Pauls thorn. The facts

Sep 3, 2009
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I don't think that God puts sickness on us, He does allow it to happen. We live in a fallen world still. A world filled with death and sickness. Christians get sick and some get healed, and others for whatever reason do not.

I gave you the example of my wife. She has been prayed for, over, hands laid on, anointed with oil. Yet, she still has MS and it continues to worsen. You may not believe that God sometimes says My grace is sufficient for you, but I do. I also believe that she will be healed, as I said either while she is alive or when she goes to be with the Lord.

If it happens when she goes to be with the Lord, then God didn't lie. He still healed her completely.

I do have a question for you.

Why did Paul say to Timothy for him to take some wine for his stomach issues if all he had to do was go to an elder to be healed? Surely, Timothy, who was like as son to Paul, had prayed and been prayed for and hands laid on for healing.
I hear you brother and would like to speak the Scriptures to you. NOT what I think or hope is going on but the Word of God.

For some reason there is an US against THEM attitude in the body of Christ today. IF someone does not accept what someone else has an opinion on......O wow, they are somehow less spiritual or Christ like. You see, some people have a personal agenda and will twist any and all Scriptures to make the fit into that agenda. That is called RATIONALIZATION. Some also call it CAFATERIA Christianity. A little of this and a little of that and bingo, we have a doctrine on healing or faith or whatever our agenda is.

Now as for Paul telling Timothy to drink wine. FIRST we need Scriptural context so as to for a basis of understanding.

1 Peter 2:24..............
“… by His stripes we are healed”.

Peter’s quote of Isaiah 53:5 is noted by some as proof that all Christians are to be healed of all illnesses. This is called Atonement Healing.
In context neither Isaiah or Peter is speaking of bodily illness. The context in which the statement appears clearly defines the term. The Greek word for “healed” used here is used in various ways in Scripture. In Luke 4:18 it refers to relieving of heartaches, in Hebrews 12:13 to correcting ones conduct, and in Matthew 13:15 it means to bring about ones salvation.

The Hebrew word for “healed” used by Isaiah (NAPHA) can be used for physical or spiritual healing. The context clearly reveals the reference is to spiritual healing. Of what does Isaiah say we are healed —- transgressions and iniquities. Peter makes it clear that it is “our sins” of which we are spiritually healed.

Now that is NOT what I said but it is what the Scriptures clearly say.

This is not to deny or diminish the reality that physical healing can come from the Lord. The Lord God is RAPHA, the God who heals. Jesus was called the Great Physician. However, He does not heal all. I am sure that no one on this earth wants to see their loved one heals more than you do my brother. I am sure that no one has MORE faith than you do that God can and does heal.

Scripturally speaking, God does not always heal he sick.

Paul had an ailment (II Cor 12:7-10). Most all Bible scholars believe that Paul's thorn was his bad eye sight. Timothy had a stomach disorder (I Tim 5:23). Paul instructed him to take a little wine for his stomach. Amoeba in the water caused stomach problems and it is also suggested that Timothy may of had an ulcer.. The wine and water mixture noted in rabbinical writings was one part wine and twenty parts water. If healing were in the atonement why didn’t Paul instruct him to claim his healing instead and giving medical advice and why did God not hal Paul of his vision problem?

Trophimus and Epaphroditus were very sick (II Tim 4:20 & Phi. 2: 26, 27). Nothing in Scripture indicates these conditions resulted from them persons being out of fellowship. Illness does not indicate a person is out of God’s will.

Paul spoke of an illness he had (Galatians 4:13-15) in addition to his thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:7-9).

If healing is in the atonement why didn’t James instruct the saints to claim it instead of anointing with oil and praying?

II Corinthians 4: 7 – 18 clearly teaches we will be susceptible to suffering and sickness.

Ecclesiastes 12: 1- 7 colorfully and graphically describes the ailments and limitations of the body that naturally consequent from aging.

The idea that all Christians can be healed by rebuking sickness and/or claiming atonement healing is erroneous and leads to confusion and despair. It is contrary to the teaching of Scripture and the experience of most all Bible characters.

There is healing in the atonement, that you can be sure of. There is also assurance of resurrection in the atonement. The cross is the basis for all blessings granted believers. This does not mean all benefits can be obtained on demand. If it did believers would have the authority to claim their resurrection at a certain time just before death. All blessings promised believers will be received. That of the resurrection will only be at the time of the rapture. Like the resurrection total healing will not be received until the end of the age.

The “name it and claim it” school of theology has led many to despair and/or disillusionment. Advocates assert what you confess you profess. Talk sickness and you will get sick. Talk healing and health and you will get well. All persons should maintain a positive attitude. Believers have every reason to be optimistic. Our thoughts do not create reality however. Only God can do that.

Those who do not believe in atonement healing, the health syndrome, are said to be ungodly, having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. These are terms used in Scripture for the lost. Thus, they are saying those who do not accept their position are not Christians. Carried to its logical conclusion this means every person who becomes ill is lost. That is an egregious doctrinal error and that is what I am seeing here recently.

I want you to be assured that God has a plan and He has already healed your wife spiritually and no matter what comes, she is in the palm of God's hand my brother!!!!!
 
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I have been told not to speak on healing in here by PM. So everyone else can except me? Is that fair?. No so I will post a teaching on healing that will leave everyone in no doubt about healing. If it is deleted email me at [email protected]. And I will give you a full copy. It is one of the most import reads you will ever see.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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I cant speak on healing any more sorry bro. I can speak on skype if you like.
But isn't this present thread simply an attempt go around what the other two were shut down for??????

You by your own words you have been in the position you are now for the past 2 years. I have on the other hand been doing this for 50 years.
My experience and observations during that time have show me that believers who have relied on their faith in atonement healing and are not healed often lose faith all together. They feel God has not kept His promise. Persons having repented, believed, prayed, and declared Satan bound are disillusioned if God doesn’t heal them. They never consider they misunderstood His word.

Some engage in introspection that results in self-condemnation. Dismay and disillusion result in spiritual defeat. I cannot tell you how many parents of children I have sat with and cried with because God did not heal their baby. To this day, many of those people have walked away from God because of his fact......they had faith and believed God would heal their baby and He didn't.

What to do when we are sick???? Believers should do several things when ill. By all means pray. When we pray we ask God to do His part. Enlist others to pray if it is a serious illness. Seek proper medical treatment as soon as possible. When we do we are doing our part. Then relax in God’s grace and rely on His love. All that is expected by God has then been done. As a consequence God will act based on His love and wisdom. God heals based on these two factors.

The man with the withered hand who came to Christ is an example of healing in partnership (Mark 3). Jesus said to him, “Come here.” Jesus could have walked over to him and simply said, “Your arm is healed.” Instead He called for the man to act. Jesus further commanded, “Stretch out your hand.” In commanding the man He was calling on him to do his part: “You with the withered arm. You stretch out your hand.”
Divine operation often waits on human cooperation.

Let those he chooses to heal rejoice and let those not healed suffer for the glory of God not being offended by His sovereign decision. He loves both. His sufficiency can be revealed through both. Paul’s thorn in the flesh was not removed. It was a grievous means by which God showed His grace to be sufficient even in adversity.

Jesus said in John 11:4......
" sickness can be for the glory of God”.

I am saying as clearly as I can that God still heals. Sometimes it is directly; supernaturally. Often it is through human means and modern medical treatment. It is sometimes immediately and at other times gradually, but He does heal. For some it is the ultimate healing we call death.

Even that eventuates in the ultimate atonement healing spoken of in I Corinthians 15:51-55...........
"51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 55 “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”[c]

I would say to all of you whether you agree with what I just posted or not that we all Rejoice that even though He has not promised us perpetual health and life on this planet He has provided for us eternal life in His presence.

Happy Jesus birthday to all!!!!
 
Dec 16, 2014
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maybe you never read the OP. And they were shut down because you and the other guy were getting hot and botherd thats why i really didnt want you in this on. As you can see the thinly disguised accusations in you post already.
 
Sep 3, 2009
11,889
4,563
113
Florida
I have been told not to speak on healing in here by PM. So everyone else can except me? Is that fair?. No so I will post a teaching on healing that will leave everyone in no doubt about healing. If it is deleted email me at [email protected]. And I will give you a full copy. It is one of the most import reads you will ever see.
Maybe it is the WAY you presented yourself and your opinion my brother.

We are all believers and this should not have the appearance of a conflict because of differing understandings.
We are al on the winning side brother!

The moderators here believe in healing as much as YOU and I do but they correctly insist on a mode of operation that reflects our Christian attitude. So, if it were me, I would you to look introspectively and see if there is another way to approach what it is I am are trying to say.

Merry Christmas!
 
Dec 16, 2014
78
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Maybe it is the WAY you presented yourself and your opinion my brother.

We are all believers and this should not have the appearance of a conflict because of differing understandings.
We are al on the winning side brother!

The moderators here believe in healing as much as YOU and I do but they correctly insist on a mode of operation that reflects our Christian attitude. So, if it were me, I would you to look introspectively and see if there is another way to approach what it is I am are trying to say.

Merry Christmas!
No we dont believe the same nothing l;ike the same Your love is conditional. Your love for you own family is conditional. your love for Christ is conditional.
We have agreed on nothing that I seen. So no idea why you would think that.
 
Sep 3, 2009
11,889
4,563
113
Florida
maybe you never read the OP. And they were shut down because you and the other guy were getting hot and botherd thats why i really didnt want you in this on. As you can see the thinly disguised accusations in you post already.
And this is exactly the kind of comments that I am talking about. I am not hot or bothered in any way whatsoever. I simply and my brother who posted just do not agree with you my friend. No more no less. Brother, you are talking like we are enemies when we are in fact on the same side.

You have already said you had to leave your church and other Christian web sites. Do you really think that I am he reason for your problems.
 
Dec 16, 2014
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No your taking it that way I dont. You are looking at the words not my heart. :) I gave you testimoys of people that were healed and you ignored thenm and never praised God. When any one else came in and said God healed me you were in there praising God :) You love is conditional.
\left my church becaue of the lies the preach. I did nt agree with them either. I listened ti the lies and thought they were true for 21 years now I know better, so I left. There were no fall outs.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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I hear you brother and would like to speak the Scriptures to you. NOT what I think or hope is going on but the Word of God.

For some reason there is an US against THEM attitude in the body of Christ today. IF someone does not accept what someone else has an opinion on......O wow, they are somehow less spiritual or Christ like. You see, some people have a personal agenda and will twist any and all Scriptures to make the fit into that agenda. That is called RATIONALIZATION. Some also call it CAFATERIA Christianity. A little of this and a little of that and bingo, we have a doctrine on healing or faith or whatever our agenda is.

Now as for Paul telling Timothy to drink wine. FIRST we need Scriptural context so as to for a basis of understanding.

1 Peter 2:24..............
“… by His stripes we are healed”.

Peter’s quote of Isaiah 53:5 is noted by some as proof that all Christians are to be healed of all illnesses. This is called Atonement Healing.
In context neither Isaiah or Peter is speaking of bodily illness. The context in which the statement appears clearly defines the term. The Greek word for “healed” used here is used in various ways in Scripture. In Luke 4:18 it refers to relieving of heartaches, in Hebrews 12:13 to correcting ones conduct, and in Matthew 13:15 it means to bring about ones salvation.

The Hebrew word for “healed” used by Isaiah (NAPHA) can be used for physical or spiritual healing. The context clearly reveals the reference is to spiritual healing. Of what does Isaiah say we are healed —- transgressions and iniquities. Peter makes it clear that it is “our sins” of which we are spiritually healed.

Now that is NOT what I said but it is what the Scriptures clearly say.

This is not to deny or diminish the reality that physical healing can come from the Lord. The Lord God is RAPHA, the God who heals. Jesus was called the Great Physician. However, He does not heal all. I am sure that no one on this earth wants to see their loved one heals more than you do my brother. I am sure that no one has MORE faith than you do that God can and does heal.

Scripturally speaking, God does not always heal he sick.

Paul had an ailment (II Cor 12:7-10). Most all Bible scholars believe that Paul's thorn was his bad eye sight. Timothy had a stomach disorder (I Tim 5:23). Paul instructed him to take a little wine for his stomach. Amoeba in the water caused stomach problems and it is also suggested that Timothy may of had an ulcer.. The wine and water mixture noted in rabbinical writings was one part wine and twenty parts water. If healing were in the atonement why didn’t Paul instruct him to claim his healing instead and giving medical advice and why did God not hal Paul of his vision problem?

Trophimus and Epaphroditus were very sick (II Tim 4:20 & Phi. 2: 26, 27). Nothing in Scripture indicates these conditions resulted from them persons being out of fellowship. Illness does not indicate a person is out of God’s will.

Paul spoke of an illness he had (Galatians 4:13-15) in addition to his thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:7-9).

If healing is in the atonement why didn’t James instruct the saints to claim it instead of anointing with oil and praying?

II Corinthians 4: 7 – 18 clearly teaches we will be susceptible to suffering and sickness.

Ecclesiastes 12: 1- 7 colorfully and graphically describes the ailments and limitations of the body that naturally consequent from aging.

The idea that all Christians can be healed by rebuking sickness and/or claiming atonement healing is erroneous and leads to confusion and despair. It is contrary to the teaching of Scripture and the experience of most all Bible characters.

There is healing in the atonement, that you can be sure of. There is also assurance of resurrection in the atonement. The cross is the basis for all blessings granted believers. This does not mean all benefits can be obtained on demand. If it did believers would have the authority to claim their resurrection at a certain time just before death. All blessings promised believers will be received. That of the resurrection will only be at the time of the rapture. Like the resurrection total healing will not be received until the end of the age.

The “name it and claim it” school of theology has led many to despair and/or disillusionment. Advocates assert what you confess you profess. Talk sickness and you will get sick. Talk healing and health and you will get well. All persons should maintain a positive attitude. Believers have every reason to be optimistic. Our thoughts do not create reality however. Only God can do that.

Those who do not believe in atonement healing, the health syndrome, are said to be ungodly, having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. These are terms used in Scripture for the lost. Thus, they are saying those who do not accept their position are not Christians. Carried to its logical conclusion this means every person who becomes ill is lost. That is an egregious doctrinal error and that is what I am seeing here recently.

I want you to be assured that God has a plan and He has already healed your wife spiritually and no matter what comes, she is in the palm of God's hand my brother!!!!!

Thank you and what you have said fleshes out completely my beliefs.
 
Jun 7, 2013
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maybe you never read the OP. And they were shut down because you and the other guy were getting hot and botherd thats why i really didnt want you in this on. As you can see the thinly disguised accusations in you post already.
The only one that I was able to see getting hot and bothered by their words was you actually and your post below shows that pretty easily.

"No we dont believe the same nothing l;ike the same Your love is conditional. Your love for you own family is conditional. your love for Christ is conditional."

You do not know that our love for anyone is conditional. I certainly know that my love for my wife is not conditional, if it were I would have been long gone rather than stay with her and live with multiple sclerosis through her. MS is a horrible disease. It can make a person extremely moody (may even mimic bi-polar disorder at times), if they suffer a relapse of the illness, many times they are put on high doses of steroids to stop the relapse which also can cause moodiness. There are stretches of days where you really cannot leave the house because the person is unable to get out of bed, and during those stretches of time, the caregiver is called on to at the very least be a shoulder to lean on to go to the bathroom and at worst you have to carry someone who is essentially dead weight to the bathroom, or to their commode and back to their bed. If that person cannot hold their bowels or bladder, then you have to clean up their mess. There is alot of miscommunication because the person can have cognitive impairments which makes it so that what they think they are saying in their mind isn't what they actually say.

I have dealt with all that and more in the five years that I have known my wife.

So do not propose to tell me that my love is conditional for anyone, most of all for my wife.
 

By Faith

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And this is exactly the kind of comments that I am talking about. I am not hot or bothered in any way whatsoever. I simply and my brother who posted just do not agree with you my friend. No more no less. Brother, you are talking like we are enemies when we are in fact on the same side.

You have already said you had to leave your church and other Christian web sites. Do you really think that I am he reason for your problems.
It's not "US" against "Yous guyz" All on the same team here. I won't bother address all you brought up. You believe something, then folks bring a whole list of things as to why it can't be. Job, trophy left sick, Jacob's hip, God killed David's baby with sickness, so on.............. We could go back and forth forever, but all these things need examained. I can't believe one thing if there is just one couter scripture that says different. All have to be in line.

The whole issues boils down to............. Is it God's will to heal.

The answer would be yes, but where faith comes in, faith does not believe God can and at times does. FAith believes God will.

There is not a person on this earth that believed God, and God failed or it ended badly. Death is not the final healing, nobody needs healed after they died physically. Death can't hold us, it has no sting.

If I get sick, is it God's will to heal me? If I don't settle his will on something, then I am in trouble.

Not one time have I seen anyone go down to get saved, and the Pastor say, "Lord, if it be thy will, let this person accept Jesus, if Not Lord. Please provide Ice water in Hell for them.

Pastors do alter call and it's a done deal with them. No signs, nothing, but they believe so much the person got saved they tell others with no physical evidence at all.

We know God's will for eternal life. We act on it without thinking.

If we did the same with everything else God said, then Miracles happen. If we can be so convinced.

When I need something from God. I don't go to the scriptures that look as if I am not getting it. Instead of meditating on Paul left Trophy sick, I meditate on the women that grabbed Jesus robe and was healed.

a few months ago I lost my trucking Job. My fault, I did not listen to the Holy Spirit and follow through with something, and reasoned it out instead. I teach against that, but did it anyway.

Caused rent and power to be two months past due. Eviction notice and Power going to be shut off. I have been turned down by 15 other trucking companies because of the new insurance rules. They want everyone to have driven for at least the past 3 years and I just got my CDL back after a 8 year break from trucking.

The wife asking what can we do? Not my first rodeo though, God never fails, not one time.

See, this is where what I do, and what others do make all the difference in the outcomes of things. I know it's God's will to supply all my needs, no question. Every bill paid in full, with no idea of where the money is going to come from.

I don't ask people for money, or even hint. Making man your source is a snare. I asked God, He is not hard of hearing.

So now it's on. I know the devil will try to steal the Word, then if that does not work, He will try to get me offended at God, saying what God said is not true because the bills are not paid. If that don't work, then the devil will try to get me destracted off the word to chase after my own things (Lust of other things entering in)

I already know how it works, and the enemy can't get around the Word of God.

So, the first thing the enemy wants me to do is look at our door to see if the final evection notice has shown up to be out. Then look out the window constantly to see if the power truck is pulling up to shut the lights off.

Putting actions and speaking against what God said, "I will supply your needs" is all it takes. You pick one side (Satans) or you pick and believe what God said.

I knew better than to check the door or look outside. I said nice try devil, but my needs are already met according to the Word of God.

Next, the devil wants to make it so I can't sleep and think about all that is due.

Already knew it was coming. (Psa 127:2)

The wife had to fight the same thoughts I had, we compared notes.......... Same stupid devil. Everything that I cast down, she had to.

Now we owed about 3,000 dollars. Not a lot of money for some folk, but when you have a hard time finding another Job and 5 months pass, then things add up once all your savings is spent. I don't want a trucking Job that never gets me home for church, Chruch is first.

So, I take my stand, the bills are already paid, no problem. I don't see it, I asked God for Wisdom on what to do, and He said to me nothing. So, we just stand, not moving, call it done according to the Word.

Last week a women called my wife and wanted to take her shopping. So she went, someone from the church. After they were done she handed my wife a envelope.

The women said I went to all the places the Lord told me to go and those are the reciepts. We never said a word to her about anything, or even hinted. We don't even see this women much but at church.

She paid rent up for 3 months caught up what was behind, paid power up, paid internet, and paid for my wife's phone so I can get a job call. Then she handed my wife 100.00 for things we needed.

This week 3 people brought us tons of food. Have it sitting on the floors as there is no place to put it all.

This is just one Miracle out of numbers I can't count. I live by what I believe, and not one time has God never came through. Not once.

tribualtion, works your patience, patience, experience, and experice Hope. I have been through far worse situations, this situation was easy.

Like David, who God gave the Lion and bear into his hands. What is a tall man named Goliath got on a Lion or a Bear?

If God can so easy supply a need if you believe, then Healing is not hard for him either.

We are always the problem, God is never the reason why we are not healed. It's not ever God's fault. The Pride of men do not want to take spiritual responsibility and play the blame game.

I want better than that for my Brothers and Sisters. What God has done for me, He will do for anyone else. He is no respecter of persons, but is a respecter of "REAL" faith. Without faith, we can't even please him.

Be blessed Major.
 
Dec 16, 2014
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If your wife had an affair what would you say to her. ? Our love is condictional. That whiether you like it or not is a fact.
You are no different from the rest of us I am telling you what God say. It doesnt matter in here wiether I quote scriptur e or not Most are incapable of recognising scripture any way .
 
Jun 7, 2013
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If your wife had an affair what would you say to her. ? Our love is condictional. That whiether you like it or not is a fact.
Your so sure of yourself. The thing is you are very wrong.

I would forgive her and love her. That is a fact, yours is opinion and nothing more.
 
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You are no different from the rest of us I am telling you what God say. It doesnt matter in here wiether I quote scriptur e or not Most are incapable of recognising scripture any way .
Do you really think that is true????

Most of us are incapable of recognizing Scripture?????

I find that rather arrogant and insulting my friend. I think you can do better than that.
 

By Faith

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They are what scripture says they are willfully ignorant.
http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/the-7-questions-of-divine-healing.41023/
If the dont except this they wont except anything Shake the dust off.
unbelief simply says God is not going to help me. He might, but He might not who knows.

Job was like that, He said what does it profit a man to serve God? We know it's God's will to heal, because God designed the body to heal. If the body can't heal with things we do, then a Doctor has things to help the body fight and heal.

Doctors heal nobody, they can only help the Body sustain itself until the body heals. They can repair things in the body so it can mend up.

So as long as a Doctor can do something to help the Body, or we can, the body will heal. God made it that way.

The issue people have though is with God. If the Doctors can't do anything, though the body is designed to heal, then suddenly it might not be God's will to heal anymore.

If the Doctors can help the body heal, then it must be God's will.

So, the same people that Claim God might not want them healed, are the same that continue to go to the Doctor to get out of the will of God and be well.

See what confusing spirit we are dealing with here?

I listened to a man explain that by his stripes we are healed is just spiritual, and his wife had 10 years of horrible headaches the doctors could do nothing for.

So, he preached a sermon that it's not always God's will to heal, and it was not God's will to heal his wife, but that she live by grace and suffer.

So, it was not God's will until they found a specialist in Champaign, IL that studied this rare condition and had a cure. Now suddenly it's God's will to heal her.

Why be disobedient to God and go get healed, when you said it's not his will?

So, when dealing with folks like Major and naomanos, proof in scripture does not work. They can't see it, or think clearly and logically.

Love does work though, and God's wisdom. We can't help everyone. I have seen my share of people dying that did not have to die. Some though will listen, and get a victory. I know, I still have many write me after they finally listened.

We are not trying to prove we are right, we are trying to find an entrance to help.
 
Sep 3, 2009
11,889
4,563
113
Florida
It's not "US" against "Yous guyz" All on the same team here. I won't bother address all you brought up. You believe something, then folks bring a whole list of things as to why it can't be. Job, trophy left sick, Jacob's hip, God killed David's baby with sickness, so on.............. We could go back and forth forever, but all these things need examained. I can't believe one thing if there is just one couter scripture that says different. All have to be in line.

The whole issues boils down to............. Is it God's will to heal.

The answer would be yes, but where faith comes in, faith does not believe God can and at times does. FAith believes God will.

There is not a person on this earth that believed God, and God failed or it ended badly. Death is not the final healing, nobody needs healed after they died physically. Death can't hold us, it has no sting.

If I get sick, is it God's will to heal me? If I don't settle his will on something, then I am in trouble.

Not one time have I seen anyone go down to get saved, and the Pastor say, "Lord, if it be thy will, let this person accept Jesus, if Not Lord. Please provide Ice water in Hell for them.

Pastors do alter call and it's a done deal with them. No signs, nothing, but they believe so much the person got saved they tell others with no physical evidence at all.

We know God's will for eternal life. We act on it without thinking.

If we did the same with everything else God said, then Miracles happen. If we can be so convinced.

When I need something from God. I don't go to the scriptures that look as if I am not getting it. Instead of meditating on Paul left Trophy sick, I meditate on the women that grabbed Jesus robe and was healed.

a few months ago I lost my trucking Job. My fault, I did not listen to the Holy Spirit and follow through with something, and reasoned it out instead. I teach against that, but did it anyway.

Caused rent and power to be two months past due. Eviction notice and Power going to be shut off. I have been turned down by 15 other trucking companies because of the new insurance rules. They want everyone to have driven for at least the past 3 years and I just got my CDL back after a 8 year break from trucking.

The wife asking what can we do? Not my first rodeo though, God never fails, not one time.

See, this is where what I do, and what others do make all the difference in the outcomes of things. I know it's God's will to supply all my needs, no question. Every bill paid in full, with no idea of where the money is going to come from.

I don't ask people for money, or even hint. Making man your source is a snare. I asked God, He is not hard of hearing.

So now it's on. I know the devil will try to steal the Word, then if that does not work, He will try to get me offended at God, saying what God said is not true because the bills are not paid. If that don't work, then the devil will try to get me destracted off the word to chase after my own things (Lust of other things entering in)

I already know how it works, and the enemy can't get around the Word of God.

So, the first thing the enemy wants me to do is look at our door to see if the final evection notice has shown up to be out. Then look out the window constantly to see if the power truck is pulling up to shut the lights off.

Putting actions and speaking against what God said, "I will supply your needs" is all it takes. You pick one side (Satans) or you pick and believe what God said.

I knew better than to check the door or look outside. I said nice try devil, but my needs are already met according to the Word of God.

Next, the devil wants to make it so I can't sleep and think about all that is due.

Already knew it was coming. (Psa 127:2)

The wife had to fight the same thoughts I had, we compared notes.......... Same stupid devil. Everything that I cast down, she had to.

Now we owed about 3,000 dollars. Not a lot of money for some folk, but when you have a hard time finding another Job and 5 months pass, then things add up once all your savings is spent. I don't want a trucking Job that never gets me home for church, Chruch is first.

So, I take my stand, the bills are already paid, no problem. I don't see it, I asked God for Wisdom on what to do, and He said to me nothing. So, we just stand, not moving, call it done according to the Word.

Last week a women called my wife and wanted to take her shopping. So she went, someone from the church. After they were done she handed my wife a envelope.

The women said I went to all the places the Lord told me to go and those are the reciepts. We never said a word to her about anything, or even hinted. We don't even see this women much but at church.

She paid rent up for 3 months caught up what was behind, paid power up, paid internet, and paid for my wife's phone so I can get a job call. Then she handed my wife 100.00 for things we needed.

This week 3 people brought us tons of food. Have it sitting on the floors as there is no place to put it all.

This is just one Miracle out of numbers I can't count. I live by what I believe, and not one time has God never came through. Not once.

tribualtion, works your patience, patience, experience, and experice Hope. I have been through far worse situations, this situation was easy.

Like David, who God gave the Lion and bear into his hands. What is a tall man named Goliath got on a Lion or a Bear?

If God can so easy supply a need if you believe, then Healing is not hard for him either.

We are always the problem, God is never the reason why we are not healed. It's not ever God's fault. The Pride of men do not want to take spiritual responsibility and play the blame game.

I want better than that for my Brothers and Sisters. What God has done for me, He will do for anyone else. He is no respecter of persons, but is a respecter of "REAL" faith. Without faith, we can't even please him.

Be blessed Major.
I am blessed beyond my wildest dreams my brother.

I would love to speak to your comment but the truth is that it is just too rambling from one thing to another for me to do so.

The one thing that you did say I could comprehend was......"The whole issues boils down to............. Is it God's will to heal."
"The answer would be yes".

I am glad you are so enthusiastic about what you believe. I am sorry to have to disagree with you on this again.

IMO, the First, thing to understand is that God does not always respond to our desires, and he frequently allows circumstances we wish He would not. Theologically we call this sovereignty. Inherent in our faith is the scriptural truth that God is in control. This includes the events he directs and the circumstances he allows. He has the power and responsibility to exercise his right over creation according to his will.

Psalms 50:1.........
"The Mighty One, God the Lord, speaks and summons the earth
from the rising of the sun to its setting".

Psalms 115:3.......
"Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases."

Yet God repeatedly chooses to veil the ways in which he exercises those rights. Hence our requests will not always coincide with God's response. Peter understood this as it applied to suffering.

1 Peter 4:19 confirms that............
"So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good".

Then secondly, we must address the assumption that God’s goodness and love require Him to heal everyone.
Illness, suffering, and pain are the result of our living in a cursed world—cursed because of our sin.

Genesis 3:16-19......
"To the woman he said, I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you. And to Adam he said, Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree
of which I commanded you, You shall not eat of it, cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

Romans 8:20-22 .............
"For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now."

God’s goodness and love moved Him to provide a Savior to redeem us from the curse as seen in 1 John 4:9-10, but our ultimate redemption will not be realized until God has made a final end of sin in the world. Until that time, we are still subject to physical death and physical pain and suffering.

Now just THINK for a moment............If God’s love required Him to heal every disease and infirmity, then no one would ever die—because "love" would maintain everyone in perfect health. The biblical definition of love is "a sacrificial seeking what is best for the loved one." What is best for us is not always physical wholeness. Paul the apostle prayed to have his "thorn in the flesh" removed, but God said, "No," because He wanted Paul to understand he didn’t need to be physically whole to experience the sustaining grace of God. Through the experience, Paul grew in humility and in the understanding of God’s mercy and power.

2 Corth. 12:7-10............
"So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

God bless you as you think on these Scriptures.
 
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Do you really think that is true????

Most of us are incapable of recognizing Scripture?????

I find that rather arrogant and insulting my friend. I think you can do better than that.
So do the pharises. So do religous people. By faith just explined it to you through scripture but is to rambly for ya. So yes i do believe you and all the others that are saying we believe God heals sometimes. Have no clue or desire to know scripture.
You are willfully ignorant. That is scripture. BUt you would not recognize it. SO I am arrogant, but only to the ignorant.