure of your reason for bringing up the calender.. But Monday will always be after Sunday regardless the date or what calendar you follow.
 
RDJ said:
Hey Major...from my understanding the sun was used for telling time.Not sure how they told time at night.The moon was used to monitor what time of the month it is.In the bible you can find hints of this.

Sunset marks the beginning of a new day..That is why at the creation account in Genisis it says evening and morning were the first day and so on.Our days start at evening.The scripture you referenced to justify Sunday observance, about the disciples meeting upon the first day to break bread , is actually referring to Saturday evening.Follow the sequence of events carefully with saturday night in mind the story will make more sense.

The first calender im aware of is the one God gave to Isreal.

Im not sure of your reason for bringing up the calender.. But Monday will always be after Sunday regardless the date or what calendar you follow.
Click to expand...

RDJ......Blessing to my brother but I did not bring it up.

YOU said............
"What im saying is that God created one week=7days.
That is why after the 7th day we go back to the 1st day.And so we repeat this one week long cycle for the rest of our lives.
Its the same creation week repeating itself through out our life span up to this very day."
 
Musicmaster said:
RDJ, from what I'm seeing in your clarification, I didn't misunderstand anything you were saying. You went even further by stating that the creation week is repeated to this very day. Depending on the basis for that comment, it can be right, and it can be totally wrong.

Frankly, I don't see the creation week itself being repeated in any manner or fashion, other than to say that the measure of time from thence is in seven day increments. That does not in any way give to us reason to say that the hallowedness of that one day, in that one week, carried forward to all other weeks thereafter.

Please allow me to explain why:

It says in that text in Genesis:

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

What sets apart that one day, in that one week, back there on that only and singular day, is that He then rested from ALL His work.

Recall my reference above where Jesus stated that the Father and He worked unto that very day He was addressed about working on the sabbath. So, He who created all things, rested from ALL His work ONLY on that one day way back there in time, and has been working every sabbath ever since. That is what sets that one day apart from all other seventh days to follow thereafter.

Can we agree on that, based upon what's written, or do you still have contentions about the exegesis I've presented to you?

Now some may argue that the implications of what I've brought out from the text suggests that the Lord commanded of the Israelites what He Himself doesn't follow since He works on the sabbath.

Yes. That is exactly what was going on. God is Sovereign, and I'm not going to argue with Him about His doing what is seemingly contrary to what He had commanded the Israelites. Nope. Not me. This is where His ways and His thoughts are above ours as the heavens are above the earth.

However, our conversation has given me yet another idea for a request to make of the Lord that He give to me His ways and His thoughts on this topic, no matter how much higher they are. I want them.

Gimme!...and thank the Lord for them.

MM
Click to expand...
You seem to be leaving out the part about God making the day holy..and then commanding Isreal to keep it holy.

That command is evidence enough to show that the 7th day was still holy at Exodus and so the need for Isreal to keep it holy.
 
Major said:
RDJ......Blessing to my brother but I did not bring it up.

YOU said............
"What im saying is that God created one week=7days.
That is why after the 7th day we go back to the 1st day.And so we repeat this one week long cycle for the rest of our lives.
Its the same creation week repeating itself through out our life span up to this very day."
Click to expand...
Ohhh ok..
 
RDJ said:
You seem to be leaving out the part about God making the day holy..and then commanding Isreal to keep it holy.

That command is evidence enough to show that the 7th day was still holy at Exodus and so the need for Isreal to keep it holy.
Click to expand...

The key here is your own words of........"commanding Israel to keep it holy".

Just to satisfy my curiosity, you keep using the words....."Holy".

In old country boy English...what is your definition of "Holy" concerning this 7th day or Sabbath.????
 
RDJ said:
You seem to be leaving out the part about God making the day holy..and then commanding Isreal to keep it holy.

That command is evidence enough to show that the 7th day was still holy at Exodus and so the need for Isreal to keep it holy.
Click to expand...

RDJ, I left nothing out. What God commanded of Israel has nothing to do with us Gentiles when it comes to the Law, of which the ten commandments are a part. Carrying over to us from what was given to them is a form of theft, enslavement, or whatever. Appealing to the benevolence of the holiness/hallowedness (or whatever word one may choose to attach to it) of the very first seventh day in relation to all others, that doesn't change anything.

Now, if you can substantiate your position with something that has more substance than merely a one-sentence statement about what you personally believe, then I welcome the dissertation for such. I did indeed mention the sabbath commanded of the Israelites, and that it was to be kept holy, so accusing me otherwise is a false accusation.

The observance requirement of the sabbath was not carried over to the Gentiles and the Church under the New Covenant. Again, if you believe otherwise, then please explain in detail. If you don't have time for that, then I accept that this all is just your personal belief, which has no relevance to and over anyone else outside your household.

Additionally, vague and general quotation of Jesus talking about keeping His commandments, that too fails to provide specificity. If you're going to teach others, then you should do so with substance rather than innuendo. No offense intended. It's just that I need substance from anyone who purports to be a teacher of scripture.

I totally support you and everyone else believing about this whatsoever you and they desire. This is not a central topic to the faith. To me and my family, every day is sacred and holy, and should be filled with holy living within every moment of each day given that we are NOW filled with Holy Spirit as born again believers. I rest from my labors if and when I can, giving thanks and glory to the Lord throughout all.

MM
 
crossnote said:
Am I mistaken or are there two ways to take the expression,
"the Sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath"?

On the one hand, it seems it could be taken in a beneficial way... the sabbath is for man's benefit,
on the other hand it could be taken in a matter of comparison... the sabbath is for made for man, not made for God.

(help)
Click to expand...

That is kind of like the word "remember".

Does it mean I told you this before.
Or does it mean from here on do not forget.
Or, write down so you will remember.
Or, tell your wife so she can remind you.
Or........
 
Musicmaster said:
RDJ, I left nothing out. What God commanded of Israel has nothing to do with us Gentiles when it comes to the Law, of which the ten commandments are a part. Carrying over to us from what was given to them is a form of theft, enslavement, or whatever. Appealing to the benevolence of the holiness/hallowedness (or whatever word one may choose to attach to it) of the very first seventh day in relation to all others, that doesn't change anything.

Now, if you can substantiate your position with something that has more substance than merely a one-sentence statement about what you personally believe, then I welcome the dissertation for such. I did indeed mention the sabbath commanded of the Israelites, and that it was to be kept holy, so accusing me otherwise is a false accusation.

The observance requirement of the sabbath was not carried over to the Gentiles and the Church under the New Covenant. Again, if you believe otherwise, then please explain in detail. If you don't have time for that, then I accept that this all is just your personal belief, which has no relevance to and over anyone else outside your household.

Additionally, vague and general quotation of Jesus talking about keeping His commandments, that too fails to provide specificity. If you're going to teach others, then you should do so with substance rather than innuendo. No offense intended. It's just that I need substance from anyone who purports to be a teacher of scripture.

I totally support you and everyone else believing about this whatsoever you and they desire. This is not a central topic to the faith. To me and my family, every day is sacred and holy, and should be filled with holy living within every moment of each day given that we are NOW filled with Holy Spirit as born again believers. I rest from my labors if and when I can, giving thanks and glory to the Lord throughout all.

MM
Click to expand...

Well stated and I agree!
 
RDJ said:
Ohhh ok..
Click to expand...

Now you are free to disagree but I am going to give you what your comments have said to me.

I (YOU) believe that we must keep the Sabbath...(Saturday) the 7th day of the week as part of our faith.

I (YOU) believe that it is an act of obedience on my part.

I (YOU) do not think that it is part of salvation, "but" it is something that I need to do to be complete and in compliance with God.

Now......may I say to you that you are free to do that. If you choose to not do any work on the Sabbath, then do not do any work.
If you choose to not walk out of your house and down the block to get a gallon of milk on the Sabbath, then do not do it!
If you choose to not start a fire or turn on your oven to cook a meal on the Sabbath, then by all means, do not do it.

From where I sit and from what I read from you and knowing what the Bible says, please feel free to do or not do those things that are bothersome to you. But please know that all of this is a PERSONAL choice on your part and no other Christian I know of is effected by what you are personally choosing to do or not do.

This is not the 1st time you and I have had this debate and may I say with all Christian love to you, that Your agenda is a personal one and is not found in the Scriptures. YOU are the only one involved in your choice.
IMHO, You are in effect mixing Law with Grace and again, that is your choice to do so but it is in no a requirement for any one else.

Blessing to you my friend.
 
Musicmaster said:
RDJ, from what I'm seeing in your clarification, I didn't misunderstand anything you were saying. You went even further by stating that the creation week is repeated to this very day. Depending on the basis for that comment, it can be right, and it can be totally wrong.

Frankly, I don't see the creation week itself being repeated in any manner or fashion, other than to say that the measure of time from thence is in seven day increments. That does not in any way give to us reason to say that the hallowedness of that one day, in that one week, carried forward to all other weeks thereafter.

Please allow me to explain why:

It says in that text in Genesis:

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

What sets apart that one day, in that one week, back there on that only and singular day, is that He then rested from ALL His work.

Recall my reference above where Jesus stated that the Father and He worked unto that very day He was addressed about working on the sabbath. So, He who created all things, rested from ALL His work ONLY on that one day way back there in time, and has been working every sabbath ever since. That is what sets that one day apart from all other seventh days to follow thereafter.

Can we agree on that, based upon what's written, or do you still have contentions about the exegesis I've presented to you?

Now some may argue that the implications of what I've brought out from the text suggests that the Lord commanded of the Israelites what He Himself doesn't follow since He works on the sabbath.

Yes. That is exactly what was going on. God is Sovereign, and I'm not going to argue with Him about His doing what is seemingly contrary to what He had commanded the Israelites. Nope. Not me. This is where His ways and His thoughts are above ours as the heavens are above the earth.

However, our conversation has given me yet another idea for a request to make of the Lord that He give to me His ways and His thoughts on this topic, no matter how much higher they are. I want them.

Gimme!...and thank the Lord for them.

MM
Click to expand...

Musicmaster said:
RDJ, I left nothing out. What God commanded of Israel has nothing to do with us Gentiles when it comes to the Law, of which the ten commandments are a part. Carrying over to us from what was given to them is a form of theft, enslavement, or whatever. Appealing to the benevolence of the holiness/hallowedness (or whatever word one may choose to attach to it) of the very first seventh day in relation to all others, that doesn't change anything.

Now, if you can substantiate your position with something that has more substance than merely a one-sentence statement about what you personally believe, then I welcome the dissertation for such. I did indeed mention the sabbath commanded of the Israelites, and that it was to be kept holy, so accusing me otherwise is a false accusation.

The observance requirement of the sabbath was not carried over to the Gentiles and the Church under the New Covenant. Again, if you believe otherwise, then please explain in detail. If you don't have time for that, then I accept that this all is just your personal belief, which has no relevance to and over anyone else outside your household.

Additionally, vague and general quotation of Jesus talking about keeping His commandments, that too fails to provide specificity. If you're going to teach others, then you should do so with substance rather than innuendo. No offense intended. It's just that I need substance from anyone who purports to be a teacher of scripture.

I totally support you and everyone else believing about this whatsoever you and they desire. This is not a central topic to the faith. To me and my family, every day is sacred and holy, and should be filled with holy living within every moment of each day given that we are NOW filled with Holy Spirit as born again believers. I rest from my labors if and when I can, giving thanks and glory to the Lord throughout all.

MM
Click to expand...
My point is not the command.My point is that through the command we see that there is no difference between the first 7th day at creation and every other 7th day that followed.

The very nature of the 7th day is holy..this is the point.

Is the 7th day still holy at these end times? Yes it is.By nature the day is inherently holy.

Isaiah 58:13- If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

1Chronicles 17:27- Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O Lord, and it shall be blessed for ever.
 
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