Our mortal enemy has deceived the church with many lies

Aug 6, 2016
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[QUOTE="Complete, post: 444828, member: 16304
* The Lord Jesus Christ has already overcome sin. Sin no longer has dominion over us.
What we do have to do is submit ourselves to God and resist the devil, and he will flee from us.
Notice that submitting ourselves to God comes before resisting.[/QUOTE]

One thing at a time.
IMO, this submitting and resisting is a necessary part of overcoming.
And this has nothing to do with the grace-only OSAS doctrine.

Please notice that Jesus was obedient and successful in doing this.
Rev 3:21
"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."
 

Cturtle

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Just that I tried to post this thread on 2 different occasions.
I can assure you Samuels that we at cfs are not intentionally blocking the submission of your thread. Please try one more time...if it does not post please pm Colonel to see if he can sort things out and figure out what happened. There have been some updates in the past few days and could have resulted in a glitch or two.

Blessings of grace and peace be yours in abundance
 
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Oct 29, 2015
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Lake Tenkiller, Oklahoma
I am sorry my brother but I am going to have to reject your thesis.

The Christian is "Prepared" for the coming of Christ to remove His children before the A/C is revealed and before the Tribulation period. I do not say that on my own accord but instead because that is what the Bible teaches us.

I Thessalonians 5:9 ..............
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ".

What then is the "wrath" of God?

Zephaniah 1:14-15 & 18..........
"The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasenteth , even the voice of the day of the LORD: . . . 15: That day is a day of wrath, . . a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, . . . 18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land".

A close and deep study of the Scriptures show us that the word "Wrath" almost always refers to the anger of God against the unrighteous that results in punishment.

The seven year period of Tribulation on earth right after the Rapture will be a time of God’s wrath on earth like never before. He will judge the nations and through this self-same judgment bring Israel back in faith believing.

Rev. 6:17 says...............
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

But concerning His bride, the Church, the Scriptures say in 1 Thess. 1:10......
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Then in Rev. 3:10 Jesus promised .........
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

I appreciate your promises and I know you mean well, but I for one am going to stick with the promises Jesus made.
Pray that ye be counted worthy to stand when Jesus comes back in the clouds in power and glory and all His angels by His side.

And pray that ye be counted worthy to escape the day the Lord pours His wrath upon this earth.
 
Oct 29, 2015
167
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Lake Tenkiller, Oklahoma
[QUOTE="Complete, post: 444828, member: 16304
* The Lord Jesus Christ has already overcome sin. Sin no longer has dominion over us.
What we do have to do is submit ourselves to God and resist the devil, and he will flee from us.
Notice that submitting ourselves to God comes before resisting.
One thing at a time.
IMO, this submitting and resisting is a necessary part of overcoming.
And this has nothing to do with the grace-only OSAS doctrine.

Please notice that Jesus was obedient and successful in doing this.
Rev 3:21
"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."
[/QUOTE]
I resisted the devil and lay the gun down, while submitting myself to God, crying out Abba Father. And he lifted me up and made me free. Amen
 
Aug 6, 2016
53
33
18
Canada
Satan’s lie: The spiritual power gifts were not needed after the Canon was available
1 Corinthians 13:8-10 does NOT refer to the time when the Bible is available.
IMO, almost all of the older denominations have now retracted from their long-held position.
And the newer Bible translations have corrected the long-held misunderstanding of the KJV.
1 Cor 13:10
KJV • “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.”
NASB • “but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.”
NIV • “but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.”
NLT • “But when the time of perfection comes, these partial things will become useless.”
NCV • “But when perfection comes, the things that are not perfect will end.”
TLB • “But when we have been made perfect and complete, then the need for
these inadequate special gifts will come to an end, and they will disappear.”
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Satan’s lie: The spiritual power gifts were not needed after the Canon was available
1 Corinthians 13:8-10 does NOT refer to the time when the Bible is available.
IMO, almost all of the older denominations have now retracted from their long-held position.
And the newer Bible translations have corrected the long-held misunderstanding of the KJV.
1 Cor 13:10
KJV • “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.”
NASB • “but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.”
NIV • “but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.”
NLT • “But when the time of perfection comes, these partial things will become useless.”
NCV • “But when perfection comes, the things that are not perfect will end.”
TLB • “But when we have been made perfect and complete, then the need for
these inadequate special gifts will come to an end, and they will disappear.”

There are only two perfect things that have come.

1). Jesus Christ
2). The Bible.

1 Corth. 13:8 sums it up clearly...............
"Charity never fails; but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail, whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall fade away".

Since to teleion ("the perfect") is the counterpart to to ek rmerous ("that which is in part"), it is absolutely clear that the "perfect" also refers to those same verbs. Therefore, the word "perfect" describes the completion of inspired preaching and points to the consequent cessation of the spiritual gifts which enabled and confirmed that preaching.

I am well aware that a lot of people do not want to accept that, but it is none the less the truth of Greek grammar.
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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There are only two perfect things that have come.

1). Jesus Christ
2). The Bible.

1 Corth. 13:8 sums it up clearly...............
"Charity never fails; but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail, whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall fade away".

Since to teleion ("the perfect") is the counterpart to to ek rmerous ("that which is in part"), it is absolutely clear that the "perfect" also refers to those same verbs. Therefore, the word "perfect" describes the completion of inspired preaching and points to the consequent cessation of the spiritual gifts which enabled and confirmed that preaching.

I am well aware that a lot of people do not want to accept that, but it is none the less the truth of Greek grammar.
Hi Major,
People do tend to trip over words and Perfect is truly one of those words.

OK we all Agree that God is Perfect and His most Holy Written Word is Perfect.
........With God truly being the definition of Perfect. .....how then can we claim anything or anyone else to be perfect......to do so would Truly Bring God Down to the level of anything else and that ain't gonna happen.

Now since people trip up on words so easily, you would think they would research these words and learn what they meant when they were First Spoken and First Written.

If you do so then you will find that the use of the word Perfect in God's Word is really Perfected.

Such as perfect heart.....perfected unto God's Word and ways of thinking.

We All need more Perfecting when it comes to the things of God and even if we lived a thousand years we would simply not be able to ever gain all there is.

Blessings my Brother
FCJ
 
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Pray that ye be counted worthy to stand when Jesus comes back in the clouds in power and glory and all His angels by His side.

And pray that ye be counted worthy to escape the day the Lord pours His wrath upon this earth.
No one is worthy my child.

Is. 53:6........
"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all."

Rom. 3:10.............
"As it is written: there are none righteous, no, not one".

Matt. 10:37............
“Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me”.

This does not mean that we deserve Jesus, or merit Jesus, or earn Jesus. Nothing we do puts him in a position of owing us anything good.

But in spite of this God saves us anyway because of Jesus.

Eph. 2:4-10............
"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
 
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Hi Major,
People do tend to trip over words and Perfect is truly one of those words.

OK we all Agree that God is Perfect and His most Holy Written Word is Perfect.
........With God truly being the definition of Perfect. .....how then can we claim anything or anyone else to be perfect......to do so would Truly Bring God Down to the level of anything else and that ain't gonna happen.

Now since people trip up on words so easily, you would think they would research these words and learn what they meant when they were First Spoken and First Written.

If you do so then you will find that the use of the word Perfect in God's Word is really Perfected.

Such as perfect heart.....perfected unto God's Word and ways of thinking.

We All need more Perfecting when it comes to the things of God and even if we lived a thousand years we would simply not be able to ever gain all there is.

Blessings my Brother
FCJ
Good point. Let me see if I can expand this a little based on your comment.

The original Greek Definition of perfect is the word......... "teleion".

Now I looked that up in several translations and found these definitions............
  1. VINE: "Signifies having reached its end, finished, complete, perfect"
  2. THAYER: "brought to its end, wanting nothing necessary to completeness; when used of men it means full-grown, adult, of full age, mature."
  3. BAGSTER: "brought to completion, complete, entire, as opposed to what is partial or limited"
  4. ARNDT & GINGRICH: "having attained the end or purpose, complete, perfect"
  5. The Greek word "perfect" does not denote the idea of blamelessness, perfection or complete holiness as our English word "perfect" does today.
  6. The Greek adjective translated "perfect" (teleios) means "having attained the end or purpose, complete."'

It may be applied to people with the meaning of "full-grown, mature, adult" being "perfect and entire, lacking in nothing' which is seen in Jas. 1:4. Or it may refer to the finality of anything, something which has been "brought to its end, finished." In contrast to the often-heard statement that "nothing in this world is perfect,".

So what is the point ???

It seems to me that when comparing the context of Scriptures, the "perfect " refers to the completion of the revelation of the Gospel or the canon of Scriptures.

You see, when we read the verses we see that Paul is contrasting "in part". In Greek grammar, "Perfect" is a generic verb that could refer to 1000's of things. In order to know what noun perfect modifies, we must use the context to determine this. That is what "context" is all about.

Two times we are specifically told by the Holy Spirit that "knowledge, know, knowing" is the "object noun" of "Perfect" .
1). "We know in part" we only know part of the truth
2). "But when the perfect comes" then we will know all of God's will for us.

Now take it a step further. It is an irrefutable conclusion that knowledge is the object noun of "perfect". This conclusion is reinforced by the parallel in Eph 4:13, "until we attain to the knowledge of the son of man".

Allow me to give you a comparison passage of 1 Cor .13:11 Corporate maturity illustration:

Child
33-100AD .....During the age of spiritual gifts when revelation of incomplete and the Bible was not fully written.

Man
100 AD - present.....Revelation complete, Bible finished in 96 AD. Gifts ceasing is equated directly with a man doing away with childish things.

Now, I fully understand that everyone does not agree with this explanation but I want you to know that it is perfectly OK not to agree with me. It is not a big deal to me in any way and I love you all anyway.
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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  1. The Greek adjective translated "perfect" (teleios) means "having attained the end or purpose, complete."'
Exactly and even Paul said in Philippians 3:12

Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect: but I press on, if so be that I may lay hold on that for which also I was laid hold on by Christ Jesus.

Now we can bet if Paul him self said he had not reached this......then we know we need More Perfecting.
Blessings
FCJ
 

Fish Catcher Jim

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Man
100 AD - present.....Revelation complete, Bible finished in 96 AD. Gifts ceasing is equated directly with a man doing away with childish things.
Hi Major,
Not sure I follow you here on this one.
Gifts of the Spirited compared to childish things? Am I reading this correctly?
Blessings
FCJ
 
Jun 26, 2015
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Hi Fish Catcher Jim,

I read your responses to Major, but why can't I see Major's entry to see what you are responding to? His entries are not visible. Why is this?

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Jun 26, 2015
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Believe me, Fish Catcher Jim ,

I am not able to see Major' s entries. #28 & 31 are missing. This is happening elsewhere as well with Major' s posts, they do not register, only the responses made to them, which is frustrating.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Hi Major,
Not sure I follow you here on this one.
Gifts of the Spirited compared to childish things? Am I reading this correctly?
Blessings
FCJ
It is a comparison based on 1 Corth. 13:8-11.

Verse #11 says......
"When I was a child I spake as a child and I understood as a child, but when I became a man I put away childish things."

That is Paul comparing the "sign Gifts" of verse #8 to his comment in verse # 10 which is the focus of the thread where he said............
"But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away with."

The thing that is in part or temporary is the sign gifts he states in verse # 8,
1). Where there be prophecies they shall fail.
2). Where there be tongues they shall cease.
3). where there be knowledge it shall vanish away.

Now I did not write those words. Paul wrote them with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. IMO we just can not look over them or explain them away. They are there no matter what we believe, they are still there.

Now then, to understand what "the perfect" is I think we need to understand 1 Corth 2:6 which says............
"Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are "perfect", yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world that come to nought".

We see there that Paul's meaning when taken into context is that the "perfect" refers to the morally and spiritually mature. Completed.

So then we see that phrase again in chapter 13, IMHO Paul is thinking the same thing which is mature, completed.
That same thought is also seen in Col. 3:14 and Heb. 6:1. It is neuter in the Greek grammar and sense Jesus was a man and not a thing, IMO the perfect then can only be the completed canon of Scriptures.

So then, the whole point I am making is that man thought as a child before he had the full revelation of God through the completed canon of Scriptures.
He (man) relied upon the apostles teaching that came through prophecies, tongues and knowledge.
Then when he had the full revelation of God in the mature, completed Word of God he could then think as a man and not a child because the partial revelation that came through tongues, knowledge and prophecies are no longer needed.

Again, not my words but Pauls in verse #8 concerning the ending of those gifts we are talking about is the Greek word "pauo". It is the most appropriate term in the Greek language that Paul could use to say that those gifts would cease. The imagery is that of immediate cessation.

Now I am fully aware that everyone does not accept that teaching. That does not make us enemies or combatants folks. Some us want to do those things listed by Paul to come to and end so those that want to will do them no matter what anyone says.

Believe me when I say that this is not something to argue over and lose friends. It is simply that the words are right there in the Bible and they need to be explained. No one, I mean no one has to agree with me.
However, you still must love me just as I love you, why????

Rom. 14:5.......
"...........We must all be fully persuaded in our own minds."
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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It is a comparison based on 1 Corth. 13:8-11.

Verse #11 says......
"When I was a child I spake as a child and I understood as a child, but when I became a man I put away childish things."

That is Paul comparing the "sign Gifts" of verse #8 to his comment in verse # 10 which is the focus of the thread where he said............
"But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away with."

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Major is not the word charity actually the word Love. Therefore Love is the topic.

As a child you speak silly and foolish things for you are without wisdom and education or knowledge and understanding.

But we grow up even in the things of God. We that is what we are to do but some folks seem to miss this part. Lol

I am still not understanding to how you arive at this. What am I missing here? I am trying brother.
God Bless
FCJ