Order of Events in the Gathering?

When in small groups it can take a while for a group to learn to work together, but that's the whole part of being in a group or team.
Jesus team was not more than 12 disciples at a time.

Anything larger becomes unwieldy, so it then splits off to smaller groups and then grows and splits from there, like cell division (some groups are actually called 'cell groups'). I think this works a lot better the thing I find though is the weird thing where in some churches only women are allowed in one group and men go in another. Or it's done by age only. Or something else that makes it an exclusive group. I think the only requirement for a group to form is that you all love Jesus and want to learn.

In school what works is having a buddy for reading, it works really well when groups of 2 or 3 read together. Rather than have one teacher read to the entire class all the time. Also having elders help raise up the younger ones, but not in a bullying way which is the opposite, the elders put those who are younger down. I really don't like seeing that.
 
Marilyn,

Not at all a problem to come late to a conversation or an OP (original post). I welcome all people's thoughts.



.. One is left with having to go from one small group to another to find one that's got the right kinds of people who are not deeply governed by how we were all raised, which is self-reliance and self-sufficiency.

What's not happening...therein is the problem.

MM
Hi MM,

Yes you exposed the problem really well. So....perhaps we should turn to God`s way. What is that you say. Let`s look at what the Holy Spirit says through the Apostle Paul to his `son` in the Lord, Timothy

(Paul)`You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.` (2 Tim. 2: 1 - 3)

So we have -

1. Paul (amid other peers)
2. Timothy (related in a close way to Paul and learnt from him.)
3. Faithful men (related to Timothy and learn from him,)
4. Others (the faithful men related to Timothy then go on to teach others too.)
5. And so on.....

See the pattern - relationship, a few, teach, then help them to teach others also. Always done through RELATIONSHIP, and the focus is outward. The relationship and teaching occurs in 2`s & 3`s, and at any time that is suitable to the believers. It does NOT involve a public meeting, organisations, buildings, programs etc etc. it is called DISCIPLING and go teach as the Lord commanded.

So did Paul do this to others?

``Paul, Silvanus and Timothy,.....we were gentle among you, just as a mother cherishes her own children......you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged everyone of you as a father does his own children.` (1 Thess. 1: 1, 7 & 11)

The point is that it is not a static group but one that keeps developing outward. Yes there can be times when certain ones can come together in a larger group, (12 or so) (in a house)with music, sharing worship,fellowship, but the main function happens in the everyday life in the 2`s and 3`s,
then they go out to their 2`s and 3`s, and so on.

Hope that explains how we function by the Holy Spirit over here.

Marilyn.
 
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Hi MM,

Yes you exposed the problem really well. So....perhaps we should turn to God`s way. What is that you say. Let`s look at what the Holy Spirit says through the Apostle Paul to his `son` in the Lord, Timothy

(Paul)`You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.` (2 Tim. 2: 1 - 3)

So we have -

1. Paul (amid other peers)
2. Timothy (related in a close way to Paul and learnt from him.)
3. Faithful men (related to Timothy and learn from him,)
4. Others (the faithful men related to Timothy then go on to teach others too.)
5. And so on.....

See the pattern - relationship, a few, teach, then help them to teach others also. Always done through RELATIONSHIP, and the focus is outward. The relationship and teaching occurs in 2`s & 3`s, and at any time that is suitable to the believers. It does NOT involve a public meeting, organisations, buildings, programs etc etc. it is called DISCIPLING and go teach as the Lord commanded.

So did Paul do this to others?

``Paul, Silvanus and Timothy,.....we were gentle among you, just as a mother cherishes her own children......you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged everyone of you as a father does his own children.` (1 Thess. 1: 1, 7 & 11)

The point is that it is not a static group but one that keeps developing outward. Yes there can be times when certain ones can come together in a larger group, (12 or so) (in a house)with music, sharing worship,fellowship, but the main function happens in the everyday life in the 2`s and 3`s,
then they go out to their 2`s and 3`s, and so on.

Hope that explains how we function by the Holy Spirit over here.

Marilyn.

Oh, yes. I'm a firm believer in discipleship. Absolutely. That's the one thing that goes mostly ignored, and therefore turning that over to Sunday school and church services. Discipleship is a relational way of living, not in isolation and programmatic approaches. I disciple at every opportunity.

The problem in today's world, though, is that most of those coming to the faith don't want to apply the effort and time to to settle down enough to allow themselves to be discipled. One young fella Tuesday I met with to begin discipling said that, when I walked into the restaurant to meet with him, he could see the authority in and round me. I don't know what that means or how to take it, so I told him that I praise the Lord for it since He is the source of any and all authority. That young fella, however, is just too caught up with life to apply time to being discipled.

He fails to understand that, when we have ALL our priorities in order, then the chaos of all other aspects of our lives fall into order, and that not making the Lord and His instruction the top priority, his and all other lives like his will remain chaos.

Preaching to the choir here, huh? (sheepish grin)

MM
 
Oh, yes. I'm a firm believer in discipleship. Absolutely. That's the one thing that goes mostly ignored, and therefore turning that over to Sunday school and church services. Discipleship is a relational way of living, not in isolation and programmatic approaches. I disciple at every opportunity. The problem in today's world, though, is that most of those coming to the faith don't want to apply the effort and time to to settle down enough to allow themselves to be discipled. One young fella Tuesday I met with to begin discipling said that, when I walked into the restaurant to meet with him, he could see the authority in and round me. I don't know what that means or how to take it, so I told him that I praise the Lord for it since He is the source of any and all authority. That young fella, however, is just too caught up with life to apply time to being discipled. He fails to understand that, when we have ALL our priorities in order, then the chaos of all other aspects of our lives fall into order, and that not making the Lord and His instruction the top priority, his and all other lives like his will remain chaos.
Preaching to the choir here, huh? (sheepish grin)
MM

Hello Musicmaster;

When I was discipled (still am) included the Order of Events in the Gathering. Many new visitors and believers will enter church and treat church by going through the motions. I went through that so when I was confronted by the pastor, Bible study teacher or leader I would put them on a pedestal from seeing them "up front" all the time.

I also experience the same thing you posted when I meet a new disciple for coffee.

As the Holy Spirit moves, I also preach to the choir. We all need to be admonished but being mindful, in love and patience.
 
Groups of 2 or 3 are so much more effective than trying to gather everyone in one place all the time.
Reading the Bible is part of discipleship, if people don't know how to read a book stick with reading it and finish it they will probably be a bit sunk. Reading can happen every day or when you get a chance.

Instead of watching tv, or reading the newspaper you can read the Bible. It's not hard its just people don't make time for it. But if you commit yourself you can do it.
 
Oh, yes. I'm a firm believer in discipleship. Absolutely. That's the one thing that goes mostly ignored, and therefore turning that over to Sunday school and church services. Discipleship is a relational way of living, not in isolation and programmatic approaches. I disciple at every opportunity.

The problem in today's world, though, is that most of those coming to the faith don't want to apply the effort and time to to settle down enough to allow themselves to be discipled. One young fella Tuesday I met with to begin discipling said that, when I walked into the restaurant to meet with him, he could see the authority in and round me. I don't know what that means or how to take it, so I told him that I praise the Lord for it since He is the source of any and all authority. That young fella, however, is just too caught up with life to apply time to being discipled.

He fails to understand that, when we have ALL our priorities in order, then the chaos of all other aspects of our lives fall into order, and that not making the Lord and His instruction the top priority, his and all other lives like his will remain chaos.

Preaching to the choir here, huh? (sheepish grin)

MM
Yes I quite understand MM. However as we pray and ask the Lord to send who he wants us to disciple, then I believe He will. As to discipling or mentoring it is a process of coming alongside some one and being interested in them and their journey. It is not a process of just giving information. That is the system`s approach. As a person sees that you are really interested in them and not just down loading info then they will respond, Yes some slowly over years, but then didn`t the Lord take 3 years at least with His.

I only have a few disciples, however I am seeing that now they are discipling others and doing the hard yards of everyday life, through their disciple`s ups and downs. We see it more as mutual relationships where we help others and if they desire to come and share their life then we live that with them. Along the way topics come up and then they can be discussed. It is a life-journey with some one. Didn`t the Lord do that, live with His relationships?

When some one knows you care, really care and listen to them, really listen and not try and teach, and teach, then they will respond and eventually listen to Godly wisdom you help them with.

Just some thoughts to what I am learning. Marilyn.

Marilyn.
 
I find that the Lord just sends me people when it's time for me to disciple them, and they are hungry to learn.
It might be 1 or 2 or it might be a whole class, depends. It's not the same as teaching, (as is typically thought of ) it's more like training. At the moment one I've been seeing regularly for a few years now has started her own broadcast reaching out to people, so she's really got a lot of Bible in her now. When I first met her, she was so hungry for wisdom but then she started going to a bible class regularly and we went to a few christian seminars and retreats and things so I kinda was with her on her journey. I think now she can hold her own.

With the children I have now, they don't have formal or regular bible lessons they are only at the stage of discovering the Bible and reading words! Once they get a lot more practice and know that reading doesn't have to be a chore, they start borrowing the Bible and being quite curious about who God is and asking questions about Him.
 
I find that the Lord just sends me people when it's time for me to disciple them, and they are hungry to learn.
It might be 1 or 2 or it might be a whole class, depends. It's not the same as teaching, (as is typically thought of ) it's more like training. At the moment one I've been seeing regularly for a few years now has started her own broadcast reaching out to people, so she's really got a lot of Bible in her now. When I first met her, she was so hungry for wisdom but then she started going to a bible class regularly and we went to a few christian seminars and retreats and things so I kinda was with her on her journey. I think now she can hold her own.

With the children I have now, they don't have formal or regular bible lessons they are only at the stage of discovering the Bible and reading words! Once they get a lot more practice and know that reading doesn't have to be a chore, they start borrowing the Bible and being quite curious about who God is and asking questions about Him.

I had a teenage girl with me from Australia who came over here on a student exchange program. Natalie was her name. She told me how so many of her friends had committed suicide. She didn't want to attend church services at all, no matter what type of order and content any of them had.

Suspecting the root cause of her strong resistance to looking into the God of hope and salvation, she was emphatic about her disbelief in God and Satan. I told her, "You're right where he wants you."

She looked at me with a mixture of surprise and doubt, asked WHO had her where he wanted her. I told her that an enemy will always hide and remain out of sight, not wanting his victims to know he's there, nor what his plans are. Asking who HE is, I said Satan.

Sinking back into her shell, I told her to just assume, for the sake of making a point, that Satan exists. I left it to her to make the connection as to his tactics, and what they would be in order to keep people from belief in God, and especially about Satan's own existence. She was intelligent enough to admit that such was correct, but that she knew for a fact that God and Satan were not real. The strong Darwinian teachings in public schools had her tightly enveloped in their bat wings of evolution, and she never did want to talk about any of it beyond that point.

MM
 
I don't think anyone seriously believes Darwin in school...when it was 'taught' in my high school heaps of students questioned it and thought it was a joke.
I remember doing biology and we did things like dissection and we also explored fossils and geology, but we only ever got high marks if we regurgitated it from textbooks. So students did but that doesn't necessarly mean everyone unthinkingly believed it. lol

As for the supernatural, I don't know about your culture but ours its a given there is a spirit world, and there are such things as demons (and angels) so it must be a cultural thing with British people perhaps ---Darwin being a Brit.

Possibly in Australia they are very anti-God and anti-spirit (look at their colonial history) , they even named a town after Darwin. I recall meeting some Aussies on a cruise and we were having a service and Bible session and they said many of the churches are just dead there. The ones that are left have American style prosperity gospel teachings in them. That actually puts a lot of young people off actually, because young people don't have money, and all those churches are constantly asking for peoples money.
 
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A lot of what I learned in high school and university I would question, I don't know if its just me, but I just don't accept anything without questioning it. So I never got to the point where I was 'brainwashed' or 'indoctrinated' to anything public school taught. It was all open for inquiry.

A lot of what is taught in schools is actually out of date. For example horticulture. They were teaching farming and horticultural practices that are now deemed to be harmful to the environment. They were teaching chemical warfare when organic processes that have worked for centuries were totally ignored.

First aid courses. Every time I go on a first aid course, the teachings change. I found out that the hiemlich maneuver which was taught previously is actually really harmful! It's better to band someone on the back or the sternum.

But thing is a student does not have much say over what gets taught they just have to take it all in and then make up their own mind what they will take away from it. It's never that students are just totally learn every single thing their teacher teaches them vebatim and never questions it.

When you start applying the teachings to your life thats when you find out if it does or doesn't work. I'm not gonna blame a public school for lack of God in peoples lives. I reckon it's primarily the parents responsibility model faith and love and then students will find that that WORKS and they ought to train a child in the way they should go, if they are, then some silly 'millions of years' nonsense is going to slide off a believers back.

It's more that people are not interested, then 'know for a fact' God and Satan aren't real. One can easily direct them to Israel and show them all the places in the Bible and the evidence is there all around and the people who are there today.
 
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I had a teenage girl with me from Australia who came over here on a student exchange program. Natalie was her name. She told me how so many of her friends had committed suicide. She didn't want to attend church services at all, no matter what type of order and content any of them had. Suspecting the root cause of her strong resistance to looking into the God of hope and salvation, she was emphatic about her disbelief in God and Satan. I told her, "You're right where he wants you." She looked at me with a mixture of surprise and doubt, asked WHO had her where he wanted her. I told her that an enemy will always hide and remain out of sight, not wanting his victims to know he's there, nor what his plans are. Asking who HE is, I said Satan. Sinking back into her shell, I told her to just assume, for the sake of making a point, that Satan exists. I left it to her to make the connection as to his tactics, and what they would be in order to keep people from belief in God, and especially about Satan's own existence. She was intelligent enough to admit that such was correct, but that she knew for a fact that God and Satan were not real. The strong Darwinian teachings in public schools had her tightly enveloped in their bat wings of evolution, and she never did want to talk about any of it beyond that point.
MM

Hello Musicmaster;

I enjoyed reading about your experience witnessing to Natalie. I don't know how old she is today, but I have to believe with hope and faith what you planted in her heart. At the time she may have dismissed what you shared but she will remember and one day come around and accept Jesus into her life.

I also witnessed to young people, teenage and college, who had the "smart comebacks" or was influenced in school by the disbelief of God. I'm not saying everyone receives the Word at that time and moment but one day it could happen. If Natalie is intelligent enough, she will remember what you shared years later.

I feel you and I are in agreement with this for Christ; we have to continue to press on to the next one and next who will cross our paths.

God bless you and your family.
 
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