Personally Knowing Both Father And Son Is Required For Salvation!

[Major]

I just have a question for the OP, how can god say I never knew you to someone who- let's say- heals the sick and really work miracles?


I think I know the answer but I'd like to see what others have to say.✴

Speaking of false ministers who “preach another Jesus,” Paul wrote in 1 Corth. 11:4, & 13-15..........
“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works”.

What is one of the possible ways that Satan would make his ministers appear as true ministers of God? By demonstrating certain “miracles,” including acts of apparent healings as described in Rev. 13:11-14.

 

[Major]

I accept the Catholic doctrine that distinguishes mortal and venial sin. Not really intended to produce a hierarchy of sin but rather a test to determine if you serve sin. If you do, then you can't also serve God and must repent.

What is the Bible verses that confirm your opinion?

 

[Major]

This is one of those ideas that Christians harp upon and it makes me wonder.

If God did not change at all, why did he allow governments when he knew they were bad?
Why did he let Moses change the law to allow divorce?
Why did God not stick to the Law and let all perish but instead sent Jesus to save us?
Why did he change the Order of Melchizedek for Aaron then to Levi and then back to Melchizedek?

Are these not changes?

NO!

God can not and does not change!
Malachi 3:6 declares...........
“I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.”

James 1:17 says........
“Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.”

Numbers 23:19..........
“God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and then not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?”

The Scriptures that are interpreted as God seeming to change His mind are human attempts to explain the actions of God. God was going to do something, but instead did something else. To us, that sounds like a change. But to God, who is omniscient and sovereign, it is not a change. God always knew what He was going to do. God does what He needs to do to cause humanity to fulfill His perfect plan.

Isaiah 46:10-11................
“…declaring the end from the beginning, and from the past things which were not done, saying, My purpose shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure … What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do”.

How can we, sinners argue with a holy God????

If you recall, God threatened Nineveh with destruction, knowing that it would cause Nineveh to repent. God threatened Israel with destruction, knowing that Moses would intercede. God does not regret His decisions, but He is saddened by some of what man sometimes does in response to His decisions. God does not change His mind but rather acts consistently with His Word in response to our actions.

No, God does not change His mind. These verses assert that God is unchanging and unchangeable.

 

[Major]

I accept the Catholic doctrine that distinguishes mortal and venial sin. Not really intended to produce a hierarchy of sin but rather a test to determine if you serve sin. If you do, then you can't also serve God and must repent.

James 2:..........
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.”If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

 

[MMurphy]

What is the Bible verses that confirm your opinion?

There is a verse, pertaining to wealth, that one cannot serve to masters. Paul speaks also about serving sin or serving God.

This is probably not a point we will come to consensus on, though, because I believe a person needs to try not to sin and if one does not try then that means that they're serving sin and not God and so have in a sense denied His grace.

Mortal sin is a test to see if someone has turned away from God and denied His grace, it consists of a (1) grave matter (2) willful knowledge (3) deliberate consent. In my opinion, it is a sin that one does not repent of, and that is especially evident in "deliberate consent". Many, however, incorrectly place more emphasis on "grave matter".

This conclusion is drawn from an analysis of Biblical doctrine through the lens of sacred tradition.

Though the scripture you posted indicates there is no hierarchy of sin, old testament passages prescribing different punishments for different sins can and have been used to establish a hierarchy of sorts. And in any case many evangelicals and baptists, and from previous posts I would assume you (Major) are in this line as well, that homosexuality is at the far end of a continuum of depravity, and constitutes a bottom rung on the ladder of sins.

 

[autumn oddity]

Speaking of false ministers who “preach another Jesus,” Paul wrote in 1 Corth. 11:4, & 13-15..........
“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works”.

What is one of the possible ways that Satan would make his ministers appear as true ministers of God? By demonstrating certain “miracles,” including acts of apparent healings as described in Rev. 13:11-14.

Yah, it reminds me of how gods gifts are irrevocable despite the condition of our hearts or rebellion.
Bishop eddie long and cult leader jim jones, comes to mind.

Still, they had to know jesus at one point and went south...way dwn south.

 

[Dave Lucas]

We can't ever fully comprehend the divine will

One question I've yet to answer is whether the trinity has three agencies. That is does each person fulfill the different aspects of the will, therefore having one agency, or does each person fulfill a shared will at different stages, giving it a dynamic end.

In that sense God would change in a sense, though the will would still be the same.[/QUOTE]

Nah, sorry, please note for example Proverbs 16:6.
Butski, thanks for your opinion anyway.

6 By steadfast love and faithfulness iniquity is atoned for,
and by the fear of the Lord one turns away from evil.

How is that gradation of sin?

That is The King's rule of go and sin no more.

Perhaps you have the wrong verse?

 

[Major]

There is a verse, pertaining to wealth, that one cannot serve to masters. Paul speaks also about serving sin or serving God.

This is probably not a point we will come to consensus on, though, because I believe a person needs to try not to sin and if one does not try then that means that they're serving sin and not God and so have in a sense denied His grace.

Mortal sin is a test to see if someone has turned away from God and denied His grace, it consists of a (1) grave matter (2) willful knowledge (3) deliberate consent. In my opinion, it is a sin that one does not repent of, and that is especially evident in "deliberate consent". Many, however, incorrectly place more emphasis on "grave matter".

This conclusion is drawn from an analysis of Biblical doctrine through the lens of sacred tradition.

Though the scripture you posted indicates there is no hierarchy of sin, old testament passages prescribing different punishments for different sins can and have been used to establish a hierarchy of sorts. And in any case many evangelicals and baptists, and from previous posts I would assume you (Major) are in this line as well, that homosexuality is at the far end of a continuum of depravity, and constitutes a bottom rung on the ladder of sins.

Allow me to ask you this. If you are playing baseball and you miss the ball pitched to you by a foot, is it still a strike?
If you miss the pitch by an inch, is it still a strike?
If you miss it by a hair from your chinney chin chin, is it still a strike?

You see, in James 2:10, the word in Greek is "patio" which means literally to stumble or trip. Therefore James, for the sake of argument awards the party pure motives, granting that the sin appears accidental. The result...GUILITY OF ALL . You see it is still a strike no matter how far you miss it by because we have missed the make because of sin. One who shows partiality becomes a transgressor just as readily as if he had murdered someone or committed adultery.

Rom. 3:23..."ALL have sinned and come SORT of Gods approval".

Can these two opposing viewpoints be reconciled? YES!
We can clearly see that some sins are greater than others, but that any sin will prevent us from going to heaven without the saving grace and sacrifice of Jesus.
Essentially, any one sin is sufficient to keep us from God, but all sins are not the same.

 

[Abdicate]

Yep, God will SORT it all out Couldn't help it

 

[MMurphy]

Allow me to ask you this. If you are playing baseball and you miss the ball pitched to you by a foot, is it still a strike?
If you miss the pitch by an inch, is it still a strike?
If you miss it by a hair from your chinney chin chin, is it still a strike?

You see, in James 2:10, the word in Greek is "patio" which means literally to stumble or trip. Therefore James, for the sake of argument awards the party pure motives, granting that the sin appears accidental. The result...GUILITY OF ALL . You see it is still a strike no matter how far you miss it by because we have missed the make because of sin. One who shows partiality becomes a transgressor just as readily as if he had murdered someone or committed adultery.

Rom. 3:23..."ALL have sinned and come SORT of Gods approval".

Can these two opposing viewpoints be reconciled? YES!
We can clearly see that some sins are greater than others, but that any sin will prevent us from going to heaven without the saving grace and sacrifice of Jesus.
Essentially, any one sin is sufficient to keep us from God, but all sins are not the same.

I don't think I said anything to contradict you, Major. I don't really believe in the hierarchy of sins, as I said, but I know from personal experience, if an attractive woman walks by and I lustfully glance at her, I feel a little guilty. When I deliberately plan and carry out into execution a sin that I have premeditated, I feel a lot more guilty. As I said, I don't think gravity is as important, its deliberate consent.

In my personal theology, we are protected from venial sins by the nature of our faith and the grace of God, but when it comes to Mortal sin it is a direct offense that we plan to carry out. It is an act of rebellion so to speak, and repentance in that case is immediately necessary.

Of course, if someone does not have faith, all of their sins are mortal.

 

[Osterloh]

Dave, sorry the correct passage is Proverbs 6:16-19.

 

[Osterloh]

Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door and knock.
If anyone hears My voice and opens the door,
I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.”

This is an invitation to the church only!
This lukewarm Laodicean church was in need of this invitation!
This knowing of Jesus in an intimate manner is of the utmost necessity in these last days!
And you can receive as much of this as you want.
Jesus is waiting on you!