Yes, seems the Response is INVALID: STOP what you’re doing.
What is the next thing to do? give a VALID suggestion to address the VALID concern.
It can be discussed properly.
Pastor doesn't want members praying or reading bible together
- Thread starter pavilion103
- Start date
What is the next thing to do? give a VALID suggestion to address the VALID concern.
It can be discussed properly.
Pavilion seems to be going about this well. Taking things seriously is good. Soliciting advice from other believers is good. Talking it over with the pastor is good.
We have only sketchy information as to the pastor's motivation and of what other leaders of that congregation say.
I can think is several reasons for the pastor's stance, but I think he may not be handling it well. It may be good to discuss this with the lay leadership ( e.g. deacon or other spiritual staff ).
A believer needs to find a reasonable path between finding a church that does not challenge him, and one that tries to be so strictly in control that no one can read God's word with other believers and let the Holy Spirit speak as He will.
If the church you are at is more concerned with controlling its message than with encouraging study of God's Word, than I would advise finding a more nurturing congregation.
This is hard for me to write because I have great respect for pastors in general, and find most of them to be of great encouragement.
We have only sketchy information as to the pastor's motivation and of what other leaders of that congregation say.
I can think is several reasons for the pastor's stance, but I think he may not be handling it well. It may be good to discuss this with the lay leadership ( e.g. deacon or other spiritual staff ).
A believer needs to find a reasonable path between finding a church that does not challenge him, and one that tries to be so strictly in control that no one can read God's word with other believers and let the Holy Spirit speak as He will.
If the church you are at is more concerned with controlling its message than with encouraging study of God's Word, than I would advise finding a more nurturing congregation.
This is hard for me to write because I have great respect for pastors in general, and find most of them to be of great encouragement.
I respect the responses in this thread. Thanks.
I do believe that my pastor is a wise and Godly
man. I've had many discussions with him, open door policy in a church of 400 or so. I've often come out of chats transformed and more aligned with the Word and have submitted to a number of things which I didn't agree with.
The issue for me was mentioned in one of the posts. Something along the lines of "more concerned with controlling the message than encouraging study of the Word of God"
I generally wonder if a lot of Pastors (and believers) "get it" in this western society. The Word of God is to be the core of our life. Reading and praying with believers any time any where is an amazing thing. Its no wonder that Christianity is so weak in general in this society. The Word doesn't saturate the lives and conversations of most professing believers.
I appreciate my pastor. This is why I take the time to write this. I also appreciate the posts of the poster urging a valid concern and caution. I don't want to dismiss all views. The reason I am so persistent in this issue is because I believe in freedom of study of the Word of God. If the issue was "what curriculum do we use on a Wednesday night" or "how do we structure services" then it's different. I back the pastor 100% even if I strongly disagree. It is his area of authority.
I've tried to work out alternatives but I've been told that any study MUST come under a Life Group. This is once a month on a Sunday and designed with the number 1 purpose of fellowship and getting to know believers in the churxh.
So:
1. There is no Bible study often. If there is it is shallow and brief.
2. Group members are assigned. Which is good to be with different people too, I love that, but I want to pray and read with my BEST FRIENDS ALSO. Brothers in Christ.
I asked the pastor to authorize me but they said they couldn't because it had to come under the "Life Group". They said it has nothing to do with me but the structure.
Frustrating. Just as a side note. I was DUX of my Bible College last year and was recently in a group discussion (formal), where the leader had to defer questions to me because they couldn't answer anything other than the simple ones that they had answers too.
Just a bit more background there....
I do believe that my pastor is a wise and Godly
man. I've had many discussions with him, open door policy in a church of 400 or so. I've often come out of chats transformed and more aligned with the Word and have submitted to a number of things which I didn't agree with.
The issue for me was mentioned in one of the posts. Something along the lines of "more concerned with controlling the message than encouraging study of the Word of God"
I generally wonder if a lot of Pastors (and believers) "get it" in this western society. The Word of God is to be the core of our life. Reading and praying with believers any time any where is an amazing thing. Its no wonder that Christianity is so weak in general in this society. The Word doesn't saturate the lives and conversations of most professing believers.
I appreciate my pastor. This is why I take the time to write this. I also appreciate the posts of the poster urging a valid concern and caution. I don't want to dismiss all views. The reason I am so persistent in this issue is because I believe in freedom of study of the Word of God. If the issue was "what curriculum do we use on a Wednesday night" or "how do we structure services" then it's different. I back the pastor 100% even if I strongly disagree. It is his area of authority.
I've tried to work out alternatives but I've been told that any study MUST come under a Life Group. This is once a month on a Sunday and designed with the number 1 purpose of fellowship and getting to know believers in the churxh.
So:
1. There is no Bible study often. If there is it is shallow and brief.
2. Group members are assigned. Which is good to be with different people too, I love that, but I want to pray and read with my BEST FRIENDS ALSO. Brothers in Christ.
I asked the pastor to authorize me but they said they couldn't because it had to come under the "Life Group". They said it has nothing to do with me but the structure.
Frustrating. Just as a side note. I was DUX of my Bible College last year and was recently in a group discussion (formal), where the leader had to defer questions to me because they couldn't answer anything other than the simple ones that they had answers too.
Just a bit more background there....
Can I ask what denom if any you belong to? Or identify with.
Some are more strict than others.
For example, I got to a baptist church, and there are groups meeting for bible study and fellowship practically every day of the week. It would be very odd just to have something once a month. Most churches tend to have small groups fortnightly. Is this something you can suggest? These are hosted in peoples homes, or at church or even at the mall. So its not an issue of it clashing anywhere or having to find room for it.
Some are more strict than others.
For example, I got to a baptist church, and there are groups meeting for bible study and fellowship practically every day of the week. It would be very odd just to have something once a month. Most churches tend to have small groups fortnightly. Is this something you can suggest? These are hosted in peoples homes, or at church or even at the mall. So its not an issue of it clashing anywhere or having to find room for it.
Pentecostal
I, like you, think your pastor's heart is probably in the right place. He doesn't want destructive teaching to spread, and that is a valid concern. However, limiting Biblical discussion to a weekly assembly, if we simply observe assemblies around us, doesn't really seem to have any effect on stopping destructive teaching. I wonder if your pastor has considered that he may actually be doing more harm than good, as good as his intentions may be.
Here's how my church is currently modeled:
1. The most important aspect of church is the work we do in our local neighborhoods. Being ambassadors for Christ 24/7 is being the church. Ideally, we shouldn't have people "in ministry" who do this on our behalf -- we are each to be the hands and feet of Christ in the place where He's put us. This work is what we should think of when we think of "church."
2. We meet in small groups once a week for prayer/study/reflection/encouragement/support/confession/discipleship, and each group will look different according to the specific needs of that group. These groups are safe places to be honest and ask the tough questions. These groups are also where you would take people you meet who are interested in Christ, or asking questions. These groups each do need mature Christians for complicated situations that may arise, but they don't need the pastor right there, and they many of them won't even really need an official leader, as responsibilities can be shared easily.
3. The last and least important (but not irrelevant) part of the organisation is the weekly full assembly. This is intended for believers only. People who aren't yet Christians are welcome, but it's encouraged for them to attend a small group so they can ask the questions they need to ask in a less intimidating environment, and develop closer relationships. The purpose of this assembly is simply to celebrate being the church together. There is a sermon, but it's understood that the most significant learning happens in the small groups. This assembly is one of the ways to support accountability throughout the groups -- we can talk to other groups about what they've been doing and discussing throughout the week. We don't think of this meeting as "church" -- we think of it as the church assembling.
When the pastor announced a few years ago that we would be shifting our thinking this way, a lot of people left the church, because they didn't want to be held accountable for doing anything. They just wanted to come to a church building once a week, give some money to a ministry, believe whatever a pastor told them to believe, and feel like all their obligations were met.
I do not suggest that this is the perfect model that will work with every church. I simply observe that this shift in thinking was what was necessary in my church for people to understand what it means to be a disciple of Christ.
True.
?
Though we ought to accept legitimate and justified authorities, the Bible also tells us to be bold and have courage.
Acts 19:7-9 NRSV altogether there were about twelve of them. He entered the synagogue and for three months spoke out boldly, and argued persuasively about the kingdom of God. When some stubbornly refused to believe and spoke evil of the Way before the congregation, he left them, taking the disciples with him, and argued daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.
1 Corinthians 16:13-14 NRSV Keep alert, stand firm in your faith, be courageous, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.
1 Corinthians 16:13-14 NRSV Keep alert, stand firm in your faith, be courageous, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.
By engaging in fellowship you are following the Word.
Matthew 18:20 NRSV For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them.”
Do not be afraid to stand up for what is right, but do so with poise and grace.
1 Peter 3:13-16 NRSV Now who will harm you if you are eager to do what is good? But even if you do suffer for doing what is right, you are blessed. Do not fear what they fear, and do not be intimidated, but in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and reverence. Keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who abuse you for your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame.
You are doing the right thing studying the Word together. The Word is our weapon against the principalities and forces of darkness that are not of flesh. This is a war of the spiritual. Weapons get more powerful when you practice using them.
I really like that
Well I encourage you to talk to your pastor on this issue and bring with you two or more other believers as well, so its not just you wanting more fellowship and study time.
Personally I dont think once a month is enough esp for new believers...I was once part of a pentecostal type church that did lifegroups they had every fortnight, sometimes they had it every week. They chose the leaders of these groups, and the leaders did have to submit to the pastor(s) just so they had a bit of oversight, but it was held in peoples homes not the church building. So there were many dotted around the region. You could invite anyone, they didnt have to even go to this church.
I am not sure exactly what the issue is since you dont seem so clear on what, if any false teaching your pastor is afraid of. Is there a prescribed study that you do in the lifegroup? I have been to some groups where they are following a book that is actually not the bible but a whole kimd of curriculum based on the bible. Or some want to listen to a certain preacher. I actually dont want to learn the bible second hand like that...but some groups do.
Some groups just read the bible and let God teach through his Word, no specific plan is followed. There is no leader as such its just gathering together...actually my ladies bible study we all take turns facilitating. So we all let the holy spirit teach us, we dont lord over each other. Someone might have studied bible at college and someone might just have not read the whole thing yet. But we are continually finding new things in the Bible.
Id only worry if, someone got in their head to teach a new 'ism' and had an agenda by wanting to be a teacher. Pastors have to be on guard that wolves dont devour the flock.
Personally I dont think once a month is enough esp for new believers...I was once part of a pentecostal type church that did lifegroups they had every fortnight, sometimes they had it every week. They chose the leaders of these groups, and the leaders did have to submit to the pastor(s) just so they had a bit of oversight, but it was held in peoples homes not the church building. So there were many dotted around the region. You could invite anyone, they didnt have to even go to this church.
I am not sure exactly what the issue is since you dont seem so clear on what, if any false teaching your pastor is afraid of. Is there a prescribed study that you do in the lifegroup? I have been to some groups where they are following a book that is actually not the bible but a whole kimd of curriculum based on the bible. Or some want to listen to a certain preacher. I actually dont want to learn the bible second hand like that...but some groups do.
Some groups just read the bible and let God teach through his Word, no specific plan is followed. There is no leader as such its just gathering together...actually my ladies bible study we all take turns facilitating. So we all let the holy spirit teach us, we dont lord over each other. Someone might have studied bible at college and someone might just have not read the whole thing yet. But we are continually finding new things in the Bible.
Id only worry if, someone got in their head to teach a new 'ism' and had an agenda by wanting to be a teacher. Pastors have to be on guard that wolves dont devour the flock.
That describes my experience of studying the scripture, although none of us have been to Bible college, and we don't have separate women's or children's studies. We all come together on the Lord's day, and on Wednesdays and Thursdays each week in various rooms locally. We read through a book of the Bible, or if anyone has a particular exercise to read certain scriptures, we follow that up. Because the Holy Spirit should be free, we don't have a chairman or leader, we depend on the Spirit to lead the inquiry in the way in which He chooses.
I've almost resolved the issue in my mind completely. I've spoken to a couple of pastors at various places who I respect. The general feedback is that there isn't a restriction on meeting and reading the Bible and praying and that the situation has genuine concerns because dangerous things have spread from this stuff, however saying no one can do it "smacks of control". The command isn't supported by any scripture on the matter and therefore God is the higher authority who I come under here. Also that the church leader's sphere of authority does not include this private time.
Pretty much my exact thinking also.
Does anyone have any scriptures about people praying together outside of church or reading the word? Not that I need it but further support when I meet with my pastor one final time.
In regards to the reading of the Bible there was a great verse about the Holy Spirit being the teacher. I've got it written down. I'll have to post it if it hasn't already been done.
Pretty much my exact thinking also.
Does anyone have any scriptures about people praying together outside of church or reading the word? Not that I need it but further support when I meet with my pastor one final time.
In regards to the reading of the Bible there was a great verse about the Holy Spirit being the teacher. I've got it written down. I'll have to post it if it hasn't already been done.
1 John 2:27
But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him
But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him
Church is wherever two or three are gathered in His name..so if anyone was outside of church theyd just be praying by themselves.
In book of acts Bereans searched the scriptures daily to see if things were so. They might not have all been christians yet, but they looked up things in scripture for themselves.
In book of acts Bereans searched the scriptures daily to see if things were so. They might not have all been christians yet, but they looked up things in scripture for themselves.
Where do people get that idea? It isn't really biblical. The verse you refer to (and too many others) to represent what "church" is is being contextually stretched from how Jesus is present as we pray together, to what the assembly of meeting really is about. FYI, Too many people abuse this small verse to excuse their neglect of the local body.
Matthew 18:19-20
“I also tell you this: If two of you agree here on earth concerning anything you ask, my Father in heaven will do it for you. 20 For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them.”
I would question your pastor on it more. the bible teaches to do just what you are doing and in fact that is exactly what you do in church.
lolHere is another twist - rofl
Just take your group and go camp out over at the pastors house when you meet and study.
LOL see how that goes.....
awesome advice
On the one hand you do have the very serious danger of false teaching being SOWN in a biblical study .The devil loves religious debates and bible studies .
See the garden of eden.
Then on the other you have pastors who think they need to or can control everything.
Dont then jump to conclusions , Even in these forums false teaching is often slipped in and error is sown.
The question then is what is the condition of the heart in them.
in Christ
gerald