Personally Knowing Both Father And Son Is Required For Salvation!

#1
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven,

but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name,
cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you;
depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ ”

Doing the will of Father God
is of the utmost importance to make it into heaven!
There are many Scriptures about the importance of doing God's will.
And doing God's will includes various things.

It is God's will that we have a close personal relationship with Himself and Jesus!

Those whom He never knew in this way will be rejected/discarded
... even those who appeared to be so in-tune with the Lord
as to be used in the incredibly-powerful sign gifts!

This is just one of the "somewhat hidden" spiritual Truths in Scripture.
Truths such as the above must be revealed by the Spirit to a person.
Confirmation passages:

John 10:27-28
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.”


John 17:3
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God,
and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”


1 John 2:3-5
“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
He who says, ‘I know Him’, and does not keep His commandments,
is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word,
truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.”

Summary
The one "who does the will of My Father in heaven" (Matthew 7:21)
is the one who is willing to "keep His commandments" (1 John 2:4)
and he obviously is the one who is “known” by Jesus (Matthew 7:23).
 
#2
Everything you said is absolutely true. Many try to water down God_ making him this fluffy, loving, care bear-like deity... when the truth is, He cannot stand sin, or its presence. Even Paul described God as both kind and severe....

and I think when you're a christian long enough- you'll see God's stern side, which doesn't happen to be that popular.
 
#3
Everything you said is absolutely true. Many try to water down God_ making him this fluffy, loving care bear-like deity... when the truth is, He cannot stand sin, or its presence. Even Paul described God as both kind and severe....

and I think when you're a christian long enough- you'll see God's stern side, which doesn't happen to be that popular.
I think that it is erroneous to say that God has two sides or two faces. He is constant and unchanging, but has a covenantal love which is experienced as wrath or hate for someone who rebels against Him.
 
#4
I think that it is erroneous to say that God has two sides or two faces. He is constant and unchanging, but has a covenantal love which is experienced as wrath or hate for someone who rebels against Him.

Paul said that God is both kind and severe, those were his words im just agreeing with him.
Yes God is loving, he has to be to send his only son to die for people who could care less, but he is severe, as well as holy. just as we have different facets that, together, make up our whole personality- so does God.


Also, love and hate are two separate things- I just caught that at the end of your post.
love is not hate and hate is not love, there are things God does hate.

a lying tongue, haughty eyes, hands quick to shed innocent blood ( pro 6:16)
 
Last edited:
#5
Paul said that God is both kind and severe, those were his words im just agreeing with him.
Yes God is loving, he has to be to send his only son to die for people who could care less, but he is severe, as well as holy. just as we have different facets that, together, make up our whole personality- so does God.


Also, love and hate are two separate things- I just caught that at the end of your post.
love is not hate and hate is not love, there are things God does hate.

a lying tongue, haughty eyes, hands quick to shed innocent blood ( pro 6:16)
Literalists always do this. Pancakes, the word is not always useful verbatim. The scripture is a rendition of things that cannot be fully comprehended by the human mind. God is described in terms that people can understand, and such is when He is described as hating things.

Like I said, I don't think that it is accurate to say that God at all changes. He is constant, and I believe His love and wrath are opposite sides of the same function. There is a very weighty patristic tradition that agrees with that assessment also.

And if God hates, and hate is different than love, you've go a real problem with the verse "God is Love".
 
#7
And if God hates, and hate is different than love, you've go a real problem with the verse "God is Love".
Maybe. However, I think when one really understands the attributes of God, they will understand that because God is love, He must hate what is evil.

An example would be, if I love children, then I must hate pedophilia. God is a just God, and He loves all that is good. Yes, there is a verse that says "God is love," but there are many verses that talks about His righteous hate.

"There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him" - Proverbs 6:16

"Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” - Romans 9:13
 
#9
Literalists always do this. Pancakes, the word is not always useful verbatim. The scripture is a rendition of things that cannot be fully comprehended by the human mind. God is described in terms that people can understand, and such is when He is described as hating things.

Like I said, I don't think that it is accurate to say that God at all changes. He is constant, and I believe His love and wrath are opposite sides of the same function. There is a very weighty patristic tradition that agrees with that assessment also.

And if God hates, and hate is different than love, you've go a real problem with the verse "God is Love".

All I said was ,God is severe...the apolstle Paul who was inspired by God wrote that.... so you can take it up with him if you like.

All i
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#10
However, I think when one really understands the attributes of God, they will understand that because God is love, He must hate what is evil."


yes! this is what I was getting at, but where said better than I could. I hope Mmurphy understands, I was just saying that many are so focused on his love ...if you tell them no body is good not one, it might trip them up...I know it tripped me :p I thought I was good_ didn't hurt anyone..... or about the things he hates, you might lose them altogether.

I just think its important to focus on every facet of God's character, not only the characteristics we like _which is love( which I understand, in a broken dog eat dog world love is really in demand.)
 
Last edited:
#11
I just have a question for the OP, how can god say I never knew you to someone who- let's say- heals the sick and really work miracles?


I think I know the answer but I'd like to see what others have to say.✴
 
#12
I just have a question for the OP, how can god say I never knew you to someone who- let's say- heals the sick and really work miracles?


I think I know the answer but I'd like to see what others have to say.✴
The same way He can say 'who touched me'. Thousands of people were touching Him. His disciples thought He was mad when He said it. Luke 8:45 "Who touched me?" Jesus asked. When they all denied it, Peter said, "Master, the people are crowding and pressing against you.
 
#13
He cannot stand sin, or its presence.
The real issue is he sees ALL sin as sin.

He does not grade sin like men do.

To God, theft is just as sinful as murder, rape, adultery and gossip.

To men they will justify things and grade them.

The thief will say I am not as bad as a rapist. The rapist will say he is not as bad as a murderer. And the woman that gossips says I am nowhere near the others.

God sees it ALL the same. Sin.
 
#14
He is constant and unchanging
This is one of those ideas that Christians harp upon and it makes me wonder.

If God did not change at all, why did he allow governments when he knew they were bad?
Why did he let Moses change the law to allow divorce?
Why did God not stick to the Law and let all perish but instead sent Jesus to save us?
Why did he change the Order of Melchizedek for Aaron then to Levi and then back to Melchizedek?

Are these not changes?
 
#15
This is one of those ideas that Christians harp upon and it makes me wonder.

If God did not change at all, why did he allow governments when he knew they were bad?
Why did he let Moses change the law to allow divorce?
Why did God not stick to the Law and let all perish but instead sent Jesus to save us?
Why did he change the Order of Melchizedek for Aaron then to Levi and then back to Melchizedek?

Are these not changes?
Your question is going to lead us into a bit of a theoretical discussion. We can't ever fully comprehend the divine will, but suffice today God indeed willed such things to occur. At the same time willed them not to, a trait only possible if you have a dynamic God such as the Trinity.

One question I've yet to answer is whether the trinity has three agencies. That is does each person fulfill the different aspects of the will, therefore having one agency, or does each person fulfill a shared will at different stages, giving it a dynamic end.

In that sense God would change in a sense, though the will would still be the same.
 
#16
The real issue is he sees ALL sin as sin.

He does not grade sin like men do.

To God, theft is just as sinful as murder, rape, adultery and gossip.

To men they will justify things and grade them.

The thief will say I am not as bad as a rapist. The rapist will say he is not as bad as a murderer. And the woman that gossips says I am nowhere near the others.

God sees it ALL the same. Sin.
Have you got scripture for that? Scripture tells me that the King ordained that a thief got His hands chopped off and a murderer stoned to death.
 
#17
The real issue is he sees ALL sin as sin.

He does not grade sin like men do.

To God, theft is just as sinful as murder, rape, adultery and gossip.

To men they will justify things and grade them.

The thief will say I am not as bad as a rapist. The rapist will say he is not as bad as a murderer. And the woman that gossips says I am nowhere near the others.

God sees it ALL the same. Sin.
I accept the Catholic doctrine that distinguishes mortal and venial sin. Not really intended to produce a hierarchy of sin but rather a test to determine if you serve sin. If you do, then you can't also serve God and must repent.
 
#18
I just have a question for the OP, how can god say I never knew you to someone who- let's say- heals the sick and really work miracles?


I think I know the answer but I'd like to see what others have to say.✴
Pancakes, as I read it, these unfortunates protest that they do all these good things, but....Jesus does not acknowledge their claims.
He does not confirm their claims by saying "Yes I know you did, but you failed on the following....." He simply ignores their claims which to me is as good as dismissing their claims as false, but in a way that prevents further argument.
 
#19
I just have a question for the OP,
how can god say I never knew you to someone who- let's say- heals the sick and really work miracles?
IMO, it is a knowing as in a very personal, even intimate, way.
Years ago, someone said this "knowing" meant "approved of", as in "I never knew (approved of) you".
I thought it was interesting, but everyone seems to disagree violently with him about this.