Thanks guys.
Seems to be a strong consensus which I thought there would be. Some good posts. Thanks.
Seems to be a strong consensus which I thought there would be. Some good posts. Thanks.
Pastor doesn't want members praying or reading bible together
- Thread starter pavilion103
- Start date
I met with my pastor again.
His view is that the teaching/discussion has no accountability and can't be controlled.
He says that if he supports small groups of people catching up then more, less equipped people, will want to do the same thing which can be dangerous.
He said if we catch up casually and conversation goes into the bible it's ok but not to arrange a catch up for the purpose of discussing the Bible.
It's quite annoying to even hear this for someone like myself who talks about God and discusses the Bible in most conversations with people. To not be able to meet together as a small group of mature believers seems silly.
I would think that a pastor would LOVE for people to be doing this and pushing hard that instead of watching football or movies people are catching up and hungry for the Word.
It seems in this western culture Christianity truly is an accessory and put in a box for church days (church building!). My pastors are of good character and don't teach false doctrine but it seems like they are not driving us passionately.
I sit at home reading the Bible, commentaries, systematic theology books, studying church history, reading biographies or Whitfield, Finney, Muller etc. I have so much desire in me but I feel less motivated at church than I do at home.
I'm not sure that I feel God calling me to leave right now. There are many people I have formed great relationships with and can have a huge influence there. But I'm frustrated. I will continue so seek God in this matter.
His view is that the teaching/discussion has no accountability and can't be controlled.
He says that if he supports small groups of people catching up then more, less equipped people, will want to do the same thing which can be dangerous.
He said if we catch up casually and conversation goes into the bible it's ok but not to arrange a catch up for the purpose of discussing the Bible.
It's quite annoying to even hear this for someone like myself who talks about God and discusses the Bible in most conversations with people. To not be able to meet together as a small group of mature believers seems silly.
I would think that a pastor would LOVE for people to be doing this and pushing hard that instead of watching football or movies people are catching up and hungry for the Word.
It seems in this western culture Christianity truly is an accessory and put in a box for church days (church building!). My pastors are of good character and don't teach false doctrine but it seems like they are not driving us passionately.
I sit at home reading the Bible, commentaries, systematic theology books, studying church history, reading biographies or Whitfield, Finney, Muller etc. I have so much desire in me but I feel less motivated at church than I do at home.
I'm not sure that I feel God calling me to leave right now. There are many people I have formed great relationships with and can have a huge influence there. But I'm frustrated. I will continue so seek God in this matter.
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11
http://www.bibletopics.com/topics/267.htm
http://www.bibletopics.com/topics/659.htm
http://www.bibletopics.com/topics/760.htm
http://www.bibletopics.com/topics/854.htm
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11
http://www.bibletopics.com/topics/267.htm
http://www.bibletopics.com/topics/659.htm
http://www.bibletopics.com/topics/760.htm
http://www.bibletopics.com/topics/854.htm
I'm not sure what your main point is?
First two links seem to suggest that I should submit to the instructions of the pastors for the sake of peace.
The others I am unsure. Seem to suggest that I should examine the scriptures to see if the instruction is accurate and to not abandon my zeal.
Seek the Truth from the still small voice of the Holy Spirit as a Child of God.
Well, then, he needs to offer you accountability! The leadership needs to place their trust in strong believers of the congregation to lead! Gone are the days of the pulpit-centric churches! They are dying out, and rightly so. Jesus never established such an entity.
I am trying to understand your pastor (and am at a loss).
The only things I can think of are that there are controversies in the local community of believers (maybe different congregations or denominations) and he feels the need to forcefully exert his leadership.
Or, that he is worried that things heard in this informal venue will be taken to be the teachings of his ministry.
In the first case, I would think that he would be over-reaching. Respectful discussions of alternate viewpoints strengthen the body of Christ. Sometimes false teachings can creep in, but the best way of fighting this is with a strong message of Truth, not censorship. Just because there are doctinal differences does not mean the other guy's church is spreading false doctrine.
In the second case, it is the leadership of the congregation (pastor and lay leaders) that rightly determine the teaching of that church, but as long as you are not representing this study as being a ministry of his congregation, he should be encouraged by the diligence of the studiers.
The only things I can think of are that there are controversies in the local community of believers (maybe different congregations or denominations) and he feels the need to forcefully exert his leadership.
Or, that he is worried that things heard in this informal venue will be taken to be the teachings of his ministry.
In the first case, I would think that he would be over-reaching. Respectful discussions of alternate viewpoints strengthen the body of Christ. Sometimes false teachings can creep in, but the best way of fighting this is with a strong message of Truth, not censorship. Just because there are doctinal differences does not mean the other guy's church is spreading false doctrine.
In the second case, it is the leadership of the congregation (pastor and lay leaders) that rightly determine the teaching of that church, but as long as you are not representing this study as being a ministry of his congregation, he should be encouraged by the diligence of the studiers.
Here is a passage that spoke to me on the issue.
1 Peter 5:1 The elders who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: 2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; 3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock; 4 and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.
5 Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for
“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”
This is very balanced. Note v. 3 to not lord over the flock but be examples. And v. 5 submit yourselves to your elders. Also be submissive to each other and humble.
I think the answer is to make a policy for any group "catch ups" like this, to make notes of scripture and any pertinent information discussed to be given to the pastor. Then any group, even less equipped, will be overseen by him.
I think this satisfies being submissive to him and allows for the needed growth.
1 Peter 5:1 The elders who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: 2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; 3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock; 4 and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.
5 Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for
“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”
This is very balanced. Note v. 3 to not lord over the flock but be examples. And v. 5 submit yourselves to your elders. Also be submissive to each other and humble.
I think the answer is to make a policy for any group "catch ups" like this, to make notes of scripture and any pertinent information discussed to be given to the pastor. Then any group, even less equipped, will be overseen by him.
I think this satisfies being submissive to him and allows for the needed growth.
Thanks for all the responses!
For those in here viewing or commenting... Is this type of bible reading and prayer something, to the contrary of this situation, something that would actually be encouraged and delight the church/leaders?
Just my opinion but how I'd love for church leaders to get up and implore church members to continue on in such activities.
For those in here viewing or commenting... Is this type of bible reading and prayer something, to the contrary of this situation, something that would actually be encouraged and delight the church/leaders?
Just my opinion but how I'd love for church leaders to get up and implore church members to continue on in such activities.
The pastor that i listen to does encourage His listeners to get in the Word and study, and has stated that we need a faith buddy (or more than one) because as the Body of Christ we are supposed to encourage each other in our faith and with the Word of God and to exhort each other with the Word of God. It sometimes can be easy to get sidetracked or blindsided by the devil. So when we encourage each other and study together, it strengthens our faith in God and what He is doing.
If a friend is struggling in their walk...we can help their faith be strengthened just by sharing what we are learning through the truth of the Word.
Blessings
Yes, it should delight any leader who has his head on straight and doesn't have pride and control issues. That's how the Church works!
Im a bit puzzled..are your bible study companions doing this apart from thee church or are you open to anyone in the church to join in from your local congregation...?
Eg. Do you announce this bible study in your church bulletin...if you have one, or is it just totally separate from church and you just decided to do it. Are there any other bible study gatherings your church has..like small home groups. It may be your little group is clashing with others.I dont know.
It just sounds odd to me. A pastor would be encouraging and only stop it if he felt that maybe you were going after false teachings or something. Anyway if thats the case just listen to what your pastor has to say. If hes unreasonable or doesnt say why, then we can advise you..because otherwise it seems very controlling.
Eg. Do you announce this bible study in your church bulletin...if you have one, or is it just totally separate from church and you just decided to do it. Are there any other bible study gatherings your church has..like small home groups. It may be your little group is clashing with others.I dont know.
It just sounds odd to me. A pastor would be encouraging and only stop it if he felt that maybe you were going after false teachings or something. Anyway if thats the case just listen to what your pastor has to say. If hes unreasonable or doesnt say why, then we can advise you..because otherwise it seems very controlling.
This is just close friends 4-5 people catching up instead of going to a movie/football etc at someone's house. Not a planned frequency, just when we are keen to read the Bible. It doesn't clash with other groups.
We have Life Groups once a month. But these are more casual events most of the time. Sometimes we do a small study first, but most often just casual. I'm part of this. This is on a Sunday and nothing me or my friends do in our private time clashes with this.
The reason my pastor gave me is that if any small group of any type catches up without coming under church accountability it is dangerous and encourages others to do the same which is dangerous. So the don't even want close friends who have been in the faith for years to meet ad hoc and read the Bible or pray. The pastor says they are not trying to be domineering but protective which is their role. I think they've been burnt in the past (but that's always going to happen somewhere with someone).
It leaves me in a tough position.
What is funny is that if we meet casually and then "happen to talk about God" they say its ok. But we can't "arrange a time to talk about God."
We are allowed to close any night in prayer but we can't "pray for each other" or pray for any more than 5 mins or so or it becomes a "prayer meeting". It's so bizarre.
So essentially if I send messages to people saying "let's hang out" and then we talk about God it's ok. But I shouldn't go in with the "intention" of talking about God. Even though 90% of what we talk about any time we see each other anywhere is God.
My guess is that they, the pastor and leadership, see this as possibly leading to a church split, where clicks get together, bad mouth the pastor, decide to try to force change or leave to form their own church.
I'm not saying this is what your group is doing. Just that this may be the pastor's fear.
I have lived through a church split as a child, about 9 years old. The pastor was voted out, 30 % of the church left and formed a new church with this pastor. Extended families were even split as to which church they belonged to. My father had brothers who stayed with the original church, and grown daughters and cousins who went with the new one. We ended up going to both, one Sunday morning, the other Sunday night.
So their concern is real, but also possibly self-serving.
I'm not saying this is what your group is doing. Just that this may be the pastor's fear.
I have lived through a church split as a child, about 9 years old. The pastor was voted out, 30 % of the church left and formed a new church with this pastor. Extended families were even split as to which church they belonged to. My father had brothers who stayed with the original church, and grown daughters and cousins who went with the new one. We ended up going to both, one Sunday morning, the other Sunday night.
So their concern is real, but also possibly self-serving.
I think you making mountain out of molehill really.
I think you pastor just concerned about small group forming without him knowing. just tell him or suggest you need small groups more often..like every fortnight or even once a week rather than just once a month.
Othertimes outside of this, its fine to talk about God..i mean ppl do this anyway just on the street and pray. I think really you overthinking this and also...you pastor too is maybe wary of church splitting maybe hes gone through something before but i dont think he should worry about it.
I think you pastor just concerned about small group forming without him knowing. just tell him or suggest you need small groups more often..like every fortnight or even once a week rather than just once a month.
Othertimes outside of this, its fine to talk about God..i mean ppl do this anyway just on the street and pray. I think really you overthinking this and also...you pastor too is maybe wary of church splitting maybe hes gone through something before but i dont think he should worry about it.
IMO: it has to be acknowledge that is VALID concern, there are mentions that Apostle Paul, Peter raised a similar concern on potential false teaching...
AND that is what I think to focus on: a VALID suggestion for that VALID concern
SINCE:
It is also a valid NEED, from the congregation to have a bible study….
Makes me wonder, there has to be those with gift of Teaching in your Church, that the Pastor can assigned... FORMALLY, assigned not only for the sake of Peace, but much of Order during discussion.
Just imagine a forum discussion without a Moderator : )
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What is the difference? FORMAL and INFORMAL.
as I see it: In FORMAL, the Church Pastor is primary responsible, accountable if there teaching that gone astray…
In INFORMAL, there is an exercise of Freedom, as well as obvious limitations area/scope of responsibility of the Pastor/Teacher..
I see it as being a Pastor taking ownership, responsibility… rather than "control issue" (a Christian knows God is always in control)… thus: since you asked him what he think of what your group is doing: he has to take a FORMAL view point (since he is aware now)..... but he has no trouble if you proceed INFORMALLY....
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since the OP click like on the post#53: note the red underline: part of their ministry: there is a FORMAL acceptance of accountability, responsibility of the Church.
The validity of a concern (even if there are reasons) does not validate the response.
I cannot see where a Christian of any sort, pastor, or lay leader or what ever would discourage reading and sharing the Wod together.
If he is trule concerned about false teaching, he it would profit the congregation more to counter it with strong teaching of his own.
One of the core beliefs of the denomination I usually fellowship with is the priesthood of the common believer. This means that although we need to be open to instruction, our relationship grows as the Holy Spirit leads. Pasters rightfully have oversight of the message of their local church, but should not become a barrier to individual and group study.